[sophia_]

I personally feel that if Muslim families wish their children to not be caught in relationships with non-Muslims then they should seek to live in a Muslim country to avoid a high risk of it occurring.

[mariachi]

(Original post by naiadania)
All those posts were about my spelling...? Whoa, what's to say, other than that some people on the net have no life outside of it.



Let see, so by your own unreliable and very strange assumption, most Muslims don't follow Islam (i.e., are Muslims by name, but are not Muslims) and this is what stops you from hating them. And so if they were Muslims, you'd hate them. Aren't you just reaffirming this point? Let's say it again: Muslim-hater.

You hate Muslims, hate the fact that we practice our religion, and this is why you badly, badly want us to abandon the teachings of Islam. All this shows is that the Qur'ans words, heard by the first man 1400 years ago, are yet coming into effect and proving themselves true again and again.

They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). Qur'an Al Nisa' 89

well, at least you learned something about pre-martial relationships and pre-marital relationships

so, all my efforts were not in vain

as to the hate, I clearly said that I hate no one. This is what I wrote :

(Original post by mariachi)
A. "Muslim-hater" ? totally wrong. I don't hate anyone.

B. Most Muslims don't actually follow Islam, and for this reason are (usually), just normal people

C. There is absolutely no reason for hating them

you are assuming that, in my view, C. is a consequence of B. This is a common logical fallacy : it is called "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" (which means : if X follows Y, then X is caused by Y). And yet, while I clearly said that B. follows from A. ('for this reason"), I didn't say that C follows from B.

So, you have learnt something else. Don't tell me I don't care about your instruction.

As to my relations with Muslims, since most of them just lead normal lives, and don't really spend their time trying to "make Allah's word reign supreme" and expanding the "Dar-ul Islam" over people who don't want to be part of it, they are just normal people

as to the violent "Islamists", I don't hate them, but of course that our society has to defend itself against them

as to Islam, I don't hate it, but I am strongly critical of it.

In short : hate is irrational. Criticism is rational. And, of course that I would like for "moderate" Islam to reinforce itself and gain the upper hand : who likes "immoderate" religions after all ?

all the best

[naiadania]

Keep doggedly sticking to the spelling, you have no point to make and are just fishing for rep, besides using it as an vent to hate on Muslims.

(Original post by mariachi)
and expanding the "Dar-ul Islam" over people who don't want to be part of it

Seriously? You're still bleating about Islam taking over when the US and NATO openly imposes its political agendas and hegemony through illegal invasions, wars and coups over so many Muslim countries today? Aren't you ashamed of yourself?

This idea of "expanding dar ul islam" is plain rubbish, taken neither from Qur'an nor Hadith sources, but from Muslim-hating websites.

The rest of your post was just waffle. Waffle and rubbish. But you're wording it in such a vague way as to leave room for elaboration later, so you could change the meaning.

[mariachi]

(Original post by naiadania)
hate on Muslims (...)

bleating about Islam (...)

Aren't you ashamed of yourself?(...)

This idea of "expanding dar ul islam" is plain rubbish(...)

The rest of your post was just waffle. Waffle and rubbish.

you sound like an unhappy, frustrated, embittered person

I have clearly stated that I hate no one, and I am not going to start today

try to relax: and if you want to learn about expanding the "Dar-ul Islam", read a good book which deals with offensive jihad, such as "Join the caravan" by Abdullah Azzam, or "Milestones", by Sayyd Qutb

Best

[naiadania]

I asked you for a valid Islamic source to back up your claims and you said

(Original post by mariachi)
as "Join the caravan" by Abdullah Azzam, or "Milestones", by Sayyd Qutb

Ha Ha Ha...

[naiadania]

(Original post by mariachi)
you sound like an unhappy, frustrated, embittered person

And YOU keep dodging questions, quoting dodgy sources, and re-arranging tiny snippets of quotes to suit your purposes. Though I must thank you for putting so much thought and effort into providing me with my personal psychoanalytic profile, but my "embittered person" is here to debate, not to play silly mind-games.

[Alia223]

Just to mention the obvious, any woman who calls herself Muslim would never be involved with a non-Muslim man in the first place. She shouldn't be fearing her relatives more than fearing her Lord because if she was a true practicing Muslim, she would follow and respect the commands of her Lord.

[naiadania]

(Original post by Alia223)
Just to mention the obvious, any woman who calls herself Muslim would never be involved with a non-Muslim man in the first place. She shouldn't be fearing her relatives more than fearing her Lord because if she was a true practicing Muslim, she would follow and respect the commands of her Lord.

Exactly. I hope you don't mind but I'm going to copy and paste that into my comment on the first page, I tried to say the same thing but didn't word it properly.

[mariachi]

(Original post by naiadania)
I asked you for a valid Islamic source to back up your claims and you said



Ha Ha Ha...

laugh all you want, dear friend

if you had bothered to read those books I indicated, you would have found the daleel quoted by those scholars who think that "offensive jihad" is admissible (mostly, from the Shafii madhab, but not only)

you have some sort of resume of positions on the admissibility of offensive jihad here http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=21082 , along with an outline of Quradawi's position (which of course is not, by all means, the end of it)

and now, do your homework

best

[PrismaticCore]

(Original post by Alia223)
Just to mention the obvious, any woman who calls herself Muslim would never be involved with a non-Muslim man in the first place. She shouldn't be fearing her relatives more than fearing her Lord because if she was a true practicing Muslim, she would follow and respect the commands of her Lord.

That's discrimination isn't it?
It's this refusal to associate oneself with non-muslims (men or women) that has made the gap between muslims and non-muslims so huge.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by naiadania)
And YOU keep dodging questions, quoting dodgy sources, and re-arranging tiny snippets of quotes to suit your purposes. .

Just to interject at this point - you cant critisise someone for making snippets of quotes - you can look at the Islam-Soc thread and see hundreds of 1 line snippets of quotes saying you should do this or shouldnt do that. That is the purpose of quoting, the burden is not to post the whole quran on tsr.
If the quotes exist and is valid, deal with the point it raises, not the context in which it is provided. otherwise your arguemnt looks deflated

[cowsforsale]

Damn you Muslim women for dressing so provocatively!!

""Many women who do not dress modestly ... lead young men astray, corrupt their chastity and spread adultery in society, which increases earthquakes," Hojatoleslam Kazem Sedighi was quoted as saying by Iranian media\"

[abc101]

(Original post by OneTimer)
why do you not want to marry a muslim?

Most Muslims I've met have not been the kind of people I get along well with. I have a simplistic philosophy when it comes to faith, and find a great deal of Muslims to be over-zealous. I have very little in common with them apart from believing in God, and it seems that the God they believe in isn't the same as the God I believe in.

This is most Muslims I've met. I'm not saying all Muslims, and I'm not saying that's what Islam's about, but in my experience, with most Muslims I've known, our lifestyles would be completely incompatible.

[Slushxx]

(Original post by Alia223)
Just to mention the obvious, any woman who calls herself Muslim would never be involved with a non-Muslim man in the first place. She shouldn't be fearing her relatives more than fearing her Lord because if she was a true practicing Muslim, she would follow and respect the commands of her Lord.

Well in reality it just doesn't work like that, there are Muslim women who fall in love and get involved with non muslim men. Usually they ask/persuade the guy to convert although this conversion is not always sincere. I don't think anyone should ever feel scared to tell their parents and family who they have fallen in love with, unfortunately within Islamic communities this is almost always the case. Just to add you have no right to say someone is not a Muslim just because their behaviour or beliefs don't line up with your.

[?!master?!mini?!]

(Original post by s_axo)
My sisters done it, I've done it (though i'm hardly a musilm anymore). Mom doesn't take issue with it, and my sisters white christian boyfriend hangs out with my family and she cooks curry for him (haha)

well i'll put it simply for you. You're not a muslim so in response to what you posted on this thread your views mean absolutely nothing.

Muslim by name. nothing more or less

[nmudz_009]

Every parent that actually loved their child would definitely think twice before killing their own flesh and blood. Most parents do love their children and see them as more than just a matter of honour. Some people do definitely think that way but you can't generalise as the OP is doing. Most Muslim parents wouldn't be happy with their daughter marrying into a non-Muslim family, even strongly discourage the couple from marrying, but killing wud just be beyond imagination for them...not even in a drunken rage....

The OP also seems to think every single relation leads to a marriage? I assume even demented parents would only be angry if it went as far as marriage. So no, almost all Muslim females in a relationship with any kind of boy would NOT feel under threat, as most relationships will probrably just end in break up

[floridadad55]

(Original post by naiadania)
They're not Muslims (submitters to Allah, followers of the Straight Path) if they have such a relationship, which is forbidden in Islam. Invalid question

Or, in other words:

So if a person is a Christian or a Jew, and believes in the same God of Abraham that you believe in, he is still not suitable for marriage to you, no matter how great a person he is?

If that person were Christian (supposedly Islam respects Christ as a prophet, but I have seen little evidence of respect for the Christian religion in the muslim world), and was a good person, handsome, and was rich and successful, and a pioneering doctor in the field of cancer research, you would prefer a less accomplished, less good looking, and a worse overall person, just because he was a muslim?

Does that truly make sense to you?

[s_axo]

(Original post by ?!master?!mini?!)
well i'll put it simply for you. You're not a muslim so in response to what you posted on this thread your views mean absolutely nothing.

Muslim by name. nothing more or less

I agree with your last statement, and as soon as i can leave I shall.

[abc101]

(Original post by Slushxx)
Well in reality it just doesn't work like that, there are Muslim women who fall in love and get involved with non muslim men. Usually they ask/persuade the guy to convert although this conversion is not always sincere. I don't think anyone should ever feel scared to tell their parents and family who they have fallen in love with, unfortunately within Islamic communities this is almost always the case. Just to add you have no right to say someone is not a Muslim just because their behaviour or beliefs don't line up with your.

Exactly. People don't seem to realise you don't have any choice over who you fall in love with! I wouldn't ask anyone to convert for me, it's disrespectful and the conversion will be insincere.

If someone says they're a Muslim, they're a Muslim. It's not for anyone else to make judgements about their faith.

[naiadania]

(Original post by floridadad55)
So if a person is a Christian or a Jew, and believes in the same God of Abraham that you believe in, he is still not suitable for marriage to you, no matter how great a person he is?

If that person were Christian (supposedly Islam respects Christ as a prophet, but I have seen little evidence of respect for the Christian religion in the muslim world), and was a good person, handsome, and was rich and successful, and a pioneering doctor in the field of cancer research, you would prefer a less accomplished, less good looking, and a worse overall person, just because he was a muslim?

Does that truly make sense to you?

Is this a genuine question? You're asking me if I prefer this material world (a high salaried luxurious lifestyle and a good looking bloke) over the afterlife (which to me as a Muslim means reward from the Almighty which will far outweigh any pleasure we experience here). You must be another non-practising Christian. If you're a Christian, you should know and realise that this life is temporary and is a time of trial, hardship, suffering and hard work. The Afterlife is a permanent dwelling, a permanent consequence of our actions in this life and so it is preferable over this lifetime here on Earth.

Secondly, I don't judge how "overall better" or "overall worse" a person is by their salary and looks, rather by their faith, piety, and good strong character according to Islamic standards (honesty, generosity, responsibility to provide). Though I see no reason why a Muslim guy can't be educated, good looking, and pious all at once...?

Plus I don't see why you'd be overly keen on ANYONE being in a tension-filled relationship with someone if they're completely different and follow different lifestyles and ideals, but then again I suppose that a non-practising Christian may have no problem marrying someone from a different religion. Whereas any PRACTISING person from ANY religion would face many obstacles with having a partner practising another religion, namely:

• They'd want their kids raised differently and taught different things
• They'd have different outlooks to life
• They'd have different expectations from life, and follow different paths
• Each find it hard to accept that their other half isn't as guided as they (from their perspective)
• They may want different routines, customs and traditions in the household

So I don't understand why me choosing not to marry outside of my religion is such a problem to you...............?

You may not have thought of this before and you may not agree with all of this, but this is my mindset and outlook to life, and though you may not be aware of it, I assure you that this is what Islam AND Christianity teach to their believers.