[inspiron1]

(Original post by Flash7)
I've met a lot of Muslims who are doing the same.

But this thread is about Christians ...

[tssf_skye]

(Original post by Spaz Man)
All sins are not equal to one another. Where did you get that from?

pretty sure it's in the bible, i could be wrong though.

[Chief Wiggum]

(Original post by tssf_skye)
Are you honestly trying to argue this point?
Tell me then, that you have never lied, Drunk alcohol, been rude to your parents/anyone or swore amoungst many other things.

Now i don't know if you're a christian not, but you're showing your laughable naviety of the religion, it's actually pretty hilarious.
Every christian has sinned/done something that the bible says you shouldn't do - it's the same in any religon..no one is perfect?
Under the idea of what a hypocrite is that you're portraying every religous person in the world would be a 'hypocrite'. It's not about being a hypocrite, in life everyone makes mistakes whether it's on religous terms or not.
The whole idea of following a faith is to try and follow it, not be flawless.

Typical opinion.

If a christian is consistently lying/getting drunk/having sex before marriage etc, then they quite clearly aren't really a christian, they're just saying that they are one.

[CherryCherryBoomBoom]

(Original post by sarahoo)
Not a Christian, but going to go ahead and point out that it also doesn't say it is permitted to play video games, drive a car, bungee jump, or use a computer in the bible, you have constructed a really ****ty argument.

And to be fair, it doesn't say anywhere in the bible that premarital sex is prohibited. It says sexual immorality is, but it doesn't define that, and that's a completely subjective viewpoint.

(Original post by Architecture-er)
Interesting, apparently the Bible doesn't actually prohibit sex before marriage, only sexual immorality..

Obviously I don't know much about how to interpret that.. maybe 'no sex before marriage' is a safe way to prevent sexual immorality, like one-nighters and the like. What if you truly, honestly, wanted to spend the rest of your life with someone, and so any sex between you both wouldn't carry emotions of sexual immorality?

Personally not had sex yet, but I can see there's a difference between sex through desire and lust, and sex between two people in love. Not sure where I stand on the issue, really.

Yeah, good points. After all, there's a big difference between only having sex with your trusting partner in a loving monogamous relationship as an act of love, and having casual sex with lots of randomers every week. A lot of Christians I know do have sex before marriage, but it does tend to be of the former nature.

[tssf_skye]

(Original post by Chief Wiggum)
If a christian is consistently lying/getting drunk/having sex before marriage etc, then they quite clearly aren't really a christian, they're just saying that they are one.

true, but the OP didn't say consistently. But yeah, i agree.

[concubine]

(Original post by Spaz Man)
Paradise isn't the primary reason behind doing good. As the Qur'an describes: "good besets good". It's a wonderful continuous incentive and justification for good while praising good deeds for their goodness by themselves simultaneously. In Islam, you don't recieve sins for bad thoughts or even bad intentions or even bad deeds without intentions behind them.

However, you do recieve rewards for good thoughts, more for good intentions even if the intention isn't carried out and even more for goods deeds, even if they weren't intended. If that isn't mercy, I don't know what is.

But you want 'justice', you want a 'hell', you want people to avoid doing bad things not because they themselves think the action to be bad, but because they fear the eternal consequences of the action. If that's not handing over the responsibility for your own actions to 'someone' else, I don't know what is. You have this idea of heaven because you can't accept the reality of things - that good does not always beget good (I presume you meant beget, not beset).

Non-Muslims/irreligious people don't need any more incentive than the fact that they want to help others. The base level of 'goodness'. The good behaviour prescribed by any religion will never reach the level of sincerity of the irreligious desire to do good.

[miser]

It says not to commit adultery; it doesn't explicitly mention sex before marriage.

[rmpr97]

(Original post by Really_Gonna_Rock_)
The bottom line: either you choose to follow the rules or your religion, or you can't call yourself a member of that religion. You can't pick and choose which rules apply to you and which don't, just to suit your own needs.

Are you wearing anything right now? If so, was that not the second sin Adam & Eve committed?

[viriol]

(Original post by tssf_skye)
pretty sure it's in the bible, i could be wrong though.

It's not. That would be ridiculous: stealing for food being the same as killing 10000 jews...

[Spaz Man]

(Original post by concubine)
But you want 'justice', you want a 'hell', you want people to avoid doing bad things not because they themselves think the action to be bad, but because they fear the eternal consequences of the action. If that's not handing over the responsibility for your own actions to 'someone' else, I don't know what is. You have this idea of heaven because you can't accept the reality of things - that good does not always beget good (I presume you meant beget, not beset).

Non-Muslims/irreligious people don't need any more incentive than the fact that they want to help others. The base level of 'goodness'. The good behaviour prescribed by any religion will never reach the level of sincerity of the irreligious desire to do good.

But you have to ask yourself why non-religious people have a desire to do good. It's to make themselves feel good. The concept of natural conscience in Islam explains why people feel a certain way good actions.

[hannah60000]

(Original post by sarahoo)
The bible does not say that.

The Bible say no fornication, one of ten commandments. Fornication is sex outside marriage therefore translated to no sex before marriage.

[chrissy dee]

(Original post by kashim91)
As a practising Muslim I second this. OP, please get a life, if your a Muslim, spend your time educating yourself about the deen, and the etiquettes of liaising with your brothers and sisters in Islam, as well as you're brothers and sisters in humanity. There is many forbidden things that Muslims aren't supposed to do yet they do it. Shaving is forbidden, but loads of Muslims shave and start fingerpointing at women who don't wear hijab. The vast majority of these people are deluded, please don't make yourself one of these people. In some Muslim country's alcohol and some other things that are forbidden in Islam are legal. Before you change the world, you should change yourself.

Interesting, why are muslims not allowed to shave.

[chrissy dee]

the shakey thing about having sex with a loving partner before marriage is that the relationship can still end.

[Really_Gonna_Rock_]

(Original post by chrissy dee)
the shakey thing about having sex with a loving partner before marriage is that the relationship can still end.

A marriage can also end, you know. Especially in this day and age.

[viriol]

(Original post by hannah60000)
The Bible say no fornication, one of ten commandments. Fornication is sex outside marriage therefore translated to no sex before marriage.

1. None of the ten commandments originally says "no fornication". As has been said, only "no adultery".

2. In the New Testament, "fornication" is used as the translation of "Porneia", a greek word meaning a marriage is invalid.

[sarahoo]

(Original post by hannah60000)
The Bible say no fornication, one of ten commandments. Fornication is sex outside marriage therefore translated to no sex before marriage.

That is not one of the commandments.

[johnaulich]

OP,

Mind your own damn business. Haven't you ever heard the quote "first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye?"

Seems I know your own holy book better than you.

[concubine]

(Original post by Spaz Man)
But you have to ask yourself why non-religious people have a desire to do good. It's to make themselves feel good. The concept of natural conscience in Islam explains why people feel a certain way good actions.

And there are evolutionary explanations for people wishing to do things for others even if they are disadvantageous to themselves. 'Altruism' is probably one of the most oxymoronic words in the English language.

Do you deny the evolutionary basis for this, or do you think more along the lines that God set everything up so that we'd evolve in this way? Because I don't really have anything to say to someone that believes we were created as we are now. To an extent I can understand, given that most people were brought up in X faith, there is a God/s and he set up the conditions for our evolution into our current form but... That's about as far as I can go. >_>


And surely, if you put all credit in the hands of God/Allah/whatever... You've immediately discredited his omnipotence. Because he'd have made us all 'correctly', and we would all be good.

[Bright.Inspiration.]

(Original post by concubine)
But you want 'justice', you want a 'hell', you want people to avoid doing bad things not because they themselves think the action to be bad, but because they fear the eternal consequences of the action. If that's not handing over the responsibility for your own actions to 'someone' else, I don't know what is. You have this idea of heaven because you can't accept the reality of things - that good does not always beget good (I presume you meant beget, not beset).

Non-Muslims/irreligious people don't need any more incentive than the fact that they want to help others. The base level of 'goodness'. The good behaviour prescribed by any religion will never reach the level of sincerity of the irreligious desire to do good.

Well said

[kashim91]

(Original post by chrissy dee)
Interesting, why are muslims not allowed to shave.

The beard is part of the natural disposition of a man, it's what differentiates them from women. Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) ordered Muslim men to trim their moustaches and grow their beards. He himself had a long beard, as did many of the prophets, including Jesus(Isa), and John(Yahya) (Pbuh) I come from an Asian background where people believe you should only be religious when your an old person, some people in my own family have ridiculed me for growing my beard, telling me I'm too young. People say that some Muslim women are forced to wear a headscarf. While this is true, in some cases many Muslims parents children up beat them up for wearing it or even wanting to wear it. This has also been an issue with people converting to Islam, and is also a frequently occurrence when the child becomes more religiously conscious than their parents. And their apparent 'justification' for this is that the child is too young. I'm not saying Muslims aren't oppressed, they are, I view myself as oppressed for being ridiculed by my own family for wanting to practise my religion. I just think that the west needs to see that there's more to the story than just the surface facts, and the underlying issues need to be addressed. As a side point, Sikh men are also forbidden to shave, so Islam isn't the only religion that forbids it. Sorry for such a chunky reply