[Harambulus]

Since I am self employed and partly on HB and partly earning my earnings alone wouldnt be enough to impress most agents. Also for flats in town they immediately discriminate when they hear HB even though Ive paid like clockwork all the years Ive been in my properties.

So I thought that I could just tell the agents that my mum is going to pay the rent (since I couldnt say I would even if I didnt tell them I was claiming HB since theyd want to see proof of income which would not be sufficient) then pay my rent to my mum.

Does this sound doable and would I be breaking and rules buy doing this? I did some reading a while back and found that to my understanding its fine to pay HB to a relative so long as you arent both living under the same roof. I prob wouldnt tell HB about this though as they wouldnt have to know so long as my name is still on the shorthold tenancy I just give that to them then when I get the money into my accounts I just pay it to her. If it was above bo\rd though I would tell them so long as theyd side with me since I want to keep on their good side. Likewise the agents wouldnt have to know that I was claiming HB since my mum would be paying the rent to them.

Does this sound like it could work? and is it actually breaking any rules? I dont wanna do it if it risks me getting in trouble down the line but as far as I see so far it isnt breaking any rules except for that insurance crap about ppl on housing benefit not declaring to landlords but that just sounds like a scare tactic landlords use to get you to 'fess up'.

[Origami Bullets]

I did some reading a while back and found that to my understanding its fine to pay HB to a relative so long as you arent both living under the same roof. I prob wouldnt tell HB about this though

And this is where you commit benefit fraud.

In addition, the contract will probably have a clause in about being liable for any costs if you invalidate the insurance. Many landlord insurance policies are invalidated (yes, it's true, I've seen the wording of landlord insurance policies) by the presence of DSS (i.e. HB) claimants and asylum seekers. This could be a very expensive mistake.

[marcusfox]

No, housing benefit is generally not available if you rent from a relative, whether or not you live under the same roof or not, unless it's a commercial rental agreement, yours sounds like its a contrived tenancy which is not permitted.

Dishonestly pretending to the DWP that they're not a relative? It's called benefit fraud.

[askew116]

(Original post by marcusfox)
No, housing benefit is generally not available if you rent from a relative, whether or not you live under the same roof or not, unless it's a commercial rental agreement, yours sounds like its a contrived tenancy which is not permitted.

Dishonestly pretending to the DWP that they're not a relative? It's called benefit fraud.

I think what OP is saying is that he pays HB to his Mum who then pays the HB to the Agent, and is not actually renting from his Mum. This is not strictly prohibited, as it is not the responsibility of the local authority to ensure HB is paid to the landlord/agents, it is the claimants' responsibility to do this, in whatever way they choose.

OP, I would advise you that your local authority may not understand exactly what your intentions are if you declare it to them. Also, previous posters have quite rightly said that the landlord/agent may evict you if/when they find out.

MarcusFox, this is not a contrived tenancy, a contrived tenancy is a tenancy created with the intention of defrauding the HB system. OP is not defrauding the HB system, he is claiming HB for a tenancy granted from an agent. He may be defrauding the agency though, but that's their problem.

[marcusfox]

(Original post by askew116)
I think what OP is saying is that he pays HB to his Mum who then pays the HB to the Agent, and is not actually renting from his Mum. This is not strictly prohibited, as it is not the responsibility of the local authority to ensure HB is paid to the landlord/agents, it is the claimants' responsibility to do this, in whatever way they choose.

OP, I would advise you that your local authority may not understand exactly what your intentions are if you declare it to them. Also, previous posters have quite rightly said that the landlord/agent may evict you if/when they find out.

This is not a contrived tenancy, a contrived tenancy is a tenancy created with the intention of defrauding the HB system. OP is not defrauding the HB system, he is claiming HB for a tenancy granted from an agent. He may be defrauding the agency though, but that's their problem.

If he is going to be paying the HB money to his mum, but says he is claiming it on behalf of another tenancy, then that is fraudulent. He is contriving the tenancy so as to get housing benefit to pay for it. It doesn't matter that his mum then pays that money to someone else.

If you go ahead and spell out exactly and in detail to the HB people that that is precisely what you plan to do, they will tell you it is not allowed.

[Lord Jon]

This is Benefit Fraud

[askew116]

(Original post by marcusfox)
If he is going to be paying the HB money to his mum, but says he is claiming it on behalf of another tenancy, then that is fraudulent. He is contriving the tenancy so as to get housing benefit to pay for it. It doesn't matter that his mum then pays that money to someone else.

If you go ahead and spell out exactly and in detail to the HB people that that is precisely what you plan to do, they will tell you it is not allowed.

I am an HB assessor, what he's planning to do is not a problem with regard to HB. He is committing fraud against the agent, but that is not HB's problem. If a Landlord contacts HB to say their tenant is not paying the rent, we would still continue to pay HB to the claimant. The only exception to that is if the claimant is in arrears of 8 weeks or more, HB would then be paid directly to the landlord/agent.

If a claimant I was dealing with an application for told me he was planning on doing what OP is doing, I would ask more questions than usual about the tenancy and who the Landlord is (to make sure his Mum isn't in fact the Landlord and using an agency - that would be a contrived tenancy), but once I'd been satisfied that the Landlord is not a close relative of the claimant, I would not have a problem in awarding HB.

OP's main area of concern should be if the agency cottons on what he is doing, they would be in their rights to evict him, however this is categorically not a benefits issue.

[marcusfox]

(Original post by askew116)
I am an HB assessor, what he's planning to do is not a problem with regard to HB. He is committing fraud against the agent, but that is not HB's problem. If a Landlord contacts HB to say their tenant is not paying the rent, we would still continue to pay HB to the claimant. The only exception to that is if the claimant is in arrears of 8 weeks or more, HB would then be paid directly to the landlord/agent.

If a claimant I was dealing with an application for told me he was planning on doing what OP is doing, I would ask more questions than usual about the tenancy and who the Landlord is (to make sure his Mum isn't in fact the Landlord and using an agency - that would be a contrived tenancy), but once I'd been satisfied that the Landlord is not a close relative of the claimant, I would not have a problem in awarding HB.

OP's main area of concern should be if the agency cottons on what he is doing, they would be in their rights to evict him, however this is categorically not a benefits issue.

If you are a housing benefits assessor, and say that a tenant can get a HB award on a property where the tenant is paying the housing benefit to someone else and the landlord isn't aware that housing benefit is being claimed on his tenancy, then I'm afraid I'll have to defer to your assessment of the situation.

If you are a HB assessor, you should know that even if his landlord was his mum and using an agency in this situation, he is allowed housing benefit, provided the tenancy is at commercial rates, but that's aside from this matter.

The OP has already said that his income won't impress the agent, and he's planning on telling the agent that his mum will pay it.

The only way the agent will entertain that idea is if his mum signs the letting agreement either in whole or in part, otherwise what is the point in having an agent credit checking that the person signing the contract is employed or otherwise has the ability to pay if an otherwise 'deadbeat' tenant can just say 'oh, my mum will pay it' and then flee in the dead of night, or tie the landlord up in costly and long-winded evictions where he is enjoying the property without paying rent until he can be kicked out.

If his mum signs the tenancy then he won't get housing benefit for it and any way he tries to swing it, that would be fraud.

Most landlords don't allow HB tenants because it's a clause in their mortgage or house insurance that demands higher interest or higher premiums.

[askew116]

(Original post by marcusfox)

If you are a HB assessor, you should know that even if his landlord was his mum and using an agency in this situation, he is allowed housing benefit, provided the tenancy is at commercial rates, but that's aside from this matter.

The OP has already said that his income won't impress the agent, and he's planning on telling the agent that his mum will pay it.

The only way the agent will entertain that idea is if his mum signs the letting agreement either in whole or in part, otherwise what is the point in having an agent credit checking that the person signing the contract is employed or otherwise has the ability to pay if an otherwise 'deadbeat' tenant can just say 'oh, my mum will pay it' and then flee in the dead of night, or tie the landlord up in costly and long-winded evictions where he is enjoying the property without paying rent until he can be kicked out.

If his mum signs the tenancy then he won't get housing benefit for it and any way he tries to swing it, that would be fraud.

Most landlords don't allow HB tenants because it's a clause in their mortgage or house insurance that demands higher interest or higher premiums.

You actually cannot claim HB if the Landlord is a close relative. The only exception to that is if it can be proven that the close relative has rented the property in question out previously to non-family members. Proof of this such as previous tenancy agreements would always be required.

The agency wouldn't need (at least, not a reputable one) his Mum to sign the tenancy as a tenant, however they may (and probably will) require her to act as a guarantor. As I work in Housing Benefit and not as an agent, I would imagine they'd credit check both the tenant and the guarantor, though please correct me on that if necessary.

If his Mum signs as a guarantor, he can still claim HB, as anyone can act as a guarantor. Even if (and this scenario is highly unlikely) the agency wants his Mum to sign as a tenant, there would still be no benefits issue with that, apart from the fact that a deduction from any award would be made as his Mum would be expected to pay the shortfall.

Finally, from all previous professional (and personal) conversations with Landlords, I've been told that the reason many of them won't accept tenants claiming HB is because whenever there's any change of circumstances, their HB claim is suspended until it's re-assessed, and this can cause the Landlord problems with being able to pay their mortgage. I'm not saying that Insurance/Mortgage premiums are not a factor, just that I've never heard that reason mentioned.

[marcusfox]

(Original post by askew116)
You actually cannot claim HB if the Landlord is a close relative. The only exception to that is if it can be proven that the close relative has rented the property in question out previously to non-family members. Proof of this such as previous tenancy agreements would always be required.

The agency wouldn't need (at least, not a reputable one) his Mum to sign the tenancy as a tenant, however they may (and probably will) require her to act as a guarantor. As I work in Housing Benefit and not as an agent, I would imagine they'd credit check both the tenant and the guarantor, though please correct me on that if necessary.

If his Mum signs as a guarantor, he can still claim HB, as anyone can act as a guarantor. Even if (and this scenario is highly unlikely) the agency wants his Mum to sign as a tenant, there would still be no benefits issue with that, apart from the fact that a deduction from any award would be made as his Mum would be expected to pay the shortfall.

Finally, from all previous professional (and personal) conversations with Landlords, I've been told that the reason many of them won't accept tenants claiming HB is because whenever there's any change of circumstances, their HB claim is suspended until it's re-assessed, and this can cause the Landlord problems with being able to pay their mortgage. I'm not saying that Insurance/Mortgage premiums are not a factor, just that I've never heard that reason mentioned.

I didn't exclude any exceptions in my post, so on the face of it, you can get housing benefit for a let from a close family.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad...amily_member#1

Shelter are saying that you can indeed get housing benefit from a family member if you are renting on a commercial basis and you don't live under the same roof as they do.

[Harambulus]

Thanks for the informed info askew.

Yes I think even if my mum were paying the agents I'd still be the one on the tenancy agreement because Im the one living there.

I lived with a housemate once who's mum paid for his whole 6 months in one go cos she lived overseas and it was still his name on the tenancy agreement.

So in that case the agents would still be the landlord.

Another option Ive since thought of is to maybe just have the HB paid into another bank account and have a standing order to put it straight into my rent paying account then when it came to credit checks if I had to give statements then it wouldnt show up as housing benefit, I could call it what I want on my standing order I make out to myself.

Id still use my mum as a garautor cos you still have to be good for 10 times the rent or whatever but I thought this way I could makeout like the HB going into my account was some form of other income for those doing credit checks.

As I said in total I can cover the rent payments I just have to 'cloak' my HB payments and thought that could be another option with potentially less deception or maybe about the same but another option nonetheless .

[marcusfox]

(Original post by Harambulus)
Thanks for the informed info askew.

Yes I think even if my mum were paying the agents I'd still be the one on the tenancy agreement because Im the one living there.

I lived with a housemate once who's mum paid for his whole 6 months in one go cos she lived overseas and it was still his name on the tenancy agreement.

So in that case the agents would still be the landlord.

Another option Ive since thought of is to maybe just have the HB paid into another bank account and have a standing order to put it straight into my rent paying account then when it came to credit checks if I had to give statements then it wouldnt show up as housing benefit, I could call it what I want on my standing order I make out to myself.

Id still use my mum as a garautor cos you still have to be good for 10 times the rent or whatever but I thought this way I could makeout like the HB going into my account was some form of other income for those doing credit checks.

As I said in total I can cover the rent payments I just have to 'cloak' my HB payments and thought that could be another option with potentially less deception or maybe about the same but another option nonetheless .

Have you ever rented from an agency that credit checks you before?

The agency will usually require that you are employed and will check this with an employer reference.

They will also often require a reference from a previous landlord.

[Harambulus]

Yes several times.

Well I am employed; Im self employed so I can just give them whatever info they want myself.

[marcusfox]

(Original post by Harambulus)
Yes several times.

Well I am employed; Im self employed so I can just give them whatever info they want myself.

If self employed, they will want to know that self employed isn't a euphemism for unemployed, doing odd jobs for cash now and again. If you aren't bringing in enough to pay the rent on the property 'impress them' and consequently require HB, then it's quite likely that this is how it really is.

Many self employed people would fail a credit and reference check for a property, not because they can't afford it, but only because they are unable to demonstrate the things that the credit check looks at.

You will want to ask them what this check entails as there would be no point in paying the fee to be checked if you wouldn't pass it.

[hunter0510]

It sounds like you try to "over-complicate" the whole scenario.

A landlord wants to have some evidence that the tenant can and will pay the rent. You are earning some money and you get a "top-up" of LHA (Local Housing Allowance).

Agents usually check your creditscore, which is the public creditscore and slightly different to the full credit score - usually better/higher. You can check it yourself on checkmyfile.com or similar.

They will want to see some proof of income, normally 3 months payslips or if you are self-employed, your accounts or bank statements.

Ideally you should make sure you can offer a guarantor, which should be a homeowner. That can put agents/landlords worry about non-payment to rest.

It is true that some mortgage lenders don't allow tenants on benefits but it is often an issue with "unlucky wording". There used to be long term leases available from the council and I believe that is what the lenders really don't like. It doesn't allow them to take possession of the property easily if a landlord goes bust. Gaining possession easily is also the reason for lenders to insist on 6-12months AST's. Most landlords would happily grant longer terms.

And yes, the insurance companies want to know who the tenants are. Not sure if they have an issue with benefit claimants though. I have only ever let to students and I am positive that costs me a bit more in premiums but it's not too bad.

Overall my advice is stick to the truth if asked. A friend of mine works and gets HB top up and noone ever cared. Her income was higher than the rent and that was good enough for the letting agent. Having a guarantor might be the key.

[Harambulus]

Its not overcompicating. If they find out Im on HB they disqualify me outright 'sorry we dont accept housing benefit'. End of story. It hasnt been a negotiable issue.

(Original post by hunter0510)
It sounds like you try to "over-complicate" the whole scenario.

A landlord wants to have some evidence that the tenant can and will pay the rent. You are earning some money and you get a "top-up" of LHA (Local Housing Allowance).

Agents usually check your creditscore, which is the public creditscore and slightly different to the full credit score - usually better/higher. You can check it yourself on checkmyfile.com or similar.

They will want to see some proof of income, normally 3 months payslips or if you are self-employed, your accounts or bank statements.

Ideally you should make sure you can offer a guarantor, which should be a homeowner. That can put agents/landlords worry about non-payment to rest.

It is true that some mortgage lenders don't allow tenants on benefits but it is often an issue with "unlucky wording". There used to be long term leases available from the council and I believe that is what the lenders really don't like. It doesn't allow them to take possession of the property easily if a landlord goes bust. Gaining possession easily is also the reason for lenders to insist on 6-12months AST's. Most landlords would happily grant longer terms.

And yes, the insurance companies want to know who the tenants are. Not sure if they have an issue with benefit claimants though. I have only ever let to students and I am positive that costs me a bit more in premiums but it's not too bad.

Overall my advice is stick to the truth if asked. A friend of mine works and gets HB top up and noone ever cared. Her income was higher than the rent and that was good enough for the letting agent. Having a guarantor might be the key.

[Harambulus]

Thats the whole point of a garantaur which my mum would be.

(Original post by marcusfox)
If self employed, they will want to know that self employed isn't a euphemism for unemployed, doing odd jobs for cash now and again. If you aren't bringing in enough to pay the rent on the property 'impress them' and consequently require HB, then it's quite likely that this is how it really is.

Many self employed people would fail a credit and reference check for a property, not because they can't afford it, but only because they are unable to demonstrate the things that the credit check looks at.

You will want to ask them what this check entails as there would be no point in paying the fee to be checked if you wouldn't pass it.