[Thinker03]

Dear Muslims,

We all know that apostasy in Islam is dealt with death penalty.

I was raised by a Muslim family in a Muslim country, and I eventually left Islam and became an Atheist, and I now try to reason with Theist people that they are wrong, and that Atheism is the correct and healthy way of thinking and looking at the universe.

So, according to Islam I am the perfect example of apostasy, which means that I should be killed.

So, hypothetically imagine if you were standing right in front of me, having a gun in your hand, will you kill me?

I'm assuming that you have official amnesty, you will NOT go to jail or face any legal punishment for this.

Please answer the poll or comment here. If you select NO, you are doing something against your religion (and wish of god), so please explain why

Thanks

[Thinker03]

(Original post by AkaJetson)
You should have put votes to public, now people will vote "Yes I will kill you" to make muslims look bad.

I can't change it anymore, so it's up to the Moderators.

[AceStacks]

Quran 2:256 "There is no compulsion in religion" in addition i can give you a list of over 200 well respected scholars both classical and modern that hold the opinion apostasy doesn't carry the death penalty. Remember you need god, god doesn't need you!


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

[High VOLTAGE]

(Original post by Thinker03)
Dear Muslims,

We all know that apostasy in Islam is dealt with death penalty.

I was raised by a Muslim family in a Muslim country, and I eventually left Islam and became an Atheist, and I now try to reason with Theist people that they are wrong, and that Atheism is the correct and healthy way of thinking and looking at the universe.

So, according to Islam I am the perfect example of apostasy, which means that I should be killed.

So, hypothetically imagine if you were standing right in front of me, having a gun in your hand, will you kill me?

I'm assuming that you have official amnesty, you will NOT go to jail or face any legal punishment for this.

Please answer the poll or comment here. If you select NO, you are doing something against your religion (and wish of god), so please explain why

Thanks

So as an atheist you believe that nothing created the universe and everything within it?

[Student296]

It's impossible, you will kill them with your stupidity before they can kill you.

[sukee]

(Original post by Thinker03)
Dear Muslims,

We all know that apostasy in Islam is dealt with death penalty.

I was raised by a Muslim family in a Muslim country, and I eventually left Islam and became an Atheist, and I now try to reason with Theist people that they are wrong, and that Atheism is the correct and healthy way of thinking and looking at the universe.

So, according to Islam I am the perfect example of apostasy, which means that I should be killed.

So, hypothetically imagine if you were standing right in front of me, having a gun in your hand, will you kill me?

I'm assuming that you have official amnesty, you will NOT go to jail or face any legal punishment for this.

Please answer the poll or comment here. If you select NO, you are doing something against your religion (and wish of god), so please explain why

Thanks

Yes dear, I will kill you.

[Charzhino]

What kind of question is this. In Islam the penalty for apostasy is death. Just like the punishment for murder in America is death penalty. Your essentially asking if any American would shoot a gun to a murderers head, the reaction would be mixed. Your basically playing with people's emotions and not raising any debate about scriptural law.

[Thinker03]

(Original post by High VOLTAGE)
So as an atheist you believe that nothing created the universe and everything within it?

Correct, I do not believe in an intelligent creator of the universe, but that's not the discussion here.

(Original post by Student296)
It's impossible, you will kill them with your stupidity before they can kill you.

Luckily my stupidity is my own and will not kill anyone, however, their beliefs is that I should die.

(Original post by sukee)
Yes dear, I will kill you.

Great answer, thanks!

(Original post by Charzhino)
What kind of question is this. In Islam the penalty for apostasy is death. Just like the punishment for murder in America is death penalty. Your essentially asking if any American would shoot a gun to a murderers head, the reaction would be mixed. Your basically playing with people's emotions and not raising any debate about scriptural law.

The American law is not the word of God, people can (and do) disagree with that. However the law of Islam cannot be disagreed with by the Muslims, they should accept and believe it because they're supposedly come from God.

So again, will you kill me, or believe that I should be killed if you cant personally do it?

[mariachi]

(Original post by AceStacks)
Remember you need god, god doesn't need you!

of course he needs me

he's not been managing so well, recently

[Maxima]

(Original post by Thinker03)
But the laws of Islam clearly say that they should care about me being an ex-Muslim Atheist, and I should be killed.

No they don't. You see, I hate posting quotes, but for the purpose of this thread, I will.

"They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper."

You should be killed right?

Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.

This is the verse right afterwards. People love to just post things completely out of context and use it to further their point, which is a stupid one in the first place. You shouldn't be killed.

Pointless thread, looking for trouble.

[patrickinator]

(Original post by Thinker03)
Dear Muslims,

We all know that apostasy in Islam is dealt with death penalty.

I was raised by a Muslim family in a Muslim country, and I eventually left Islam and became an Atheist, and I now try to reason with Theist people that they are wrong, and that Atheism is the correct and healthy way of thinking and looking at the universe.

So, according to Islam I am the perfect example of apostasy, which means that I should be killed.

So, hypothetically imagine if you were standing right in front of me, having a gun in your hand, will you kill me?

I'm assuming that you have official amnesty, you will NOT go to jail or face any legal punishment for this.

Please answer the poll or comment here. If you select NO, you are doing something against your religion (and wish of god), so please explain why

Thanks

Good on you

[Thinker03]

(Original post by Maxima)
No they don't. You see, I hate posting quotes, but for the purpose of this thread, I will.

"They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper."

You should be killed right?

Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.

This is the verse right afterwards. People love to just post things completely out of context and use it to further their point, which is a stupid one in the first place. You shouldn't be killed.

Pointless thread, looking for trouble.

I have read both verses and still, I should be killed because 1. I have not taken refuge with any people and 2. I am fighting them, by reasoning and helping others understand that Theism (including Islam) is nothing but unproven claims and Atheism is the sign of a healthy and understanding mind. You people love to complicate simple things, to hide the nature of your belief.

Luckily, you're not the one to judge which thread is pointless. I'm sure if it were up to you, 5/6th of the world population were "pointless people, looking for trouble".

[tazarooni89]

(Original post by Thinker03)
I have read both verses and still, I should be killed because 1. I have not taken refuge with any people and 2. I am fighting them, by reasoning and helping others understand that Theism (including Islam) is nothing but unproven claims and Atheism is the sign of a healthy and understanding mind.

You're just inventing your own meanings for Qur'anic words now.

[K the Failure]

(Original post by Charzhino)
What kind of question is this. In Islam the penalty for apostasy is death. Just like the punishment for murder in America is death penalty. Your essentially asking if any American would shoot a gun to a murderers head, the reaction would be mixed. Your basically playing with people's emotions and not raising any debate about scriptural law.

Not any American. The equivalent entity in your analogy should be something like a US prison executioner as it would be their duty to the state to kill the condemned, just as a it would be the duty for a Muslim to kill the apostate.

The point of the thread was not to raise debate about scriptural law, but merely to show the hypocrisy of western Muslims.

[umarrehman187]

(Original post by PandyAndy)

oh yeh!

[umarrehman187]

(Original post by Thinker03)
I have read both verses and still, I should be killed because 1. I have not taken refuge with any people and 2. I am fighting them, by reasoning and helping others understand that Theism (including Islam) is nothing but unproven claims and Atheism is the sign of a healthy and understanding mind. You people love to complicate simple things, to hide the nature of your belief.

Luckily, you're not the one to judge which thread is pointless. I'm sure if it were up to you, 5/6th of the world population were "pointless people, looking for trouble".

if you really wanna die that bad just go jump off a cliff mate

[Truthman]

(Original post by AceStacks)
Quran 2:256 "There is no compulsion in religion" in addition i can give you a list of over 200 well respected scholars both classical and modern that hold the opinion apostasy doesn't carry the death penalty. Remember you need god, god doesn't need you!


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

Quran 2:256 "There is no compulsion in religion"

“[al-Tawbah 9:5] This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword). THESE AND SIMILAR VERSES ABROGATE THE VERSES WHICH SAY THAT THERE IS NO COMPULSION TO BECOME A MUSLIM.” http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/34770

And when We exchange a verse in the place of another verse and Allah knows very well what He is sending down -- they say, 'Thou art a mere forger!' Nay, but the most of them have no knowledge. S. 16:101 Arberry

And for whatever verse We abrogate or cast into oblivion, We bring a better or the like of it; knowest thou not that Allah is powerful over everything? S. 2:106 Arberry


When speaking in the West, Muslim commentators, deliberately hide this major Islamic doctrine, called in Arabic "Al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh" (the abrogator and the abrogated). The Arabic etymology of the word is "naskh" means a legal method that allows annulment of certain verses from the Quran.

Abu al. 'Ala' b. al-Shikhkhir said: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) abrogated some of his commands by others, just as the Qur'an abrogates some part with the other. (Sahih Muslim Book #003, Hadith #0675) http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHad...&book=&start=0


Sa'id b. Jubair reported: I said to Ibn Abbas: Will the repentance of that person be accepted who kills a believer intentionally? He said: No. I recited to him this verse of Sura al-Furqan (xix.):" And those who call not upon another god with Allah and slay not the soul which Allah has forbidden except in the cause of justice" to the end of the verse. He said: This is a Meccan verse which has been abrogated by a verse revealed at Medina: (Sahih Muslim Book #043, Hadith #7173) http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHad...rds_display=10


Qatādah ibn Di‘āmah observed: “Everything in the Qur’an advising avoidance of conflict with the disbelievers stands abrogated by the āyat al-sayf and āyat al-qitāl.
http://iiit.org/Research/ScholarsSum...1/Default.aspx

TABARI: Every verse of the Koran that does not have killing has been Abrogated: ÞóÇáó ÃóÈõæ ÚõÈóíúÏóÉ : ßõáø ÂíóÉ ÝöíåóÇ ÊóÑúß áöáúÞöÊóÇáö Ýóåöíó ãóßøöíøóÉ ãóäúÓõæÎóÉ ÈöÇáúÞöÊóÇáö . ÞóÇáó ÇöÈúä ÚóØöíøóÉ : æóÍõßúãå ÈöÃóäøó åóÐöåö ÇáúÂíóÉ ãóßøöíøóÉ ÖóÚöíÝ ; áöÃóäøó ãõÚóÇäóÏóÇÊ ÇáúíóåõæÏ ÅöäøóãóÇ ßóÇäóÊú ÈöÇáúãóÏöíäóÉö . http://www.blogtalkradio.com/radio-j...-and-christian

in addition i can give you a list of over 200 well respected scholars both classical and modern that hold the opinion apostasy doesn't carry the death penalty.

Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi. Qaradawi says: "That is why the Muslim jurists are unanimous that apostates must be punished, yet they differ as to determining the kind of punishment to be inflicted upon them. The majority of them, including the four main schools of jurisprudence (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi`i, and Hanbali) as well as the other four schools of jurisprudence (the four Shiite schools of Az-Zaidiyyah, Al-Ithna-`ashriyyah, Al-Ja`fariyyah, and Az-Zaheriyyah) agree that apostates must be executed." http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/09/jo...aw-for-us.html


TAFSIR AL JALALAYN.
and that you do not slay the life which God has made sacred, EXCEPT RIGHTFULLY, AS IN THE CASE OF retaliation, or [as] THE PRESCRIBED PUNISHMENT FOR APOSTASY. Sura 6.151. http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2

TAFSIR IBN ABBAS:
(And that ye slay not the life which Allah hath made sacred, SAVE IN THE COURSE OF JUSTICE) as a result of cases such as retaliation, stoning, APOSTASY. (This He hath commanded you) in the Qur'an, 6.151. Ibn Abbas http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2

Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." ( SAHIHN BUKHARI: Book #83, Hadith #17) http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHad...rch_word=exact

Narrated 'Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'" (Sahih Bukhari, Book #84, Hadith #57) http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHad...rch_word=exact

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet embraced me and said, "O Allah! Teach him (the knowledge of) the Book (Quran). Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 375: http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/c...ml#009.092.375

Remember you need god, god doesn't need you!

Then clearly allah is not God because allah NEEDS muslims to kill to establish allahs religion:

Sura 2.224: “Wa ‘QATILOO’ fee sabeeli Allahi waiAAlamoo anna Allaha sameeAAun AAaleemun.” 2.244.

And fight/kill in God's way/road/sake, and know that allah (is) hearing/listening, knowledgeable. 2.244. Ahmed Ali

“So fight in Allah’s way, in order to elevate His religion” 2.244 Tafsir Al Jalalayn. http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2

Therefore, allah cannot elevate his own religion by himself, he needs muslims to kill non muslims to elevate allahs religion.

[h_a_95]

(Original post by Truthman)
“

Therefore, allah cannot elevate his own religion by himself, he needs muslims to kill non muslims to elevate allahs religion.

I actually though you were fairly intelligent and done your research, until you said this.

[Truthman]

(Original post by h_a_95)
I actually though you were fairly intelligent and done your research, until you said this.

Think about what you said. You accused me of saying something, but if you took the time to read my post you will see that those are not my words or teachings. They are the words of AL JALALAYN who is one of the biggest mullah's to have ever lived:

TAFSIR AL JALALAYN:
“So fight in Allah’s way, in order to elevate His religion” 2.244 Tafsir Al Jalalayn. http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2

Tafsīr al-Jalālayn (Tafsir of the two Jalals) is a classical Sunni tafsir of the Qur'an, composed first by Jalal ad-Din al-Mahalli in 1459 and then completed by his student Jalal ad-Din as-Suyuti in 1505, thus its name. It is recognised as one of the most popular exegeses of the Qur'an today http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tafsir_al-Jalalayn

Fight in God’s cause and remember that He is all hearing and all knowing. Sura 2.44 Abdel Haleem

The above shows that allah has a cause which he needs muslims to fight for.

Therefore, allah needs muslims to kill in order for allah to be the only god.

Only false idol gods need their followers to kill for the "cause of the god".

Only a false idol god needs mere human beings to fight for the cause of the god.

A true God is the one who actually does the fighting for his own cause and his the cause of his people:

For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down TO FIGHT for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof. Isaiah 31:4.

[Venomilys]

(Original post by Thinker03)
I have read both verses and still, I should be killed because 1. I have not taken refuge with any people and 2. I am fighting them, by reasoning and helping others understand that Theism (including Islam) is nothing but unproven claims and Atheism is the sign of a healthy and understanding mind. You people love to complicate simple things, to hide the nature of your belief.

Luckily, you're not the one to judge which thread is pointless. I'm sure if it were up to you, 5/6th of the world population were "pointless people, looking for trouble".

I know how you feel, the light-headedness when you try to reason with a theist... they'll not listen, they'll just reinterpret the verses to suit their own opinion, never peering on the other side of the argument and ONLY the side that assumes Islam is the undeniable truth. Logical muslims...

"Hey, atheist, you certainly have a point. I'll contemplate the religion I was so conveniently brainwashed to believe from birth". <--- not going to happen.