[TitanicTeutonicPhil]

Hi,

I have my Masters graduation ceremony the week after next and - given the ridiculous rent prices my alma mater's
preferred supplier asks for - am in the process of buying proper attire.

The issue seems to be more complex than anticipated. Below I've compiled some questions that have come up,
maybe someone can help out who has looked into the topic deeper:

(1) Is it a faux-pas to get an American style (closed front) robe? I did part of my Bachelors over there, like their
collegiate spirit, and.... they're much cheaper.

(2) There appear to be different robe cuts for Bachelors, Masters, and Doctoral degrees - does anyone really care
which one you wear? Price differences are considerable.

(3) I'd like to get either a scarf or a hood, just because it looks nice. Do they actually mean something?
The Wikipedia entry for Academic dress says they do in New Zealand (scarf for diplomas, hood for degrees) - what
about the UK?

(4) Do the colours of the tassel and scarf/hood actually stand for something or are they just university-specific?
Should I match the colours to the uni logo or the crest (mine has both, and they're quite different)

Thanks in advance for all replies.

BTW: I will have a complete set for sale on July 25th, will fit 5'11-6'3 guys. To be collected in central London

[somethingbeautiful]

(Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
Hi,

I have my Masters graduation ceremony the week after next and - given the ridiculous rent prices my alma mater's
preferred supplier asks for - am in the process of buying proper attire.

The issue seems to be more complex than anticipated. Below I've compiled some questions that have come up,
maybe someone can help out who has looked into the topic deeper:

(1) Is it a faux-pas to get an American style (closed front) robe? I did part of my Bachelors over there, like their
collegiate spirit, and.... they're much cheaper.

(2) There appear to be different robe cuts for Bachelors, Masters, and Doctoral degrees - does anyone really care
which one you wear? Price differences are considerable.

(3) I'd like to get either a scarf or a hood, just because it looks nice. Do they actually mean something?
The Wikipedia entry for Academic dress says they do in New Zealand (scarf for diplomas, hood for degrees) - what
about the UK?

(4) Do the colours of the tassel and scarf/hood actually stand for something or are they just university-specific?
Should I match the colours to the uni logo or the crest (mine has both, and they're quite different)

Thanks in advance for all replies.

BTW: I will have a complete set for sale on July 25th, will fit 5'11-6'3 guys. To be collected in central London

Ultimately, the answer to all of those questions is that it depends entirely on the university concerned. At my uni we have to hire out academic dress from Ede and Ravenscroft otherwise we will not be admitted to our degree.

The cut/colour of our gown and the colour of our hoods/trim do mean something. For example:

http://www.liv.ac.uk/graduation/CeremonialDress2011.pdf

So yeah, I wouldn't be admitted to my degree if I turned up in the colours that indicate an entirely different qualification.

It's best to check with your uni.

[hobnob]

(Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
Hi,

I have my Masters graduation ceremony the week after next and - given the ridiculous rent prices my alma mater's
preferred supplier asks for - am in the process of buying proper attire.

The issue seems to be more complex than anticipated. Below I've compiled some questions that have come up,
maybe someone can help out who has looked into the topic deeper:

(1) Is it a faux-pas to get an American style (closed front) robe? I did part of my Bachelors over there, like their
collegiate spirit, and.... they're much cheaper.

(2) There appear to be different robe cuts for Bachelors, Masters, and Doctoral degrees - does anyone really care
which one you wear? Price differences are considerable.

(3) I'd like to get either a scarf or a hood, just because it looks nice. Do they actually mean something?
The Wikipedia entry for Academic dress says they do in New Zealand (scarf for diplomas, hood for degrees) - what
about the UK?

(4) Do the colours of the tassel and scarf/hood actually stand for something or are they just university-specific?
Should I match the colours to the uni logo or the crest (mine has both, and they're quite different)

Thanks in advance for all replies.

BTW: I will have a complete set for sale on July 25th, will fit 5'11-6'3 guys. To be collected in central London

You mean to say the Ede & Ravenscroft Prize doesn't come with a free gown?

Anyway, normally your university will have a preferred style of gown, possibly different styles that go with different degree types. Obviously it's your ceremony and no-one will kick you out or refuse to let you graduate for wearing the wrong type of gown, but if yours is a very different style from everybody else's, you might stick out like a sore thumb. If you don't care about that, just go for the cheapest gown you can find and if anyone asks just shrug and say 'I must have selected the wrong type in the dropdown menu'.
Hoods are associated with particular degrees and are only really worn for graduation ceremonies, but like the gown style they're university-specific, so it may make sense to look up which is the correct one for you to wear. Again, I don't think anyone's going to make a fuss if you turn up in the wrong hood or without a hood, but you might stand out.
Scarves mean nothing, they're just so you can show the world that you're at the University of Whatever.

So the short version is: technically you're supposed to follow your university's style (and the easiest way of doing that is just by renting them from the overpriced company), but in practice you can probably do whatever you like and get away with it.

[gutenberg]

(Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
Hi,

I have my Masters graduation ceremony the week after next and - given the ridiculous rent prices my alma mater's
preferred supplier asks for - am in the process of buying proper attire.

The issue seems to be more complex than anticipated. Below I've compiled some questions that have come up,
maybe someone can help out who has looked into the topic deeper:

(1) Is it a faux-pas to get an American style (closed front) robe? I did part of my Bachelors over there, like their
collegiate spirit, and.... they're much cheaper.

(2) There appear to be different robe cuts for Bachelors, Masters, and Doctoral degrees - does anyone really care
which one you wear? Price differences are considerable.

(3) I'd like to get either a scarf or a hood, just because it looks nice. Do they actually mean something?
The Wikipedia entry for Academic dress says they do in New Zealand (scarf for diplomas, hood for degrees) - what
about the UK?

(4) Do the colours of the tassel and scarf/hood actually stand for something or are they just university-specific?
Should I match the colours to the uni logo or the crest (mine has both, and they're quite different)

Thanks in advance for all replies.

BTW: I will have a complete set for sale on July 25th, will fit 5'11-6'3 guys. To be collected in central London

I have never seen anyone wear a closed-front robe at a graduation in either the UK or Ireland, because (moving on to your second point) there are differences between Bachelors, Masters and Doctoral gowns, so if you turn up in the wrong one (or even just the wrong robe full stop, such as the closed-front one) they can turn you away as improperly dressed for the ceremony (both my undergraduate and Master's universities explicitly stated this).

Hoods are not arbitrary, and you have to wear the correct one for your degree- no matching of colours to the crest, or choosing one just because you like it. Same with tassels and so on, they have specific meanings and you can't just wear them because they look cool. For instance, for my upcoming Master's graduation I have to wear a Bachelor's gown, and a royal blue hood. I cannot wear anything else: even though our dress code is black and white, and the undergraduate hood is also black and white and therefore looks better, I still can't just wear it for that reason, I'm being conferred with an MPhil and so have to wear the MPhil hood.

I can't understand how it is cheaper to buy the stuff though?? Academic dress is expensive to rent, yes, but also to buy! My rental cost me £35, but I also had to buy a gown for during the year and that was £30 (second-hand, to buy new it would have been closer to £60!), and I can assume that hoods, because of the silks etc involved, would also be very expensive.

[milienhaus]

(Original post by hobnob)
You mean to say the Ede & Ravenscroft Prize doesn't come with a free gown?

Anyway, normally your university will have a preferred style of gown, possibly different styles that go with different degree types. Obviously it's your ceremony and no-one will kick you out or refuse to let you graduate for wearing the wrong type of gown, but if yours is a very different style from everybody else's, you might stick out like a sore thumb. If you don't care about that, just go for the cheapest gown you can find and if anyone asks just shrug and say 'I must have selected the wrong type in the dropdown menu'.
Hoods are associated with particular degrees and are only really worn for graduation ceremonies, but like the gown style they're university-specific, so it may make sense to look up which is the correct one for you to wear. Again, I don't think anyone's going to make a fuss if you turn up in the wrong hood or without a hood, but you might stand out.
Scarves mean nothing, they're just so you can show the world that you're at the University of Whatever.

So the short version is: technically you're supposed to follow your university's style (and the easiest way of doing that is just by renting them from the overpriced company), but in practice you can probably do whatever you like and get away with it.

You say this, but it's very university specific. If you rocked up to a graduation ceremony at my university in some random gown and hood they definitely would not let you graduate.

[hobnob]

(Original post by milienhaus)
You say this, but it's very university specific. If you rocked up to a graduation ceremony at my university in some random gown and hood they definitely would not let you graduate.

They might say that, but at the end of the day it's just a ceremony. The actual graduation is independent of it. Of course there's little point in attending the ceremony in the first place if you don't want to play along with the dress-up game, but really there's nothing they can do to stop you from graduating.

[TitanicTeutonicPhil]

(Original post by hobnob)
You mean to say the Ede & Ravenscroft Prize doesn't come with a free gown?

Excellent point. Unfortunately (or rather fortunately) it was only cash and a certificate.

(Original post by hobnob)
So the short version is: technically you're supposed to follow your university's style (and the easiest way of doing that is just by renting them from the overpriced company), but in practice you can probably do whatever you like and get away with it.

Kinda clashed with what the person below you said. Will speak to my uni to find out. Thanks anyway.

[gutenberg]

(Original post by hobnob)
They might say that, but at the end of the day it's just a ceremony. The actual graduation is independent of it. Of course there's little point in attending the ceremony in the first place if you don't want to play along with the dress-up game, but really there's nothing they can do to stop you from graduating.

Your degree is conferred during the ceremony, so how can you say it's independent of it? If you are not admitted to the ceremony (for whatever reason) then your degree won't be conferred and you won't have graduated?

Edit: I suppose you can be conferred in abstentia, and thus still have graduated. However if you went to the bother of turning up to the ceremony it would just be a little odd not to adhere to the rules and risk being refused entry?

[milienhaus]

(Original post by hobnob)
They might say that, but at the end of the day it's just a ceremony. The actual graduation is independent of it. Of course there's little point in attending the ceremony in the first place if you don't want to play along with the dress-up game, but really there's nothing they can do to stop you from graduating.

Oh yeah, you'll get your degree obviously, but you wouldn't be allowed to attend the ceremony. Given that the OP is going to the bother of tracking down other gowns etc it seems like he wants to go to it so thats what I was advising on.

[gutenberg]

(Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
Excellent point. Unfortunately (or rather fortunately) it was only cash and a certificate.



Kinda clashed with what the person below you said. Will speak to my uni to find out. Thanks anyway.

Have you checked out this page? http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/current.studen...aduation.shtml

Has all the info - including the line that the 'different colours of the gowns and hoods indicate the type of award', which suggests to me that you're supposed to wear the gown & hood appropriate your degree. Why would you want to be mistaken for an undergraduate on your Masters graduation day?

[hobnob]

(Original post by gutenberg)
Your degree is conferred during the ceremony, so how can you say it's independent of it? If you are not admitted to the ceremony (for whatever reason) then your degree won't be conferred and you won't have graduated?

The degree is effectively conferred the moment the certificate is stamped and signed. All they really do in the ceremony is hand you the certificate - and sometimes not even that. I got mine after the ceremony, from the college principal.

[TitanicTeutonicPhil]

(Original post by gutenberg)
I have never seen anyone wear a closed-front robe at a graduation in either the UK or Ireland, [...]

Strange, they're on sale for cheap on ebay UK.

(Original post by gutenberg)
[...] so if you turn up in the wrong one (or even just the wrong robe full stop, such as the closed-front one) they can turn you away as improperly dressed for the ceremony (both my undergraduate and Master's universities explicitly stated this).

That'd be extremely harsh. I mean, the ceremony doesn't mean that much anyway. I already have my Masters certificate, even my alumni ID card.

(Original post by gutenberg)
Hoods are not arbitrary, and you have to wear the correct one for your degree- no matching of colours to the crest, or choosing one just because you like it. Same with tassels and so on, they have specific meanings and you can't just wear them because they look cool.

That's what I assumed, but then I believe different universities are strict about this to differing degrees.

(Original post by gutenberg)
I can't understand how it is cheaper to buy the stuff though?? Academic dress is expensive to rent, yes, but also to buy! My rental cost me £35, but I also had to buy a gown for during the year and that was £30 (second-hand, to buy new it would have been closer to £60!), and I can assume that hoods, because of the silks etc involved, would also be very expensive.

Well, renting from my uni's supplier would be GBP49, and the cheapest sets (robe and hat) on eBay Germany start at EUR30, including shipping! Even with a hood I'd not exceed the renting price, and I could sell it off again afterwards.

[gutenberg]

(Original post by hobnob)
The degree is effectively conferred the moment the certificate is stamped and signed. All they really do in the ceremony is hand you the certificate - and sometimes not even that. I got mine after the ceremony, from the college principal.

Fair enough, though ceremonies are different. At my undergraduate university you were handed the cert during the ceremony, and a proclamation was read out 'conferring' it on you, and only then had you graduated. It was the same with people in abstentia too, they had their names called out and the degree 'conferred' by proclamation, the only missing bit was their being handed the certs!

[TitanicTeutonicPhil]

(Original post by gutenberg)
Have you checked out this page? http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/current.studen...aduation.shtml

Has all the info - including the line that the 'different colours of the gowns and hoods indicate the type of award', which suggests to me that you're supposed to wear the gown & hood appropriate your degree. Why would you want to be mistaken for an undergraduate on your Masters graduation day?

Yup, that's a good pointer. I've already written to them, asking which colour
stands for what etc. and if I won't be admitted if the sleeves go beyond the
elbow

[hobnob]

(Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
Well, renting from my uni's supplier would be GBP49, and the cheapest sets (robe and hat) on eBay Germany start at EUR30, including shipping! Even with a hood I'd not exceed the renting price, and I could sell it off again afterwards.

So all this is just so you'll be able to save about 30 quid?

[kpwxx]

(Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
Hi,

I have my Masters graduation ceremony the week after next and - given the ridiculous rent prices my alma mater's
preferred supplier asks for - am in the process of buying proper attire.

The issue seems to be more complex than anticipated. Below I've compiled some questions that have come up,
maybe someone can help out who has looked into the topic deeper:

(1) Is it a faux-pas to get an American style (closed front) robe? I did part of my Bachelors over there, like their
collegiate spirit, and.... they're much cheaper.

(2) There appear to be different robe cuts for Bachelors, Masters, and Doctoral degrees - does anyone really care
which one you wear? Price differences are considerable.

(3) I'd like to get either a scarf or a hood, just because it looks nice. Do they actually mean something?
The Wikipedia entry for Academic dress says they do in New Zealand (scarf for diplomas, hood for degrees) - what
about the UK?

(4) Do the colours of the tassel and scarf/hood actually stand for something or are they just university-specific?
Should I match the colours to the uni logo or the crest (mine has both, and they're quite different)

Thanks in advance for all replies.

BTW: I will have a complete set for sale on July 25th, will fit 5'11-6'3 guys. To be collected in central London

As others have said, some unis will not admit you to the ceremony unless you're wearing the correct robes. At my uni the colour
of the robes themselves indicates the uni, the coloured strip thing indicates subject and level. My uni (UEA) is one who won't admit those dressed improperly.

The best thing to do is to contact the uni and find out their rules, though bear in mind even if they are more lenient you will look an odd one out and as mentioned above may imply you're doing a different degree/level. But you may not mind that so it's up to you

Xxx

posted from the TSR Android app

[TitanicTeutonicPhil]

(Original post by hobnob)
So all this is just so you'll be able to save about 30 quid?

I'm frugal And a Management Consultant, focussed on saving wherever possible

[gutenberg]

(Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
Strange, they're on sale for cheap on ebay UK.

By all means buy it then if you're determined to, but as hobnob said as well you might stand out a bit.

That'd be extremely harsh. I mean, the ceremony doesn't mean that much anyway. I already have my Masters certificate, even my alumni ID card.

That's what I assumed, but then I believe different universities are strict about this to differing degrees.

As I said in my reply to her, ceremonies are different: some are a lot more serious than others, in that degrees are actually given out then, rather than beforehand. Academic dress is governed by a set of archaic and eccentric rules, and universities can be as strict as they like in enforcing them. The point still stands that you cannot wear the hood of a degree that you haven't achieved, such as you can't wear a doctoral hood if you are receiving a BA, and similarly if you bought a hood which was actually the MA hood of, say, Liverpool (to take another poster's example), you haven't earned that degree either, 'cos you didn't attend Liverpool. Hoods are meant to display both your degree and the uni you got it from, so naturally universities want you to wear the right one to the ceremony.

Well, renting from my uni's supplier would be GBP49, and the cheapest sets (robe and hat) on eBay Germany start at EUR30, including shipping! Even with a hood I'd not exceed the renting price, and I could sell it off again afterwards.

Is there much of a market for second-hand gowns and random hoods?

[hobnob]

(Original post by gutenberg)
Fair enough, though ceremonies are different. At my undergraduate university you were handed the cert during the ceremony, and a proclamation was read out 'conferring' it on you, and only then had you graduated. It was the same with people in abstentia too, they had their names called out and the degree 'conferred' by proclamation, the only missing bit was their being handed the certs!

Even so, I doubt any university would actually carry out the threat of not letting you graduate for having turned up in the wrong type of gown, to the extent of telling the chancellor not to read out your name from the list...
For what it's worth, though, I agree with you: there's little point in attending the ceremony in the first place if you're not going to play along with its rules, I'm only saying that if the OP did turn up in the wrong gown he'd still get away with it - especially if he pleaded ignorance and said 'I'm so sorry, we don't usually have gowns in my home country and I got confused'.

[TitanicTeutonicPhil]

(Original post by kpwxx)
[...] you will look an odd one out [...]

Actually wouldn't mind that; highlights my prominent position as having
graduated top of my year