"You"ll earn much more money for less effort"
Discussion about medicine applications and medicine.
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"You"ll earn much more money for less effort"What I'm not asking or stating in this thread is that it is "good" or "rational" to pick a degree based on the money you'll get at the end of it. What I am in fact querying is the statement that you hear very often about it being irrational to go in to medicine if all you want is money; as you can get more money for less effort doing something else. What jobs exactly are people thinking of when they say this? As all the ones I can think of require rather a lot of effort, are not exactly in abundance and are generally occupied by the best people from the best universities. If there really was another job that could guarantee the pay of a doctor then people would flock to it no?
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Re: "You"ll earn much more money for less effort"Medicine wise - if you screw up someone will die - but if you screw up as a banker then you get a slightly smaller bonus.(Original post by dontreply)
What I'm not asking or stating in this thread is that it is "good" or "rational" to pick a degree based on the money you'll get at the end of it. What I am in fact querying is the statement that you hear very often about it being irrational to go in to medicine if all you want is money; as you can get more money for less effort doing something else. What jobs exactly are people thinking of when they say this? As all the ones I can think of require rather a lot of effort, are not exactly in abundance and are generally occupied by the best people from the best universities. If there really was another job that could guarantee the pay of a doctor then people would flock to it no?
Aside from that, doing something you really enjoy tends to feel like less effort - even effortless. Like when children get completely absorbed in their toys for hours on end.
So if you really want loads of money but want it easy make your money doing something you love. If training people to be fit and muscular absorbs you become the next Paul Stridgeon - don't be an investment banker or a GP. Equally if mechanics and structures really get you going, become a top notch engineer instead of a fashion designer, a lawyer or a business consultant.
Plus money is all about what you spend it on. If you see yourself being an expert wine taster and taking 6 month trips abroad while having a nice apartment and all the cultural trappings, don't end up with a Stepford wife, 4 kids, and a salary eating 25 year mortgage on a middle class house in the home counties.
Also lots of careers are outside of the TSR bubble and rarely mentioned - the music, entertainment, PR and events industries don't need a degree at all. Plus you can have the money for the lifestyle i set out above working wholly working class jobs if you avoid the kids and suburbia. -
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Re: "You"ll earn much more money for less effort"What I'm arguing is that people make it out as though you can just walk in to high paying jobs just like that. Your mention if that Paul Strigeon fellow says it all really, he is one man out of however many thousands who strive to get that one top job, there are of course more bankers, but then there are more extremely able people who want to be bankers. There are obviously careers outside what is generally mentioned on tsr but it's hardly as though people are suddenely going to be going "oh yeah, X actor makes millions of dollars, why didn't it think of that".(Original post by t0ffee)
Medicine wise - if you screw up someone will die - but if you screw up as a banker then you get a slightly smaller bonus.
Aside from that, doing something you really enjoy tends to feel like less effort - even effortless. Like when children get completely absorbed in their toys for hours on end.
So if you really want loads of money but want it easy make your money doing something you love. If training people to be fit and muscular absorbs you become the next Paul Stridgeon - don't be an investment banker or a GP. Equally if mechanics and structures really get you going, become a top notch engineer instead of a fashion designer, a lawyer or a business consultant.
Plus money is all about what you spend it on. If you see yourself being an expert wine taster and taking 6 month trips abroad while having a nice apartment and all the cultural trappings, don't end up with a Stepford wife, 4 kids, and a salary eating 25 year mortgage on a middle class house in the home counties.
Also lots of careers are outside of the TSR bubble and rarely mentioned - the music, entertainment, PR and events industries don't need a degree at all. Plus you can have the money for the lifestyle i set out above working wholly working class jobs if you avoid the kids and suburbia.
What I am arguing is that it is much harder to chase money doing something other than medicine than a lot of people make it out to be. -
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Re: "You"ll earn much more money for less effort"It's obviously not easy to make money in any field -- you get paid for the effort you put in, though obviously some careers pay better than others.(Original post by dontreply)
What I'm arguing is that people make it out as though you can just walk in to high paying jobs just like that. Your mention if that Paul Strigeon fellow says it all really, he is one man out of however many thousands who strive to get that one top job, there are of course more bankers, but then there are more extremely able people who want to be bankers. There are obviously careers outside what is generally mentioned on tsr but it's hardly as though people are suddenely going to be going "oh yeah, X actor makes millions of dollars, why didn't it think of that".
What I am arguing is that it is much harder to chase money doing something other than medicine than a lot of people make it out to be.
The point is as a doctor you have people's lives in your hands and there are few other careers which offer that responsibility. By calling medicine an effort, it's obviously so in a training sense but also in a moral sense.
Is a banker's responsibility to his corporation the same as a doctor's to his patient? No way, in my opinion. -
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Re: "You"ll earn much more money for less effort"Hi there, mind asking what the error in AR was? I'm just curious(Original post by MattKneale)
It's obviously not easy to make money in any field -- you get paid for the effort you put in, though obviously some careers pay better than others.
The point is as a doctor you have people's lives in your hands and there are few other careers which offer that responsibility. By calling medicine an effort, it's obviously so in a training sense but also in a moral sense.
Is a banker's responsibility to his corporation the same as a doctor's to his patient? No way, in my opinion.
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Re: "You"ll earn much more money for less effort"I went through and completed all questions with 20 seconds to spare. At the review screen it said I had loads of incomplete questions and no time to fix it. Appealed, should find out this week or next. -
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Re: "You"ll earn much more money for less effort"Medicine pays well. That's a given. But if you consider the salary in conjunction with the responsibility, then it doesn't seem to be an extravagant amount.
It's certainly not the £300k my friends think I'll be making. They seem to think I'll be able to finance their heroin addictions in the future. Well they can piss off, heroin is expensive and I need to finance my own addiction. -
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Re: "You"ll earn much more money for less effort"Ah that's terrible man(Original post by MattKneale)
I went through and completed all questions with 20 seconds to spare. At the review screen it said I had loads of incomplete questions and no time to fix it. Appealed, should find out this week or next.
. Wish you the best in your appeal and application!.
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Re: "You"ll earn much more money for less effort"I have family members who work in finance/HR/other boring suit wearing jobs. In my experience you don't get paid a lot of money without putting in a lot of effort. People working at a high level in a bank may receive 'ridiculous' bonuses but they will be giving it their all.
If you want to make a lot of money in any field then you must be prepared to commit a great deal of time and effort. Though it may be a different kind of commitment demonstrated by doctors, I think the idea that intelligent people can just turn up at 25 and get paid mega bucks for doing naff-all is entirely false. -
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Re: "You"ll earn much more money for less effort"Yes, I would agree with you, I think.(Original post by dontreply)
What I'm arguing is that people make it out as though you can just walk in to high paying jobs just like that. Your mention if that Paul Strigeon fellow says it all really, he is one man out of however many thousands who strive to get that one top job, there are of course more bankers, but then there are more extremely able people who want to be bankers. There are obviously careers outside what is generally mentioned on tsr but it's hardly as though people are suddenely going to be going "oh yeah, X actor makes millions of dollars, why didn't it think of that".
What I am arguing is that it is much harder to chase money doing something other than medicine than a lot of people make it out to be.
In careers like law and banking, to get to the really high paying jobs, you have to be (usually) coming out of a top university, then go through competitive selection procedures. Also, the hours worked in these professions at the top end can be ridiculously long.
At least with medicine, everyone usually gets a pretty decent salary. I'm not saying medicine isn't difficult of course, I'm sure it is, but I find the comment people tend to make on these forums "if you want money, don't do medicine, other careers offer more money for less effort" to be rather inaccurate.Last edited by Chief Wiggum; 10-07-2012 at 10:27. -
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Re: "You"ll earn much more money for less effort"I don't think there are any. Medicine is pretty much the only profession where you are more or less guaranteed a high paying job just by passing exams. The only professions that reliably pay more are corporate law and investment banking, and both are harder to get into, have longer hours, and in the latter case has terrible job security. Oil and gas/mining also has some jobs that pay comparably (probably not more, for equivalent education and experience), but only because they're located in the arse end of nowhere with 12 hour shifts.(Original post by dontreply)
What I'm not asking or stating in this thread is that it is "good" or "rational" to pick a degree based on the money you'll get at the end of it. What I am in fact querying is the statement that you hear very often about it being irrational to go in to medicine if all you want is money; as you can get more money for less effort doing something else. What jobs exactly are people thinking of when they say this?
The reason for this is that medicine is a cartel. There are far fewer medical school places than there are willing and able candidates, strictly enforced by licenses controlled by doctors' trade guilds, and this drives up salaries. I don't think there's any reason most doctors should be paid more than £30-40k, in line with most non-corporate lawyers, research staff and engineers. -
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Re: "You"ll earn much more money for less effort"I am arguing that they won't walk into anything, medicine included, and that the pragmatic way to make it feel like a walk in the park is to find a job doing something they love.(Original post by dontreply)
What I'm arguing is that people make it out as though you can just walk in to high paying jobs just like that. Your mention if that Paul Strigeon fellow says it all really, he is one man out of however many thousands who strive to get that one top job, there are of course more bankers, but then there are more extremely able people who want to be bankers. There are obviously careers outside what is generally mentioned on tsr but it's hardly as though people are suddenely going to be going "oh yeah, X actor makes millions of dollars, why didn't it think of that".
What I am arguing is that it is much harder to chase money doing something other than medicine than a lot of people make it out to be.
And the hard thing with medicine is that the people you are competing with to make the most money are probably doing it for a greater reason than chasing the money. The top tranny surgeon does it because most likely he is fascinated by it. Someone like Colin Murray Parkes probably has **** loads of money, but arguably his achievements and ability as both a doctor and an author/academic are a result of genuine caring and altruism, rather than chasing money.
Its not as if they can just walk into high paying careers, its that under the premise that 'I want to make loads of money and that is all I want', what job is best for me and with that premise can I make the most money in? Because if that is all you want, you probably will not be able to pass your medical training or actually perform and do your career.Last edited by t0ffee; 10-07-2012 at 22:53. -
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Re: "You"ll earn much more money for less effort"Riiiiiiiiiiiight.(Original post by t0ffee)
And the hard thing with medicine is that the people you are competing with to make the most money are probably doing it for a greater reason than chasing the money. The top tranny surgeon does it because most likely he is fascinated by it. Someone like Colin Murray Parkes probably has **** loads of money, but arguably his achievements and ability as both a doctor and an author/academic are a result of genuine caring and altruism, rather than chasing money.
Dream on guv'nor -
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Re: "You"ll earn much more money for less effort"More BS spouted by DynamicSyngergy.(Original post by DynamicSyngery)
The reason for this is that medicine is a cartel. There are far fewer medical school places than there are willing and able candidates, strictly enforced by licenses controlled by doctors' trade guilds, and this drives up salaries. I don't think there's any reason most doctors should be paid more than £30-40k, in line with most non-corporate lawyers, research staff and engineers. -
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Re: "You"ll earn much more money for less effort"Yes clearly... this happens far too often, you've obviously hit the nail right on the head.(Original post by DynamicSyngery)
The reason for this is that medicine is a cartel. There are far fewer medical school places than there are willing and able candidates, strictly enforced by licenses controlled by doctors' trade guilds, and this drives up salaries. I don't think there's any reason most doctors should be paid more than £30-40k, in line with most non-corporate lawyers, research staff and engineers.
Except that doctor's pay doesn't get driven up other than in the same way as every other NHS employee -- through cost of living increment. Other than that the only way to improve your pay is by competing for better jobs. -
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Re: "You"ll earn much more money for less effort"I'm not saying it should be rising much faster than inflation each year, because it was a cartel in previous years too. It is rather at a permanently too high level relative to other professions.(Original post by MattKneale)
Yes clearly... this happens far too often, you've obviously hit the nail right on the head.
Except that doctor's pay doesn't get driven up other than in the same way as every other NHS employee -- through cost of living increment. Other than that the only way to improve your pay is by competing for better jobs. -
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Re: "You"ll earn much more money for less effort"No, oil/gas and mining jobs are far worse than that. You work a week system where you might have 3 weeks on and 2 weeks off and during the 3 weeks on you get up, get out in the field or onto the rig and work through to the evening. You have dinner and then write up the day's work and then go to bed after a quick beer. Only, that's in the middle of a war zone and you might be beheaded if you get caught. No pressure or anything. 12hr shifts sound wonderful when you think about the actual working conditions.(Original post by DynamicSyngery)
I don't think there are any. Medicine is pretty much the only profession where you are more or less guaranteed a high paying job just by passing exams. The only professions that reliably pay more are corporate law and investment banking, and both are harder to get into, have longer hours, and in the latter case has terrible job security. Oil and gas/mining also has some jobs that pay comparably (probably not more, for equivalent education and experience), but only because they're located in the arse end of nowhere with 12 hour shifts.
The reason for this is that medicine is a cartel. There are far fewer medical school places than there are willing and able candidates, strictly enforced by licenses controlled by doctors' trade guilds, and this drives up salaries. I don't think there's any reason most doctors should be paid more than £30-40k, in line with most non-corporate lawyers, research staff and engineers. -
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Re: "You"ll earn much more money for less effort"short answer for you:(Original post by dontreply)
What I'm not asking or stating in this thread is that it is "good" or "rational" to pick a degree based on the money you'll get at the end of it. What I am in fact querying is the statement that you hear very often about it being irrational to go in to medicine if all you want is money; as you can get more money for less effort doing something else. What jobs exactly are people thinking of when they say this? As all the ones I can think of require rather a lot of effort, are not exactly in abundance and are generally occupied by the best people from the best universities. If there really was another job that could guarantee the pay of a doctor then people would flock to it no?
medicine (HARD TO GET INTO) = 100% graduate prospects. Working up to 110k with up to 50% bonus and + a potential unlt amount of money from privates.
buisness subjects: e.g. finance and banking : 50 applicants per place from qualified graduates (recently read that in bbc news). the best get the place. then you work as a slave and have to prove u to your boss. hardworking and overhours. YES, you have the potential to earn millions but its really up to your skill after graduating. -
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Re: "You"ll earn much more money for less effort"lol, well here we go, clearly a prominent doctor and someone who is actually transgendered: http://www.nwitimes.com/lifestyles/a...ecaaa14fb.html
Last edited by t0ffee; 11-07-2012 at 23:21. -
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Re: "You"ll earn much more money for less effort"Examples of higher paying but certainly not less draining jobs include:
Economic consulting and competition analysis
Football
Tax consulting and advisory
Long haul pilots (due to tax implications of skipping around the world)
Oil and gas beyond senior engineer level
Big pimpin'
Setting up your own business
Trading in equities, derivatives, commodities...
Real estate investment (after many years of being very, very good)
Some truckers
Tony Blair style "advisory"
Media mogul
Oligarch
Monarchy
OK lost track a bit...
. Wish you the best in your appeal and application!.
