[Gridiron-Gangster]

Basically I'm looking at applying to Dartmouth for a master's programme starting in 2013.

I wanted to gauge the opinions on here of how highly regarded Dartmouth is in the US/UK and internationally and also amongst employers?

I mean I've always known of Dartmouth and that it's one of the Ivies. Ok given the Ivies aren't necessarily the best colleges in the US (Chicago, MIT, Stanford, Caltech and Berkeley are just as good if not better than some of the Ivies) but generally speaking the Ivies have that tradition and stereotype of being selective, elitist etc.

Dartmouth seems particularly strong at the unergraduate level but not so much a postgrad level except for the Medical and Business Schools. Also I notice in some world rankings Dartmouth barely scrapes inside the top 100 and despite it's history of selectivity and tradition it ranks below even places you wouldn't think were considered elitist etc.

So I just wanted to gauge just exactly how high regarded Dartmouth is? Surely having an Ivy League university name on your CV will look good right? I mean in the long run I'm looking at doing graduate-entry Medicine (Oxbridge or London) but would like to work in the US in some capacity. i'm just wondering if having a name like Dartmouth on the CV would help my chances with regards to working abroad and also getting into Oxford or Cambridge?

I'm also considering UPenn and Chicago. Honestly I like the look of UPenn and Dartmouth the best. They seem to have the trappings of an elite academic environment without he stuffiness and intimidation of say Harvard, Yale or MIT (I'd never be good enough for those 3 anyways). Dartmouth looks very green too. And I want the Ivy League experience.

[usual-suspect]

What are you studying for your masters.

[Gridiron-Gangster]

(Original post by usual-suspect)
What are you studying for your masters.

I'm thinking of applying for the Master's of Liberal Arts mainly because it seems more embrasive towards non-standard/non-traditional students.

[t0ffee]

(Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
Basically I'm looking at applying to Dartmouth for a master's programme starting in 2013.

I wanted to gauge the opinions on here of how highly regarded Dartmouth is in the US/UK and internationally and also amongst employers?

I mean I've always known of Dartmouth and that it's one of the Ivies. Ok given the Ivies aren't necessarily the best colleges in the US (Chicago, MIT, Stanford, Caltech and Berkeley are just as good if not better than some of the Ivies) but generally speaking the Ivies have that tradition and stereotype of being selective, elitist etc.

Dartmouth seems particularly strong at the unergraduate level but not so much a postgrad level except for the Medical and Business Schools. Also I notice in some world rankings Dartmouth barely scrapes inside the top 100 and despite it's history of selectivity and tradition it ranks below even places you wouldn't think were considered elitist etc.

So I just wanted to gauge just exactly how high regarded Dartmouth is? Surely having an Ivy League university name on your CV will look good right? I mean in the long run I'm looking at doing graduate-entry Medicine (Oxbridge or London) but would like to work in the US in some capacity. i'm just wondering if having a name like Dartmouth on the CV would help my chances with regards to working abroad and also getting into Oxford or Cambridge?

I'm also considering UPenn and Chicago. Honestly I like the look of UPenn and Dartmouth the best. They seem to have the trappings of an elite academic environment without he stuffiness and intimidation of say Harvard, Yale or MIT (I'd never be good enough for those 3 anyways). Dartmouth looks very green too. And I want the Ivy League experience.

Not very! I doubt many people in the UK have even heard of it. To be honest once you;ve done your undergrad the biggest think to help you get jobs is just to do some work! Doing a generic broad masters degree course won't tell an employer anything other than 'he followed on his degree with a masters'.

[Gridiron-Gangster]

(Original post by t0ffee)
Not very! I doubt many people in the UK have even heard of it. To be honest once you;ve done your undergrad the biggest think to help you get jobs is just to do some work! Doing a generic broad masters degree course won't tell an employer anything other than 'he followed on his degree with a masters'.

So I guess the Dartmouth nametag wouldn't carry much weight?

As I asked before, would it look good on the CV if say applying for Graduate Medicine at Oxford or Cambridge or the London Schools (obviously with the bachelor's too hand, good ECs, excellent work experience etc.)?

Surely a reference from an Ivy League school tutor would carry a lot of weight right?

but surely as an Ivy League institution it remains highly regarded in American Society and worldwide? I always though of Dartmouth as being one of the heavyweights of the US higher education system.

[t0ffee]

(Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
So I guess the Dartmouth nametag wouldn't carry much weight?

As I asked before, would it look good on the CV if say applying for Graduate Medicine at Oxford or Cambridge or the London Schools (obviously with the bachelor's too hand, good ECs, excellent work experience etc.)?

Surely a reference from an Ivy League school tutor would carry a lot of weight right?

but surely as an Ivy League institution it remains highly regarded in American Society and worldwide? I always though of Dartmouth as being one of the heavyweights of the US higher education system.

No! If you want to do grad med work as a HCA, volunteer lots, get work experience and do a science masters or some science ALevels if you really must study more.

[Gridiron-Gangster]

(Original post by t0ffee)
No! If you want to do grad med work as a HCA, volunteer lots, get work experience and do a science masters or some science ALevels if you really must study more.

Done all that except for the HCA bit and Science Master's bit.

[poohat]

In terms of pure prestige Dartmouth is substantially behind Oxbridge and Chicago, particularly at graduate level. From your post you seem to be seriously underrating Chicago which is easily a worldwide top 10 university and on the same level as Oxbridge/Yale/Princeton/Berkeley/etc

The Ivy League is a sports league, not an indication of how good the university is. You might be able to fool the average person on the street, but anyone in academia knows the difference between Harvard/Yale/Princeton and the rest (although Columbia is probably also top 10-15 worldwide, and UPenn is very good too)

edit: dont get me wrong, Dartmouth is a perfectly good university and if you do well in your studies then you will be competitive for PhD programs, but dont let the "Ivy League" thing fool you into thinking its something it isnt.

[Rancorous]

Anyone who hasn't heard of Dartmouth isn't worth listening to/working for.

[Gridiron-Gangster]

(Original post by poohat)
In terms of pure prestige Dartmouth is substantially behind Oxbridge and Chicago, particularly at graduate level. From your post you seem to be seriously underrating Chicago which is easily a worldwide top 10 university and on the same level as Oxbridge/Yale/Princeton/Berkeley/etc

The Ivy League is a sports league, not an indication of how good the university is. You might be able to fool the average person on the street, but anyone in academia knows the difference between Harvard/Yale/Princeton and the rest (although Columbia is probably also top 10-15 worldwide, and UPenn is very good too)

edit: dont get me wrong, Dartmouth is a perfectly good university and if you do well in your studies then you will be competitive for PhD programs, but dont let the "Ivy League" thing fool you into thinking its something it isnt.

Oh I haven't underestimated Chicago at all. I'm well aware it's a top 10 university and pretty much on par with HYP, Oxbridge, MIT, Stanford and Caltech if not better in some respects. It's just I've always been mesmerised by the allure of the Ivy League.

Penn is consistently in the top 20 in the world rankings and has a world famous medical school and even more world famous supe duper business school. Darrtmouth excells at undergraduate level but suffers at postgrad owing to the small size of it's graduate studies fields/departments compared to places like say Yale or Columbia although Princeton too doesn't have amassive Graduate department but ranks consistently high.

Also applying for Graduate Medicine they look at the Bachelor's degree and with the 2:1 I've satisfied the entry requirements for all graduate programmes in the UK except Birmingham. The Master's would only be an "addition" to the CV as opposed to being majorly game changing although with Chicago, Penn or even Dartmouth on my CV I would hope it would garner some attention if backed up with stellar ECs, work experience, BMAT/UKCAT scores especially with Oxbridge i.e. to consolidate my claim to being academically able (by being able to study at a top ranked US univerrsity).

Frankly it's UPenn I've always dreamed of and would pick of the three although I accept on paper that Chicago probably has the strongest reputation. TBH even if I just got the one offer out of the three I'd be happy.

The world rankings don't really tell the true story though and that's the same for even the national rankings.

[poohat]

If you want to go to it because its Ivy League then just do it. It seems a bit silly to me because the reason the 'Ivy League' is prestigious is because of Harvard/Yale/Princeton and outside the US I doubt many people even know Dartmouth is an Ivy, but if its something you need to get out of your system then do it I guess

If you want to maximise your chances of getting into a good place for postgraduate then I would have thought that Chicago would give you the best chance, followed by UPenn with Dartmouth a bit behind, but I dont know a huge amount about US universities, or med school in general (im basing this on overall prestige rather than medicine specifically)

edit: I dont know how it works in medicine but I was under the impression that terminal masters programs in the US were considered second rate in many subjects. Its not uncommon for US students to come to top UK/Canada universities to do proper Masters degrees before applying to US grad schools for a PhD. This is something you might want to research.

[Aspiringlawstudent]

Dartmouth is in the Ivy League.

It might not be Harvard, but it's still an excellent college.

[NYU2012]

I would not recommend getting a masters in general liberal arts - tuition is outrageously expensive and it's not relevant to what you're hoping to do -- to adcoms, it looks like you didn't know what you wanted to do with your life and decided, out of the blue, to study liberal arts at a graduate level for.... some unknown reason.

[Chr0n]

This seems to take the same route as all those 'Go to Oxbridge because all the other unis won't mean anything' threads.

While Dartmouth may not be Harvard, it IS still a very good university. How someone could say that it would not enhanche your CV elludes me. Further study, particular at a place of the calibre of Dartmouth will most definitely enhanche your CV. OF COURSE you would still have to get work experience and internships during holidays etc. on top of that.

The only thing I find a bit irritating is the General Liberal Arts master. I mean the point of the bachelors / master system (IMO) is to study a general area in your bachelor (hint: ask yourself why there are so many liberal arts undergraduate colleges in the us) and specialize in a field of your interest in your master (be it economics, law, politics or whatever). The use of a general degree on top of a general degree, especially with the immense cost of tuition, board, accommodation, etc. in the US, elludes me.

TL/DR: IMO going to Dartmouth is a good thing, it's not Harvard, but still an excellent university. However, I would do a specialist degree as a masters, instead of a liberal arts one.

[Gridiron-Gangster]

(Original post by NYU2012)
I would not recommend getting a masters in general liberal arts - tuition is outrageously expensive and it's not relevant to what you're hoping to do -- to adcoms, it looks like you didn't know what you wanted to do with your life and decided, out of the blue, to study liberal arts at a graduate level for.... some unknown reason.

Well it's Medicine I want to do but my first degree isn't in a Science even though my A-levels were. As far as work experience is concerned I've done shedloads in the UK and abroad aswell as voluntary work at a hospice weekly for the last few years. UK grad med schools look at the Bachelor's classification first (2:1) so anything added to that is more a bonus in their eyes and imo as opposed to being the deciding factor.

I mean doing a master's a good US university will hellp to strengthen my application and look more academically impressive but without the 2:1 in a first degree and the important Work Experience the admissions tutors wouldn't give two hoots about whether or not my Master's was from Harvard, Dartmouth, Chicago, MIT etc.

From what I've seen on forums and on websites Dartmouth alumni tend to occupy good positions and in the UK most Dartmouth grads seem to be based in The City so it can't be all bad.

[Gridiron-Gangster]

(Original post by Chr0n)
This seems to take the same route as all those 'Go to Oxbridge because all the other unis won't mean anything' threads.

While Dartmouth may not be Harvard, it IS still a very good university. How someone could say that it would not enhanche your CV elludes me. Further study, particular at a place of the calibre of Dartmouth will most definitely enhanche your CV. OF COURSE you would still have to get work experience and internships during holidays etc. on top of that.

The only thing I find a bit irritating is the General Liberal Arts master. I mean the point of the bachelors / master system (IMO) is to study a general area in your bachelor (hint: ask yourself why there are so many liberal arts undergraduate colleges in the us) and specialize in a field of your interest in your master (be it economics, law, politics or whatever). The use of a general degree on top of a general degree, especially with the immense cost of tuition, board, accommodation, etc. in the US, elludes me.

TL/DR: IMO going to Dartmouth is a good thing, it's not Harvard, but still an excellent university. However, I would do a specialist degree as a masters, instead of a liberal arts one.

Well let's be honest there aren't many universities which compare to Harvard's history and prestige. I always gathered that whilst it's part of the Ivy League, Dartmouth was always seen as the little brother of HYP. But even back to my school days Dartmouth was always regarded very highly and I remember a tutor at school saying "expect admissions requirements to be as stringent of those for Oxbridge and perhaps more so for HYP".

[NYU2012]

(Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
Well it's Medicine I want to do but my first degree isn't in a Science even though my A-levels were. As far as work experience is concerned I've done shedloads in the UK and abroad aswell as voluntary work at a hospice weekly for the last few years. UK grad med schools look at the Bachelor's classification first (2:1) so anything added to that is more a bonus in their eyes and imo as opposed to being the deciding factor.

I mean doing a master's a good US university will hellp to strengthen my application and look more academically impressive but without the 2:1 in a first degree and the important Work Experience the admissions tutors wouldn't give two hoots about whether or not my Master's was from Harvard, Dartmouth, Chicago, MIT etc.

From what I've seen on forums and on websites Dartmouth alumni tend to occupy good positions and in the UK most Dartmouth grads seem to be based in The City so it can't be all bad.

But your degree is not in a relevant subject area, so it will look as though you had no idea what you wanted to do with your life.

Secondly, if you're worried about not being able to get into medical school because you didn't get a first In your first degree, youre just as likely, if not even more likely, to be rejected by Dartmouth! As an ivy league school, it's just as selective as Oxford/Cambridge. Dartmouth, as an ivy league school, as well as all the other top schools in the US are looking for very high performance in undergraduate programs. The average GPA for most graduate programs at top schools is above the equivalent of a 2:1.

In all reality, going for a masters in something you don't want to actually study, which is apparently medicine, is waste of time and money. Do you have $60,000 USD to blow on a masters degree program? Mantpy masters programs are actually two years, that's $120,000 USD.

Going for a masters program in an unrelated subject is not helpful to you; sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear, but that's just how it is.

[Gridiron-Gangster]

(Original post by NYU2012)
But your degree is not in a relevant subject area, so it will look as though you had no idea what you wanted to do with your life.

Secondly, if you're worried about not being able to get into medical school because you didn't get a first In your first degree, youre just as likely, if not even more likely, to be rejected by Dartmouth! As an ivy league school, it's just as selective as Oxford/Cambridge. Dartmouth, as an ivy league school, as well as all the other top schools in the US are looking for very high performance in undergraduate programs. The average GPA for most graduate programs at top schools is above the equivalent of a 2:1.

You realise a number of Graduate Medicine programmes in the UK don't specify a particular discipline at all? So I doubt it'd raise questions such as that.

Also more than a third of students admitted to the course at Oxford and Cambridge have 2:1s so I doubt not having a 1st is going to damage my chances.

From what I gathered the MLA isn't as competitive as the other programmes and mroe geared towards "non-traditional" students.

[NYU2012]

(Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
You realise a number of Graduate Medicine programmes in the UK don't specify a particular discipline at all? So I doubt it'd raise questions such as that.

No, it may not be specified, but from my knowledge of graduate admissions and admissions in general, they will want to know why you pursued a degree in a non-relevant subject if your interest was in medicine.

(Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
Also more than a third of students admitted to the course at Oxford and Cambridge have 2:1s so I doubt not having a 1st is going to damage my chances.

You have no idea how competitive graduate admissions at top U.S. schools actually is, do you? Most top US universities enjoy LESS than 10% admission rates to graduate programs; average GPA is usually around 3.7, which is equivalent to a first. Some have somewhat lower GPAs, around 3.6 which is right on the cusp of a first.

Finally, where are you getting the almost $60,000 per year attendance cost for this masters program?

This seems more like some whim you had "Oh, I want to go to some top American University because they're prestigious" rather than something you've actually thought about and researched.

[Gridiron-Gangster]

(Original post by NYU2012)
But your degree is not in a relevant subject area, so it will look as though you had no idea what you wanted to do with your life.

Secondly, if you're worried about not being able to get into medical school because you didn't get a first In your first degree, youre just as likely, if not even more likely, to be rejected by Dartmouth! As an ivy league school, it's just as selective as Oxford/Cambridge. Dartmouth, as an ivy league school, as well as all the other top schools in the US are looking for very high performance in undergraduate programs. The average GPA for most graduate programs at top schools is above the equivalent of a 2:1.

In all reality, going for a masters in something you don't want to actually study, which is apparently medicine, is waste of time and money. Do you have $60,000 USD to blow on a masters degree program? Mantpy masters programs are actually two years, that's $120,000 USD.

Going for a masters program in an unrelated subject is not helpful to you; sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear, but that's just how it is.

seeing as you are neither a medic nor an admissions tutor I doubt you're in any position to say whether or not my application to Medicine would be successful.

As for the money issue well that's not really anyone's business but I doubt I'd have considered the option unless I was able to me the financial needs. The course takes about 1.5 years to complete but you have an upper limit of 6 years (I wouldn't want to spend that long) and you only need to be in residence at Dartmouth for a year anyway so I could feasibly complete the compulsorry courses and then depart to complete my thesis away from campus.

Whilst I'm not taking anything for granted Dartmouth told me that their requirement is a 3.0 GPA which I believe is a 2:2 and I exceed that already with a 2:1 which they said is fine. Also they said they roughly have an 80% acceptance rate for the MLA so touchwood I don't screw up the essays and the phone interview my chances could be good so I'll probably press ahead with it.

As for the Graduate medicine bit having been to Open days written to admissions tutors for advice and feedback ad done loads of work experience paid and voluntary I don't think there is any doubt in my mind at least that I am very much interested in Medicine. Most programmes for graduate medicine don't ask for a science fist degree (although I did quite a lot of exxperimetal sciences components to my degree) hence why they ask for the UKCAT/BMAT/GAMSAT, lots of work experience and science A-levels (which I have).

Sure it's not the bog standard Biomed to GEP but I've ticked most of the boxes so far so I guess I have as good a chance as anyone else. But unless I apply I'll never know.