[pshewitt1]

(Original post by Jack93o)
no idea, all I know is that the universities themselves have to update it, not UCAS.

So assume nothing for now, ring up the unis you're interested in and ask for definite whether they still have spaces

it was more for thinking if I didn't make the grades will they still let me on considering how many places are left :/

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by HotfireLegend)
Durham's on that list, as is Birmingham... Hmm. I thought you had to pull out of Extra and those two are places where I would have thought they'd have filled up, thus this is an Extra list wherein many of these unis did not pull out?

don't fully understand, sorry?

[TheSownRose]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
I put a link in an edit to my original post? it's more extra but still...

You've just posted a link to the alphabetical course search... That's every course that is run in every university.

In any case, Extra is not directly comparable. Extra and Clearing serve two different purposes; the former is to give out more offers, the latter is to match applicants without a place to a place without a student to fill it. A course in Extra does not mean it has places left.

Also, Extra was opt-out and some universities didn't bother, hence it shows they were in Extra when they weren't really.

[Jack93o]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
it was more for thinking if I didn't make the grades will they still let me on considering how many places are left :/

dunno, be skeptical though

they've no doubt prepared for situations like this, which is why they give out more offers than there are places, and they could always accept fresh applications from other students who have far-exceeded their firm choice's requirements

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by TheSownRose)
You've just posted a link to the alphabetical course search... That's every course that is run in every university.

In any case, Extra is not directly comparable. Extra and Clearing serve two different purposes; the former is to give out more offers, the latter is to match applicants without a place to a place without a student to fill it. A course in Extra does not mean it has places left.

Also, Extra was opt-out and some universities didn't bother, hence it shows they were in Extra when they weren't really.

yea but the ones with X's by them are available in extra?

although not directly comparable surely has some influence on places left in clearing?

ahh fair, so universities that didn't opt out still show as spaces even if there are none?

[HotfireLegend]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
don't fully understand, sorry?

In the UCAS Extra list, universities have to 'opt out' every year so they don't show. I've heard universities like Durham don't 'opt out', despite not taking part in Extra.

EDIT: What Sown said.

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by HotfireLegend)
In the UCAS Extra list, universities have to 'opt out' every year so they don't show. I've heard universities like Durham don't 'opt out', despite not taking part in Extra.

EDIT: What Sown said.

do you know if Manchester does the same?

[TheSownRose]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
yea but the ones with X's by them are available in extra?

although not directly comparable surely has some influence on places left in clearing?

ahh fair, so universities that didn't opt out still show as spaces even if there are none?

Well, they were in Extra according to UCAS. Extra is closed and yes, if they didn't actively opt out UCAS listed them as being in Extra when they weren't.

Extra and Clearing work somewhat like this:

Say a university has allocated 100 places to Course X. The admissions tutor for Course X wants to get more than 100 offer holders (people who have it as firm or insurance) because some will fail or have it as insurance and succeed at their firm - he wants 200, just for example. He may find that 500 people apply to that course before January 15th, of which he thinks 400 are suitable potential students. He send out these offers, 200 accept them and all is well and good. Come results day, only 80 of them were successful, therefore he enters the 20 remaining places into Clearing to get 20 additional students. It wasn't in Extra, but is in Clearing.

However, he may have found that he only liked 300 of the 500 applicants. He knows from previous years that only half of the people he sends offer to accepts it, therefore he expects to only get 150 offers holders out of that. In order to get the additional 50, he decides to enter the course into Extra so that a new wave of applicants will be able to apply. Come results day, 100 of the offer holders were successful (or failed at their firm), therefore he doesn't enter any places into Clearing. It was in Extra, but not in Clearing.

Obviously extremely simplified, but hopefully you get the gist. What being in Extra can indicate is that a university/course had difficulty attracting applicants, so they are perhaps more likely to have failed to get the 100 students because they couldn't get enough offer holders in the first place.

[HotfireLegend]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
do you know if Manchester does the same?

No idea, but I would imagine the same is done as it is a highly-subscribed uni.

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by TheSownRose)
Well, they were in Extra according to UCAS. Extra is closed and yes, if they didn't actively opt out UCAS listed them as being in Extra when they weren't.

Extra and Clearing work somewhat like this:

Say a university has allocated 100 places to Course X. The admissions tutor for Course X wants to get more than 100 offer holders (people who have it as firm or insurance) because some will fail or have it as insurance and succeed at their firm - he wants 200, just for example. He may find that 500 people apply to that course before January 15th, of which he thinks 400 are suitable potential students. He send out these offers, 200 accept them and all is well and good. Come results day, only 80 of them were successful, therefore he enters the 20 remaining places into Clearing to get 20 additional students. It wasn't in Extra, but is in Clearing.

However, he may have found that he only liked 300 of the 500 applicants. He knows from previous years that only half of the people he sends offer to accepts it, therefore he expects to only get 150 offers holders out of that. In order to get the additional 50, he decides to enter the course into Extra so that a new wave of applicants will be able to apply. Come results day, 100 of the offer holders were successful (or failed at their firm), therefore he doesn't enter any places into Clearing. It was in Extra, but not in Clearing.

Obviously extremely simplified, but hopefully you get the gist. What being in Extra can indicate is that a university/course had difficulty failing to attract applicants, so they are perhaps more likely to have failed to get the 100 students because they couldn't get enough offer holders in the first place.

that's a fantastic explanation, If only I had any rep to give :P

[TenOfThem]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
it was more for thinking if I didn't make the grades will they still let me on considering how many places are left :/

Are you saying that your firm choice of course/university is in extra?

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by TenOfThem)
Are you saying that your firm choice of course/university is in extra?

Yes

[TenOfThem]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
Yes

Most of the places we have visited say that they prefer to take someone who has chosen them but just missed rather than go to clearing

[Zenomorph]

??? bit of a duff question isn't it ? 3x increase in fees over 3 years is a lot of money, unless the OP is a millionaire.

[nulli tertius]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
Hey, was looking through choices as I'm scared I haven't made my offer, was looking for other options hoping there would be 1 or 2 choices somewhere, to my surprise the list is endlessly full of courses? apart from the tuition fee rise surely the effect wouldn't have been so great?

http://search.ucas.com/cgi-bin/hsrun...run?y=2012&w=H

There are expected to be more places in clearing this year due to one of the other changes that occurred this year.

Universities have not been subject to a cap on the number of students they take, provided those students achieve AAB at A level. Some universities have stated an intention to increase their number of places on the back of this. Others will have done so quietly, by turning down fewer applicants with AAB grades. This will pass down the food chain of universities and some (not necessarily those at the bottom because geographical location plays a big part in university choice) will end up with more places in clearing this year.

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by TenOfThem)
Most of the places we have visited say that they prefer to take someone who has chosen them but just missed rather than go to clearing

thank you

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by Zenomorph)
??? bit of a duff question isn't it ? 3x increase in fees over 3 years is a lot of money, unless the OP is a millionaire.

for first time applicants as I have proved time after time are better off than last years group... it should not have had such an effect unless people cannot do basic mathematics and mild algebra.

[Zenomorph]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
for first time applicants as I have proved time after time are better off than last years group... it should not have had such an effect unless people cannot do basic mathematics and mild algebra.

Nooo, how can that be ? Who'd rather pay 9k as opposed to 3.1k per year ?

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by Zenomorph)
Nooo, how can that be ? Who'd rather pay 9k as opposed to 3.1k per year ?

proving my point, the majority of the population cannot read and do basic mathematics.

here are facts, I'm not finding the argument I used last time It's far too long, complex and isn't needed.
A.We pay 9% over 21,000
B.they pay 9% over 15,000
let's take although an unrealistic scenario someone earning an average of let's say of £42,500 for the 30 years before the debt is cancelled.
A. pays 9% of 21500, £1935
B. pays 9% of 27500, £2475
Person B on the old scheme is paying back more per month and will thus potentially not be able to live in higher off areas where jobs are more readily available, they also will not be able to live as well as person A, giving person A more motivation in life to get on as they are healthier and less worried than person B. However person B will have payed off the loan after 4/5 years, while A won't have, I worked out ultimately that A pays back double what B does, I've messed this example up slightly. Person A however also gets more money in terms of maintenance when living through university, less stress of rent, food and other bills meaning they should perform better, thus leading to a higher grade overall and meaning better job offers... far too simplified hence the mess up, but either way,new system works out better...

[Juno]

(Original post by Zenomorph)
??? bit of a duff question isn't it ? 3x increase in fees over 3 years is a lot of money, unless the OP is a millionaire.

But it isn't really an increase, because many people do not pay it back. Statements like that just show you do not understand the system. Many people can be better off under the new system as it's all debt on paper that's written off if you don't pay it back within a set time (and many people can't pay it back within that time).