The Student Room Group

Circumcision ban is the 'worst attack on Jews since Holocaust'

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Original post by callum9999
You can't abort a child. You can abort an embryo - but if you are going to go down the route of that counting because it will turn into a child, then why stop there? Why not blast anyone using contraception (artificial or otherwise) for denying the sperm and egg the chance to make a child?


That depends on what you think constitutes life/ a child. You can abort human looking, seeming probably thinking foetuses btw. Anyway, I will retrace my steps so as to not get bogged down in such a loaded discussion. The poster I quoted asked "How can you mutilate a child for an opinion or a belief?".

Now, there is no mutilation in circumcision. In fact growing the foreskin back is possible through non-surgical procedures (wearing a peg etc). So it would seem lopping off a bit of extra skin not too different from cutting a child's hair or toenail's. The pain felt by an infant is negligible in the grand scheme of things: no worse than having an umbilical cord lopped off or suffering a few scrapes in the garden, and yet it continues an important Jewish tradition, and creates a continuity between one Jew and his ancestors.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 161
Original post by Converse Rocker
Please show me a case where someone has died due to not having his foreskin removed. It doesn't seem to be a problem for the millions of other male teenagers that have one and stay clean.

Its more diffult in childhoos to clean under the foreskin though and circumscision if done properly decreases risk of non sexual infections as well.


Proper education of sexual health should lead to no problems for a child with a foreskin, as shown by the majority of healthy young males.

Circumcised men do not ahve any health problems either, infatc they tend to live longer as research shows, possibly due to lower risk of infection.



People can feel terrible when they think their penis is smaller than other lads', some children may get incredibly depressed and self conscious at a circumcised penis.

circumcision does not decrease the length of a penis, anyways we must move it on, since you are childish I will move the conversation on, it just removes the foreskin not the actual penile muscle

Would you support female circumcision, hypothetically? Let's say a religion now wants to cut parts off a baby girl's genitals, any problem? It improves hygiene after all.

Certainly not, such a procedure would increase risk of infection given the nature of the female genitals. And no it would not improve hygeine as there is no foreskin restricting any access for a thorough clean.


Stop being silly please
Original post by jogijogan
Stop being silly please


It may be harder when young to clean under the foreskin, but it's not a problem for most young males? Like I said, proper sexual health awareness should sort this, you don't need circumcision. If circumcision does so much good for genital hygiene, and reduces risk of infection so much, why don't males with a foreskin have problems?

I know circumcision doesn't affect penis length, that was an example of how problems relating to their genitalia can make lads depressed and self concious.

Also, you keep mentioning all these studies linked to health and hygiene, care to provide any? As a male, I'm interested to see the results of these studies myself. Also, I doubt foreskin restoration is provided by the NHS, or a simple procedure, so don't try and pass circumcision off as some minor alteration.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 163
Original post by jogijogan
You can get foreskin restoration. And doctors cannot overule a jehovahs witness who does nto allowed blood transfusion for their child

Lets say it is banned in this country as well.

Well people can go abroad and get their children circumcised, they can go to any muslim country or even Israel and have it done there.

SO how will you enforce it, will you go house to house checking up on babies?


Yes, the doctor can overrule the parent. It has happened before.

So what if they can do it in another country? You write laws for your own country. Lead by example rather than using "but they don't do it" as an excuse.

The fact that a restoration is possible does not make it better. Broken bones can also be fixed, should we allow parents to break babies arms?
Reply 164
Original post by Converse Rocker
It may be harder when young to clean under the foreskin, but it's not a problem for most young males? Like I said, proper sexual health awareness should sort this, you don't need circumcision. If circumcision does so much good for genital hygiene, why don't males with a foreskin have problems?

I know circumcision doesn't affect penis length, that was an example of how problems relating to their genitalia can make lads depressed and self concious.

Also, you keep mentioning all these studies linked to health and hygiene, care to provide any? As a male, I'm interested to see the results of these studies myself. Also, I doubt foreskin restoration is provided by the NHS, or a simple procedure, so don't try and pass circumcision off as some minor alteration.


You didnlt exactly provide any sources for your depression and self conscious claims, nor did you provide any research for males regretting their parents circumcising them.

I have google, so do you, use it please.
Reply 165
Original post by A.J10
Yes, the doctor can overrule the parent. It has happened before.

sorry I apologise, I checked and you are right, but this exa,ple is useless as child circumcision if done rightly does not kill people like a refusal for child blood transfusion may

So what if they can do it in another country? You write laws for your own country. Lead by example rather than using "but they don't do it" as an excuse.

Well if people can go abroad for a couple fo days or whatever, have circumcision done and come back, well it is a pointless law then isn't it?

The fact that a restoration is possible does not make it better. Broken bones can also be fixed, should we allow parents to break babies arms?


Babies would die of broken bones or severly disabled as the healing would not go down well at that early age, circumcision does not disable any bodily function as such so stop being erratic please.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by jogijogan
You didnlt exactly provide any sources for your depression and self conscious claims, nor did you provide any research for males regretting their parents circumcising them.

I have google, so do you, use it please.


http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-Many-Men-Are-Interested-In-Penis-Enlargement&id=7145257

http://brook.org.uk/my-body/boys-and-young-men/penises-and-testicles

These aren't studies but highlight the point I was making about lads being self conscious of their penis.

http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090124135032AA4IrY1

Again, not a study, but shows somebody who is uncomfortable with their circumcised penis.

Plus, you completely ignored my points about the lack of problems suffered by most males with a foreskin. Care to address that at any point?
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 167
Original post by wwelol
the similiraty is that if kids have a choice they will reject both school and circumsition
so yes i am comparing the 2


But that's not the issue. I pointed out the falseness of your analogy because the argument is about parents' right to override children's choice, not what things children would reject given the choice. Which things would children reject because they are unable to think too much about the future / do not really understand the full benefit of but actually really benefit from them in the long run and which things do children reject that aren't that beneficial and that they wouldn't have done given the choice as adults? The problem is that many of these boys grow up to be adults and are annoyed that they were circumcised, whereas nobody grows up to complain that they were taught to read, write etc (some adults may complain about the way in which they were educated or problems they had at school e.g. bullying, most of which is out of parental control anyway). However, on the other hand, there are probably devout Jewish men who believe in the doctrine of circumcision and would be annoyed if they weren't circumcised as babies. That's why I refuse to make a final judgement about it - it's a complex issue with many sides to it that I don't know enough about.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 168
Original post by jogijogan
Babies would die of broken bones or severly disabled as the healing would not go down well at that early age, circumcision does not disable any bodily function as such so stop being erratic please.


Again, loving the bold.

Circumcisions can and do go wrong. If they go wrong, they can cause a lot of problems (like any operation going wrong).

And why was I being erratic? I know I jumped from point to point, but that was because I was countering each of yours in turn.
I agree with this Jewish Rabbi.
Original post by the bear
It does not seem very sensitive of the Germans after what they did to the Jews in the Shoah


The Germans making this law are no more responsible for the Holocaust than you or I.
Reply 171
Original post by . .
A child has no say in whether he/she wants a vaccination should we stop them too because the child cannot give consent? :rolleyes:


Yes, because genital mutilation versus a vaccination that might save your life is totally comparable.
Reply 172
Original post by A.J10
Again, loving the bold.

Circumcisions can and do go wrong. If they go wrong, they can cause a lot of problems (like any operation going wrong).

And why was I being erratic? I know I jumped from point to point, but that was because I was countering each of yours in turn.


You are erratic becuase you are comparing breaking bones for no reason to circumcision for hygeine reasons, one causes death or major possiblility of death in babies whilst circumcison does not such thing
Original post by callum9999
You can't abort a child. You can abort an embryo - but if you are going to go down the route of that counting because it will turn into a child, then why stop there? Why not blast anyone using contraception (artificial or otherwise) for denying the sperm and egg the chance to make a child?


Why not go even further? How irresponsible is it of people to avoid having children by not having sex constantly with every fertile person they see!
Reply 174
Original post by jogijogan
You are erratic becuase you are comparing breaking bones for no reason to circumcision for hygeine reasons, one causes death or major possiblility of death in babies whilst circumcison does not such thing


Why does a broken bone constitute more of a risk to life than a cut apart penis? I also question your use of the word erratic, and I hadn't made that comparison when I asked that question.
Reply 175
Original post by SpiggyTopes
Why not go even further? How irresponsible is it of people to avoid having children by not having sex constantly with every fertile person they see!


[video="youtube;U0kJHQpvgB8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8[/video]

:biggrin:
Reply 176
Original post by Converse Rocker
http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-Many-Men-Are-Interested-In-Penis-Enlargement&id=7145257

http://brook.org.uk/my-body/boys-and-young-men/penises-and-testicles

These aren't studies but highlight the point I was making about lads being self conscious of their penis.

http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090124135032AA4IrY1

Again, not a study, but shows somebody who is uncomfortable with their circumcised penis.

Plus, you completely ignored my points about the lack of problems suffered by most males with a foreskin. Care to address that at any point?


Yes but it does not say that they are depressed nor self conscious becuase they do not have a foreskin, foreskin or not, all men will be bithered more about size than being circumcised and we already agree that circumcision does not affect size.

As for your point, well research show uncircumcised men are at more of a risk to suffer from cancer of the Penis UTI and other infections as stated on the NHS website.

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Circumcision/Pages/Advantages-and-disadvantages.aspx
Reply 177
Original post by A.J10
Why does a broken bone constitute more of a risk to life than a cut apart penis? I also question your use of the word erratic, and I hadn't made that comparison when I asked that question.


Well if you were given the option of having the option of being properly circumcised or having your bones broken, i doubt you would choose the latter.

Well you need to read up on circumcision, it does not involve cutting the actual penis so do not persist with that line, it involves cutting the foreskin and does nto cause disbaility in any bodily function in urinating nor sex if circumcision is done properly.
circumcision is a barbaric jewish act
Original post by jogijogan
Well if you were given the option of having the option of being properly circumcised or having your bones broken, i doubt you would choose the latter.

Well you need to read up on circumcision, it does not involve cutting the actual penis so do not persist with that line, it involves cutting the foreskin and does nto cause disbaility in any bodily function in urinating nor sex if circumcision is done properly.


can i remove your clitoris please? does not affect your love tunnel after all

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