[Okashira]

If you tell how He did it. I agree with everyone who says it is a cop out, but it is only so if we leave it at those words and call it a day. If God really did create the universe and life, saying He did so is the correct answer. Knowing He did it would be the first step in answering every question we have about the universe. Ultimately people see those words as the final step in answering our questions about life, but it should be seen as the beginning step.

Let's look at this concept for a second. Imagine we were to come across a big robot in a warehouse somewhere. The inventor of the robot is no where to be found. Also the blue prints for the construction of the robot are missing. In the end, all we have is the robot. So we look at the robot inside out, and try to determine how it was made. We gain a lot of knowledge concerning it's make up, and even developed our own construction based off this robot. Yet our copy of the robot is not quite like the original. We discover that the technology used in this robot is alien to anything known in the rest of the world. That it was far advanced, and could not be fully duplicated.

So even though we have the robot before our eyes, and studied it from top to bottom, it's just not enough to get the full scope on how it's made and it's origin. Yet if we knew who made the machine, that would be a grand step in discovering everything concerning it. How it was made, what are it's capabilities, and so on. Now all we have to do is ask the one who made the robot, find his manuals and blue prints, and test them out to prove his/her authenticity. Once tested and proven, we can truly say this person made the robot. It would be the same way with this universe. If we Christians ask God how He made the universe, test out His information, we can truly prove that God created this place. Making the term "God did it", valid.

[Roy064]

If the 'copy' of the robot isn't like the original, it is then not a copy is it?

[Aaaaaaaargh!]

(Original post by Okashira)
"God did it" isn't a cop out

Oh yes, yes it is.

[Okashira]

I think you guys jumped the gun. I did preference this with if. If God created this place, then saying He did would be the first step in solving all our questions about this place. We would find answers we would have never come upon just by examining and observing on our own.

[Gofre]

Simply moving from "god did it" to "god did it by..." does absolutely nothing to address the problems atheists have with the former, a complete lack of supporting evidence. Telling us how god made the universe is still completely moot if you aren't able to back up your claims. This is still the god of the gaps argument, just a slightly more creative answer.

[Aspiringlawstudent]

Yes it is.

[Reformed2010]

(Original post by Okashira)
If you tell how He did it. I agree with everyone who says it is a cop out, but it is only so if we leave it at those words and call it a day. If God really did create the universe and life, saying He did so is the correct answer. Knowing He did it would be the first step in answering every question we have about the universe. Ultimately people see those words as the final step in answering our questions about life, but it should be seen as the beginning step.

Let's look at this concept for a second. Imagine we were to come across a big robot in a warehouse somewhere. The inventor of the robot is no where to be found. Also the blue prints for the construction of the robot are missing. In the end, all we have is the robot. So we look at the robot inside out, and try to determine how it was made. We gain a lot of knowledge concerning it's make up, and even developed our own construction based off this robot. Yet our copy of the robot is not quite like the original. We discover that the technology used in this robot is alien to anything known in the rest of the world. That it was far advanced, and could not be fully duplicated.

So even though we have the robot before our eyes, and studied it from top to bottom, it's just not enough to get the full scope on how it's made and it's origin. Yet if we knew who made the machine, that would be a grand step in discovering everything concerning it. How it was made, what are it's capabilities, and so on. Now all we have to do is ask the one who made the robot, find his manuals and blue prints, and test them out to prove his/her authenticity. Once tested and proven, we can truly say this person made the robot. It would be the same way with this universe. If we Christians ask God how He made the universe, test out His information, we can truly prove that God created this place. Making the term "God did it", valid.

...Well go on then.

[PandyAndy]

You've just brought the watchmaker argument into the modern world. Well played,nearly had me

[Its A Catch 22]

(Original post by jennaz77)
Funny how no one has actually challenged the OP. The argument given is quite a sensible one. Atheists are the most insecure in their religion I have ever come across. They always rant and rant about their inner questions because they need others to agree to feel that their beliefs are validated. Meanwhile Christians, Muslims etc are more quiet and secure about their beliefs. And when a post like this is written, all athiests can do is try and ridicule, knowing fellow athiests will join in.

Let me try and explain the issue here... The OP's post relies essentially on the idea that saying 'God did it' is not a cop out assuming you can prove how he did it. The problem, however, is that there's a distinct lack of evidence to support God having done it, effectively rendering the point moot. OP's argument looks like this: assuming 1, 2 is true, and therefore, 3 is not a cop out. We can fill in the numbers with whatever we want, for example:

Assuming we have a chat with a fat, balding fairy named Gavin (he has tiny little wings and wears a white vest all the time too), and he can conclusively prove that he created the universe - the statement 'Gavin did it' is true - and therefore, saying 'Gavin did it' is not a cop out.

Do you see why it's not a very helpful argument? Also, as funny as they were to read, your assertions about atheists, based on random anecdotal evidence you've accumulated aren't very helpful either.

[chickenonsteroids]

You've just brought in the watchmaker argument. But replaced watches with robots. It's still pretty poor but I like robots.

Don't you realise there's a difference between man made creation and natural process? The same difference means that you can't say that trees had to be created.

Saying 'god did it' is lazy in the sense that it doesn't actually answer anything useful. If anything, it can stunt our learning. If you say 'god did it' and leave the research there then what's the point? Imagine if we did that for all the natural processes that happen now? If you said god did it and explained how then you'd have a better case but you haven't. It just reduces itself to assertions based on the idea that they seem the most rational. It doesn't really aid anything imo.

(Original post by jennaz77)
Funny how no one has actually challenged the OP. The argument given is quite a sensible one. Atheists are the most insecure in their religion I have ever come across. They always rant and rant about their inner questions because they need others to agree to feel that their beliefs are validated. Meanwhile Christians, Muslims etc are more quiet and secure about their beliefs. And when a post like this is written, all athiests can do is try and ridicule, knowing fellow athiests will join in.

Atheism isn't a religion. I don't quite understand where that came from. Also, Christians and Muslims aren't always the quiest about their beliefs lol and being secure about their belief doesn't mean it's true. Your belief in something doesn't gauge how much of a fact it is. It's the evidence and justified argument behind it which then leads to a secure belief.

[Maker]

(Original post by jennaz77)
Funny how no one has actually challenged the OP. The argument given is quite a sensible one. Atheists are the most insecure in their religion I have ever come across. They always rant and rant about their inner questions because they need others to agree to feel that their beliefs are validated. Meanwhile Christians, Muslims etc are more quiet and secure about their beliefs. And when a post like this is written, all athiests can do is try and ridicule, knowing fellow athiests will join in.

Atheism is a religion in the same way not playing chess is a hobby which means I must have millions of hobbies.

[L'Evil Fish]

The Design Argument... The universe is too complex to have been created by big bang...

It's like saying if you've never seen a spider in your life, and didn't know anything regarding their existence and you happened to have stumbled across one of their webs, what would you think? Was it created or just there....

My favourite argument against atheists saying "Who created God, and who created the God that created that God" is the sniper argument

[Maker]

(Original post by Okashira)
If you tell how He did it. I agree with everyone who says it is a cop out, but it is only so if we leave it at those words and call it a day. If God really did create the universe and life, saying He did so is the correct answer. Knowing He did it would be the first step in answering every question we have about the universe. Ultimately people see those words as the final step in answering our questions about life, but it should be seen as the beginning step.

Let's look at this concept for a second. Imagine we were to come across a big robot in a warehouse somewhere. The inventor of the robot is no where to be found. Also the blue prints for the construction of the robot are missing. In the end, all we have is the robot. So we look at the robot inside out, and try to determine how it was made. We gain a lot of knowledge concerning it's make up, and even developed our own construction based off this robot. Yet our copy of the robot is not quite like the original. We discover that the technology used in this robot is alien to anything known in the rest of the world. That it was far advanced, and could not be fully duplicated.

So even though we have the robot before our eyes, and studied it from top to bottom, it's just not enough to get the full scope on how it's made and it's origin. Yet if we knew who made the machine, that would be a grand step in discovering everything concerning it. How it was made, what are it's capabilities, and so on. Now all we have to do is ask the one who made the robot, find his manuals and blue prints, and test them out to prove his/her authenticity. Once tested and proven, we can truly say this person made the robot. It would be the same way with this universe. If we Christians ask God how He made the universe, test out His information, we can truly prove that God created this place. Making the term "God did it", valid.

This is just an argument from ignorance; I don't know what did X so it must be god. If thats the best you can come up with, then many years od education have been wasted on you or alternatively, you have been brain washed by religion or both.

[S-man10]

(Original post by jennaz77)
Funny how no one has actually challenged the OP. The argument given is quite a sensible one. Atheists are the most insecure in their religion I have ever come across. They always rant and rant about their inner questions because they need others to agree to feel that their beliefs are validated. Meanwhile Christians, Muslims etc are more quiet and secure about their beliefs. And when a post like this is written, all athiests can do is tr.y and ridicule, knowing fellow athiests will join in.

Christians and muslims go around reminding everyone that there are a billion followers of each, and therefore the sheer number of people make the religion automatically true. And then they also need to pray regularly to a God to remind thenselves of him. If that isn't insecurity, i don't know what is

[garfeeled]

(Original post by Okashira)
If you tell how He did it. I agree with everyone who says it is a cop out, but it is only so if we leave it at those words and call it a day. If God really did create the universe and life, saying He did so is the correct answer. Knowing He did it would be the first step in answering every question we have about the universe. Ultimately people see those words as the final step in answering our questions about life, but it should be seen as the beginning step.

Let's look at this concept for a second. Imagine we were to come across a big robot in a warehouse somewhere. The inventor of the robot is no where to be found. Also the blue prints for the construction of the robot are missing. In the end, all we have is the robot. So we look at the robot inside out, and try to determine how it was made. We gain a lot of knowledge concerning it's make up, and even developed our own construction based off this robot. Yet our copy of the robot is not quite like the original. We discover that the technology used in this robot is alien to anything known in the rest of the world. That it was far advanced, and could not be fully duplicated.

So even though we have the robot before our eyes, and studied it from top to bottom, it's just not enough to get the full scope on how it's made and it's origin. Yet if we knew who made the machine, that would be a grand step in discovering everything concerning it. How it was made, what are it's capabilities, and so on. Now all we have to do is ask the one who made the robot, find his manuals and blue prints, and test them out to prove his/her authenticity. Once tested and proven, we can truly say this person made the robot. It would be the same way with this universe. If we Christians ask God how He made the universe, test out His information, we can truly prove that God created this place. Making the term "God did it", valid.

so your point is we can prove that god made the universe if we had complete understanding of the universe and were able to ring up god to ask questions. If we could do that we would arguably be god. Also who says it god of christianity could be allah or brahma?

God did it is still a cop, knowing everything about the universe as it is won't tell us its origin.

[Gofre]

(Original post by jennaz77)
Funny how no one has actually challenged the OP. The argument given is quite a sensible one. Atheists are the most insecure in their religion I have ever come across. They always rant and rant about their inner questions because they need others to agree to feel that their beliefs are validated. Meanwhile Christians, Muslims etc are more quiet and secure about their beliefs. And when a post like this is written, all athiests can do is try and ridicule, knowing fellow athiests will join in.

I think I rebutted it quite soundly.

[Alex17595]

(Original post by Reformed2010)
...Well go on then.

Is he expecting some-sort of scientific formula for a creating a universe

[jordanosborn]

Yes it really is. This is the ultimate line of defence for the religious if humanity hasn't worked something out it was automatically god who did it, ridiculous. We can explain a lot about the universe but there are still gaps in human knowledge resorting to god did it will stifle creativity and future advancements. Imagine if the great scientists of the world just decided that god did it and that was the best explanation. We'd all be living in caves and dying at the age of 20.

[Hypocrism]

(Original post by jennaz77)
Of course athiests will neg this. That's the religion that everyone on TSR seems to follow anyway.

Atheism isn't a religion.

And making anyone who opposes atheism look wrong or silly is like a number one rule for athiests.

Because it's just so easy!

[Insanity514]

We don't understand how the robot was made because we as humans do not have the answers to everything...yet. Just because the robot is complex we shouldn't assume a creator. It is our insufficient knowledge that leads us to create a less perfect robot than the original, and we will keep getting closer gaining a knowledge of how the robot was built every decade and soon we will know exactly how the robot was made. This is what is reflected in the world around us not what you are proposing.

Saying "God did it" is always a cop out even if the speaker didn't mean it to be, and that's because we can never link worldly events to the actions of a creator because there is no evidence of anything supreme interfering with worldly events. Of course some things are unexplained but the jump between lets say a miracle occurring and linking the miracle to God is too big a jump I'm afraid. Instead of saying God did it, go out there, research the event, talk to people and an answer that does not include the supernatural will emerge.