[alex5455]

(Original post by LucyJ12)
EW. GAY MARRIAGE? Marriage should only be between a woman and a man. That is the norm!!! to have children. etc. But gay marriage? Yuck.. I can't go on..

what a well thought out and reasoned response.

[alex5455]

(Original post by Wirral)
The answer is in Genesis chapter 2. God created the man and the woman for each other and instituted marriage between the two. Read that chapter for the very first wedding ceremony.

but god isnt real, and nor does religion control the state and civil marriage is nothing to do with the church, thats not an argument its you trying to for your religion onto everyone else

[Wirral]

(Original post by Thebigfudge85)
So what makes some sins worse than others, I mean why do you think being gay is wrong but right ( I assume) Not to stone unruly children. where do you draw the line ?

Jesus spoke about 'the weightier matters of the law' from which we must conclude some sins are worse than others. That's not to minimise the seriousness of any sin. But with homosexuality there is a 'complication' in that it is spoken of as a judgment. That is, a state which God allows people to descend into as a judgment for their godlessness, especially their inner godlessness. This comes out especially in Romans chapter 1, mentioned above.

re. stoning of unruly children: that is part of the Old Testament theocratic law abolished when Christ instituted the Kingdom of Heaven. Christ became the one true sacrifice for sin, putting an end to the animal sacrifices of the OT and the associated civil and ceremonial law.

[Wirral]

(Original post by Ridingmyego)
You're completely welcome to your beliefs.

Do you mind me asking why you think that way?

Like Luther, my conscience is captive to the Word of God

[Ridingmyego]

(Original post by Wirral)
Like Luther, my conscience is captive to the Word of God

And to you, the Word of God is infallible?

I believe that the morals of a God such as the one described in the Bible are not only incorrect, but detrimental to the evolvement of society. As welcome as you are to your own beliefs, I hope you understand that they are based on faith, and faith alone. Because of this, they have no place in politics, sociology, or education.

[Wirral]

(Original post by alex5455)
but god isnt real, and nor does religion control the state and civil marriage is nothing to do with the church, thats not an argument its you trying to for your religion onto everyone else

You can bet your bottom dollar that if homosexual marriage is legalised, it will be forced onto the churches. The people who are pushing this agenda are primarily militant atheists and secularists rather than homosexuals. That is why Christians are concerned.

[Wirral]

(Original post by Ridingmyego)
And to you, the Word of God is infallible?

I believe that the morals of a God such as the one described in the Bible are not only incorrect, but detrimental to the evolvement of society. As welcome as you are to your own beliefs, I hope you understand that they are based on faith, and faith alone. Because of this, they have no place in politics, sociology, or education.

I do take the Word of God as infallible, or better, inerrant. That is one of the badges of membership of the Kingdom of Heaven. And all beliefs are based on faith, including yours. They just don't always go under the title of 'faith'. But lets not detail the thread...

[Gofre]

(Original post by Wirral)
You can bet your bottom dollar that if homosexual marriage is legalised, it will be forced onto the churches. The people who are pushing this agenda are primarily militant atheists and secularists rather than homosexuals. That is why Christians are concerned.

I don't quite meet the standard definitions of militant atheism, but I'm strongly in favour of removing the influence of institutionalised religion and very much believe that equal access to marriage rights should be aggressively pushed. However while I believe it should be a legal right for homosexuals to marry, I am very much against forcing any religious group to perform such ceremonies, just as I wouldn't expect Churches to offer Islamic services or vice versa. I would be more than happy for gay marriage to exist simply in a secular sense with the ability to opt-in for religious organisations, so long as it confers equal status.

[Pinkhead]

(Original post by Wirral)
I do take the Word of God as infallible, or better, inerrant. That is one of the badges of membership of the Kingdom of Heaven. And all beliefs are based on faith, including yours. They just don't always go under the title of 'faith'. But lets not detail the thread...

This thread was made for discussion of the arguments against Gay marriage. Your beliefs and 'faiths' do come into this, so it will be fine to discuss.
So please explain what you mean.

[alex5455]

(Original post by Wirral)
You can bet your bottom dollar that if homosexual marriage is legalised, it will be forced onto the churches. The people who are pushing this agenda are primarily militant atheists and secularists rather than homosexuals. That is why Christians are concerned.

bet your bottom pound, please we arent american.

what exactly is wrong with secularism? or atheism for that matter, i dont see why people should be denied the same rights as others just because your book says so.

the bible also condones slavery, so is gods word infallible now?

[Ridingmyego]

My beliefs are based on observation, and reason. There's no way I would give my loyalty to a blind cause, especially a cause that demands my faith under threat of hellfire.

Every human being deserve the oppurtunity to be equal. Regardless of their sexual orientation.

[Ridingmyego]

(Original post by Wirral)
I do take the Word of God as infallible, or better, inerrant. That is one of the badges of membership of the Kingdom of Heaven. And all beliefs are based on faith, including yours. They just don't always go under the title of 'faith'. But lets not detail the thread...

My beliefs are based on observation, and reason. There's no way I would give my loyalty to a blind cause, especially a cause that demands my faith under threat of hellfire.

Every human being deserve the oppurtunity to be equal. Regardless of their sexual orientation.

[wolf-pack]

(Original post by ConnorB)

brilliant!

[Jaegon Targaryen]

I bare no hatred for homosexuals , yet I don't understand why they feel the need to marry in a church , when it directly forbids same sex marriages in several statements in Christianity.

Marrying in the house of God (or so to speak ) with a homosexual partner is seen as a crime in my eyes

[Ridingmyego]

(Original post by alex5455)
bet your bottom pound, please we arent american.

what exactly is wrong with secularism? or atheism for that matter, i dont see why people should be denied the same rights as others just because your book says so.

the bible also condones slavery, so is gods word infallible now?

The Bible also states that Noah lived until he was 950. That we should admire the man (Abraham) who said that he would kill his kid to prove his love of God. That plants were created and survived before sunlight (which is impossible). That if we even contemplate "sin" then we have commited it (thought crime). Oh, and also that the unbelieving will burn in hell (Revelations 21:8).

I can't see how anyone can class the words of the Bible to be infallible :')

[Thebigfudge85]

(Original post by Wirral)
Jesus spoke about 'the weightier matters of the law' from which we must conclude some sins are worse than others. That's not to minimise the seriousness of any sin. But with homosexuality there is a 'complication' in that it is spoken of as a judgment. That is, a state which God allows people to descend into as a judgment for their godlessness, especially their inner godlessness. This comes out especially in Romans chapter 1, mentioned above.

re. stoning of unruly children: that is part of the Old Testament theocratic law abolished when Christ instituted the Kingdom of Heaven. Christ became the one true sacrifice for sin, putting an end to the animal sacrifices of the OT and the associated civil and ceremonial law.

In matthew 5 jesus says that all laws of the prophets still stand. All of them

"17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

So from the mouth of Jesus himself( at least according to Matthew) the laws of the prophets stand until everything is accomplished, ( which the last I checked a lot of things still need to pass)

So my point still stands, biblically why do you judge being gay is wrong and shouldn't exist, and not say Stone children to death ?

[wolf-pack]

It isn't as though people make a conscious decision to become gay, i think it is dispicable the there isn't already gay marriage in many countries throughout the world, it just makes the system which preaches about equal rights worthless and hypocritical.

[Dinnes]

(Original post by Wirral)
The answer is in Genesis chapter 2. God created the man and the woman for each other and instituted marriage between the two. Read that chapter for the very first wedding ceremony.

I think you'll find Ancient Greece had marriage several hundred years before even part of the Book of Genesis was written. Christianity doesn't own marriage, partnerships, call it what you like. Just because it's been hijacked it doesn't justify this ridiculous 'finders keepers' attitude towards the matter.

Also, if you believe something, fine, but why do you think it is fair to use that belief as an argument that applies to everyone?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Genesis#Origins
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriag...age_by_culture

[Oli-Ol]

(Original post by Jaegon Targaryen)
I bare no hatred for homosexuals , yet I don't understand why they feel the need to marry in a church , when it directly forbids same sex marriages in several statements in Christianity.

It's not that they want to marry in a church; it's that they want to marry at all.

Homosexuals in this country cannot get married. That is what is currently being discussed: whether they should be allowed to marry. Not get married in a church. Have a civil marriage. Religious beliefs shouldn't come into it because (at the moment) homosexuals simply want the right to have a secular marriage.

Personally I don't have a problem with it. Gay marriage should be legal, and those religious institutions which wish to allow gay couples to marry should be allowed to marry them.

[Dinnes]

(Original post by Jaegon Targaryen)
I bare no hatred for homosexuals , yet I don't understand why they feel the need to marry in a church , when it directly forbids same sex marriages in several statements in Christianity.

Marrying in the house of God (or so to speak ) with a homosexual partner is seen as a crime in my eyes

I think it's sad if your religion refuses to accommodate your sexual nature, but you can't force churches to allow religious marriage for homosexuals.

The issue arises from the fact that Christianity has slightly hijacked the concept of partnership/marriage - even today a lot of people marry in a church even though they don't believe in God.