[Historophilia]

(Original post by desdemonata)
I had one sex-ed slash drug abuse class, once, when I was in my final year of secondary school. It was like something out of Never Been Kissed, they called in a woman from outside the school and we practiced putting condoms on rainbow-coloured penises. Lol we did some work on bullying in Ethics too, which I found funny because they don't seem to have an actual word and use the english "bullying"

I tihnk that's what the word machismo technically means in Spanish too, but it's used to almost exclusively in reference to male chauvinism.

Rainbow coloured? Jealous much the fake penises in my classes were just plain blue

Interesting, the dictionary definition for english has that as part of it but it's rarely used that way.

[desdemonata]

(Original post by Historophilia)
Rainbow coloured? Jealous much the fake penises in my classes were just plain blue

Interesting, the dictionary definition for english has that as part of it but it's rarely used that way.

Well, mine was plain green. So I got a proper alien penis.

To be fair, male chauvinism is pretty common here Franco ****ed things up pretty badly and Spain is still a little behind on the equal rights/gay rights movements etc. So maybe that's why it's used in that sense, simply because they needed such a word.

[RachelSophia]

I think when coming out of a relationship, or after an arguement each person blames the other. I know when i've had issues when i'm very angry and point the finger quickly... but i also know that when i've wound my partner up and he's with his friends i will be made to look like the bad one.
Everyone sensationalises the situation in anger...

but then i dont think that's anything to do with sexism and femminism?

In reply to your question though i do think some woman take feminism too far... it's great when you reach equal rights, but then some seem to have a double standard. Some feminists will absolutely trash talk men, and if it was the other way round there would be a protest!
But that is only a minority.


I personally don't believe that we can be equal, it's a nice theory... and i guess you can to an extent, but i know there are some things i wouldn't be able to do without a tall stong man about. I'm quite traditional though xD I had that upbringing

[Bonzo10]

(Original post by RachelSophia)
I personally don't believe that we can be equal, it's a nice theory... and i guess you can to an extent, but i know there are some things i wouldn't be able to do without a tall stong man about. I'm quite traditional though xD I had that upbringing

This. Agreed!

Here's an issue regarding feminism, albeit not strongly related: an ex of mine and I were having an argument in the city centre one night after a night out. It should be known that when I say argument, I mean she was yelling and I was simply nodding. Anyway, I ushered everyone to move towards the taxi rank and me and my girlfriend fell behind as she ranted at me. We were walking along and she shoved me hard about four times and on the fourth shove I put out my forearm simply to stop her shoving me. She then proceeded to fling herself into the side of the taxi we were about to get into, fell to the ground, and completely dramatised the whole situation. So, we got in the taxi and everybody went mental at me, including the driver. She refused to even clear it up, and I was chucked out the taxi half way home having not said a single word.

A long winded story, I know, but my question is this: why should it still be acceptable for a woman to hit a man without any sort of consequence at all? I'm fully aware of a man's physical dominance over a woman, but this doesn't mean a woman's fist does not hurt a man. Women appear to want selective equality, sometimes.

[desdemonata]

(Original post by Bonzo10)
This. Agreed!

Here's an issue regarding feminism, albeit not strongly related: an ex of mine and I were having an argument in the city centre one night after a night out. It should be known that when I say argument, I mean she was yelling and I was simply nodding. Anyway, I ushered everyone to move towards the taxi rank and me and my girlfriend fell behind as she ranted at me. We were walking along and she shoved me hard about four times and on the fourth shove I put out my forearm simply to stop her shoving me. She then proceeded to fling herself into the side of the taxi we were about to get into, fell to the ground, and completely dramatised the whole situation. So, we got in the taxi and everybody went mental at me, including the driver. She refused to even clear it up, and I was chucked out the taxi half way home having not said a single word.

A long winded story, I know, but my question is this: why should it still be acceptable for a woman to hit a man without any sort of consequence at all? I'm fully aware of a man's physical dominance over a woman, but this doesn't mean a woman's fist does not hurt a man. Women appear to want selective equality, sometimes.

I think that women like that are the issue, not so much feminism... I wouldn't do that, nor do I think it's acceptable for a woman to hit a man. I will admit that, for instance, if I had to watch a man hit a woman in the face, I would react more strongly than I would to seeing a woman hit a man in the face, but that's mainly because I would assume that due to the physical dominance and biological differences the woman would be in more pain. But even so, in both cases it's unacceptable.

Not "women". "Some women". Some women don't even want any sort of equality at all, and not all woman who claim to be "feminists" actually are. It kind of gives us a bad name when other women wave the feminist flag as an excuse to be horrible to men

[Bonzo10]

(Original post by desdemonata)
I think that women like that are the issue, not so much feminism... I wouldn't do that, nor do I think it's acceptable for a woman to hit a man. I will admit that, for instance, if I had to watch a man hit a woman in the face, I would react more strongly than I would to seeing a woman hit a man in the face, but that's mainly because I would assume that due to the physical dominance and biological differences the woman would be in more pain. But even so, in both cases it's unacceptable.

Not "women". "Some women". Some women don't even want any sort of equality at all, and not all woman who claim to be "feminists" actually are. It kind of gives us a bad name when other women wave the feminist flag as an excuse to be horrible to men

Ok fair enough, I shouldn't have left the domain so open, I did mean "some" women. I agree, I have been guilty of reacting to a guy hitting a girl and not the other way around. I was just questioning why most of us think this way.

I'd like to point out that I believe that the feminist movement was not only necessary but useful, too. As the only male out of three children in my family, I have always been more inclined to support women rather than oppose them. However, there are some areas of inequalities that overshoot from the feminine side.

[NYU2012]

(Original post by Bonzo10)
Ok fair enough, I shouldn't have left the domain so open, I did mean "some" women. I agree, I have been guilty of reacting to a guy hitting a girl and not the other way around. I was just questioning why most of us think this way.

Most of us think that way because of the culture we were raised in and how imbued gender ideologies are into our culture, and how these gender ideologists affect behavior and perception of gendered bodies.

[RachelSophia]

(Original post by Bonzo10)
This. Agreed!

Here's an issue regarding feminism, albeit not strongly related: an ex of mine and I were having an argument in the city centre one night after a night out. It should be known that when I say argument, I mean she was yelling and I was simply nodding. Anyway, I ushered everyone to move towards the taxi rank and me and my girlfriend fell behind as she ranted at me. We were walking along and she shoved me hard about four times and on the fourth shove I put out my forearm simply to stop her shoving me. She then proceeded to fling herself into the side of the taxi we were about to get into, fell to the ground, and completely dramatised the whole situation. So, we got in the taxi and everybody went mental at me, including the driver. She refused to even clear it up, and I was chucked out the taxi half way home having not said a single word.

A long winded story, I know, but my question is this: why should it still be acceptable for a woman to hit a man without any sort of consequence at all? I'm fully aware of a man's physical dominance over a woman, but this doesn't mean a woman's fist does not hurt a man. Women appear to want selective equality, sometimes.

exactly! It isn't right for a woman to hit a man, even if it doesn't physically hurt, what kind of guy stands there getting hit. It must be embarrassing and frustrating to him.

Equal rights when voting and i suppose in the work place. But equal rights all round doesn't exist. No man can make a better sandwich than me, haha jkg

[desdemonata]

(Original post by Bonzo10)
Ok fair enough, I shouldn't have left the domain so open, I did mean "some" women. I agree, I have been guilty of reacting to a guy hitting a girl and not the other way around. I was just questioning why most of us think this way.

I'd like to point out that I believe that the feminist movement was not only necessary but useful, too. As the only male out of three children in my family, I have always been more inclined to support women rather than oppose them. However, there are some areas of inequalities that overshoot from the feminine side.

To be honest, I think it's a backlash from before when men hitting women had little to no consequences. Some women seem to feel "well hey now it's my turn!" and also I think anybody would react more strongly because men are generally seen as bigger and stronger than women (and biologically they generally are), so it's kind of equated in our minds to attacking somebody defenceless (even if some women aren't defenceless at all and some men aren't bigger/stronger etc).

[abc:)]

(Original post by Dinnes)
Hi there,

Lately I've been getting annoyed at a few friends of mine - they've all just come out of relationships and always seem to blame it on the guy they're dating rather than the relationship itself. I also hear from parents of other friends (especially the mothers) similar attitudes towards guys, that somehow they're as a gender flawed compared to women.

Obviously I have no way of proving or refuting these claims but it provides interesting food for thought. Personally I'd like to think that it is an unsubstantiated one and that it is simply a backlash from our society's removal of sexism-against-women rather than anything else.

Having said that, there are of course people out there with different views to me, and I think it's a good topic for discussion.

I think if I had to sum this up with a question, it would be; "Can feminism ever go too far, and has it?" Personally I'm all up for equal rights, in all circumstances, hence why I find recent anti-men attitudes a bit distasteful.

Another great example of someone not understanding the definition of feminism. Where have you drawn the link between these people hating on mankind based on a few not nice guys, and feminism?? Feminism does not equal manhating. If someone says they hate all men, they're a manhater, not a feminist! Any perceived link is completely erroneous

[Bonzo10]

(Original post by abc:))
Another great example of someone not understanding the definition of feminism. Where have you drawn the link between these people hating on mankind based on a few not nice guys, and feminism?? Feminism does not equal manhating. If someone says they hate all men, they're a manhater, not a feminist! Any perceived link is completely erroneous

In all fairness, it isn't helped by women who incorrectly align themselves with the feminist agenda and then pass their anti-male beliefs off as "feminist".

[Dragonfly07]

I think feminism should focus a lot more on issues that happen outside of the west, or issues that happen in the west by minorities that haven't integrated yet.

I've experienced domestic abuse and ended up in a women's refuge where the majority of minority women (confusing) were fleeing forced marriages and one kurdish girl was fleeing an attempted honour killing. The white women there were mostly fleeing physical abuse from alcoholic men (they were alcoholic in literally 100% of the cases).

So yeah, feminism definitely focuses on the wrong issues.

[rad_student]

(Original post by Historophilia)
I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I'm a Feminist and proud to be one, but it's astonishing how many people assume that this means I must hate men, be a lesbian etc.

First can you pick from this Types of Feminism list, so I know what type of feminism(s) you believe in? There are many strands, some good, some bad (probiotic like).

I'm an Equalist, there is only ONE type, I do not use feminist shaming language & hope neither will u. I do worry for the ~7% & ~26 of women who die in their work or suicide, as well as the majority of men.

One thing common with modern day feminists is your intellectual dishonesty &, when giving women's stats not giving the same results for men. Some E.g.s
I mean "1 in 4 women in the UK will experience domestic violence in their lifetime", well that same survey said that will happen to 1 in 6 men. If you had bothered to listen to the first few minutes of the link 1 gave u, the one where you replied. You must have missed the Home Office 1999 link data (pdf page 7) saying that both men & women commit equal amounts of DV only a page before. Although wherever there is DV stats its often someone (women mainly) that runs women's shelter that frames the situation/discourse for funding, + leverage in getting kids, for £, etc.

"only 35% of incidents of domestic abuse are reported, and women are on average assaulted 35 times before they call the police"

Mankind Initiative's stats, also mentions #(5) 2010/11 21 men & 94 women murdered by a ex-/partner which in the grand scheme of things is minor <compared to cancer deaths>. Under-reporting by men #(12 in link) 28% by men 13% by women.
Surely you saw this when replying to me on "Why is domestic violence seen as a gender issue?" Along with that the most abuse happens in a lesbian relationship - twice the women recorded.

35 times eh?? I was sure I saw 37 in an AUS survey. Well the study is 31 years old and not even British.
"Take a look at the Houses of Parliament. How many women do you see there? And on company boards? How many women are on those?"

You seem to underestimate the power of children for women, ask J.Valenti. Here a powerful woman tells you why women can't have it all. The only woman who can have it all is “superhuman, rich, and in charge.”

Too high brow? WomenOn.org: "Some women interviewed for the report suggested that they ‘need a senior women role model they could identify with, rather than a woman who has given up everything to get to the top’. Who is going to tell them? To get to the top in any industry is hard; it requires making difficult choices and setting priorities."
Men make sacrifices, show me men who have it all? Apex Fallacy? Ignorance or cognitive dissonance?

"And what about the little girls born in the UK who are sent to Africa by their families to undergo genital cutting?"

It is mainly the women (often traditional mothers) who enforce this; jezebel.com: "One difficulty in eliminating the practice comes from the women themselves,"; just look at news story to see the adult women's part. Matriachy?
I hope in my lifetime, the world can look at circumcision just as we look at FGM.


My first post was debunking rape stats (can argue with Harvard Referencing , but my data analysis is still professional) & I remember how Historophilia made a reference to JaggySnake95 "Find me data.
Data. Or I will label you here and now as a waste of oxygen." So apart from % of DV, as I have already given you, find me your factoid, google it with the word myth & see if its worth inform/educating us. Don't waste my or the others time (I have to go to the gym NOW b4 it closes, as u made me miss my yoga class).

Have you figured out why modern feminists & Govt do this? Tell me if you disagreed with what I wrote for abc
Just to balance argument look at: Glen Poole who wrote "13-reasons-its-unlucky-to-be-a-man.", did a recent talk at LSE A New Gender Agenda.

OPEN YOUR EYES & look at the world from a M:F or F:M perspective; as u can't see the whole picture.

Edit: Things You'll Never Hear A Feminist Say. Its very funny! Do you say any of these things? Maybe the arguments r not good, take it to your next feminist get-together & debunk it or at your Politics A2 (Maggie Thatcher anyone) as a class discussion?

[RtGOAT]

Feminists don't want equality, they want preferential treatment.

[Bobifier]

I am impressed by the leap of logic in this thread from "teenage girls sometimes think silly things" to "therefore feminism is broken". It definitely takes a special kind of mind to think up that argument.

[desdemonata]

(Original post by rad_student)
First can you pick from this Types of Feminism list, so I know what type of feminism(s) you believe in? There are many strands, some good, some bad (probiotic like).

I'm an Equalist, there is only ONE type, I do not use feminist shaming language & hope neither will u. I do worry for the ~7% & ~26 of women who die in their work or suicide, as well as the majority of men.

One thing common with modern day feminists is your intellectual dishonesty &, when giving women's stats not giving the same results for men. Some E.g.s
I mean "1 in 4 women in the UK will experience domestic violence in their lifetime", well that same survey said that will happen to 1 in 6 men. If you had bothered to listen to the first few minutes of the link 1 gave u, the one where you replied. You must have missed the Home Office 1999 link data (pdf page 7) saying that both men & women commit equal amounts of DV only a page before. Although wherever there is DV stats its often someone (women mainly) that runs women's shelter that frames the situation/discourse for funding, + leverage in getting kids, for £, etc.

"only 35% of incidents of domestic abuse are reported, and women are on average assaulted 35 times before they call the police"

Mankind Initiative's stats, also mentions #(5) 2010/11 21 men & 94 women murdered by a ex-/partner which in the grand scheme of things is minor <compared to cancer deaths>. Under-reporting by men #(12 in link) 28% by men 13% by women.
Surely you saw this when replying to me on "Why is domestic violence seen as a gender issue?" Along with that the most abuse happens in a lesbian relationship - twice the women recorded.

35 times eh?? I was sure I saw 37 in an AUS survey. Well the study is 31 years old and not even British.
"Take a look at the Houses of Parliament. How many women do you see there? And on company boards? How many women are on those?"

You seem to underestimate the power of children for women, ask J.Valenti. Here a powerful woman tells you why women can't have it all. The only woman who can have it all is “superhuman, rich, and in charge.”

Too high brow? WomenOn.org: "Some women interviewed for the report suggested that they ‘need a senior women role model they could identify with, rather than a woman who has given up everything to get to the top’. Who is going to tell them? To get to the top in any industry is hard; it requires making difficult choices and setting priorities."
Men make sacrifices, show me men who have it all? Apex Fallacy? Ignorance or cognitive dissonance?

"And what about the little girls born in the UK who are sent to Africa by their families to undergo genital cutting?"

It is mainly the women (often traditional mothers) who enforce this; jezebel.com: "One difficulty in eliminating the practice comes from the women themselves,"; just look at news story to see the adult women's part. Matriachy?
I hope in my lifetime, the world can look at circumcision just as we look at FGM.


My first post was debunking rape stats (can argue with Harvard Referencing , but my data analysis is still professional) & I remember how Historophilia made a reference to JaggySnake95 "Find me data.
Data. Or I will label you here and now as a waste of oxygen." So apart from % of DV, as I have already given you, find me your factoid, google it with the word myth & see if its worth inform/educating us. Don't waste my or the others time (I have to go to the gym NOW b4 it closes, as u made me miss my yoga class).

Have you figured out why modern feminists & Govt do this? Tell me if you disagreed with what I wrote for abc
Just to balance argument look at: Glen Poole who wrote "13-reasons-its-unlucky-to-be-a-man.", did a recent talk at LSE A New Gender Agenda.

OPEN YOUR EYES & look at the world from a M:F or F:M perspective; as u can't see the whole picture.

Edit: Things You'll Never Hear A Feminist Say. Its very funny! Do you say any of these things? Maybe the arguments r not good, take it to your next feminist get-together & debunk it or at your Politics A2 (Maggie Thatcher anyone) as a class discussion?

I know this message isn't directed at me, but I read it and honestly did not understand the point you are trying to make What?

And uh, why are you asking her to pick from a list of types of feminism? She has already explained what "type" of feminist she is in this thread in my opinion when replying to me. And to be frank that list seems ridiculous, as feminism as it should be understood is equal rights rather than oppression and discrimination, and not the million other things it claims it can be on that page - we've both already said how many people claim to be feminists while misunderstanding what it actually means, sometimes fundamentally.

So I really don't understand what you are trying to say.

[rad_student]

(Original post by desdemonata)
I know this message isn't directed at me, but I read it and honestly did not understand the point you are trying to make What?

And uh, why are you asking her to pick from a list of types of feminism? She has already explained what "type" of feminist she is in this thread in my opinion when replying to me. And to be frank that list seems ridiculous, as feminism as it should be understood is equal rights rather than oppression and discrimination, and not the million other things it claims it can be on that page - we've both already said how many people claim to be feminists while misunderstanding what it actually means, sometimes fundamentally.

So I really don't understand what you are trying to say.

Questioning "intellectual dishonesty" - <40 hours ago, I explained in my posts about DV & a whole load of reasonably up-to-date info from Why is domestic violence seen as a gender issue?
As I got a long reply I assumed that the person at least skimmed through what I wrote/referenced: - the peer-reviewed stuff that women r > or = physically aggressive as men (as noted in DV shelter); Page 7 (of 136) pdf link in 1999 Home Office said DV is equal & the 1in4 ("Life-time experience: Women were far more likely to say they had experienced domestic assault at some time in their lives: 23% of women and 15% of men aged 16 to 59 said they had been physically assaulted by a current or former partner at some time. The inclusion of frightening threats increases these figures to 26% and 17% respectively.") or 1 in 6 for men (now 7% women 5% men); as well as Parity linking to why "Twice as many male victims (28%) than women (13%) do not tell anyone about the domestic abuse they are suffering" inc the 2 pages needed to get the 28% & 13%; as well as why men don't report.

Despite all that, she is repeating, repeating the same 'women r suffering' - so I conclude that she knows the truth, but for some reason (sympathy? demonising/ignoring plight of men?) she is not stating any new knowledge or arguing against. It can't be ignorance with Govt data source, so I thought is it cognitive dissonance in what she has learnt or with her feminist friends/group?

Because really, that's what a certain type does, I think "Radical feminism: Cutting-edge branch of feminism focused on sweeping social reforms, social change, and revolution. Argues against institutions like patriarchy, heterosexism, and racism and instead emphasizes gender as a social construction, denouncing biological roots of gender difference."

So after that I realised most of what she was saying was probably incorrect so showed sources which - unless there is new peer-reviewed studies - weak/irrelevant.

I am holding her to the same standards as she said to JaggySnake95 (who seemed a little hurt by that), about her data.
I mean please prove what I have written/referenced as incorrect, I am sure I have made a mistake or you have 2011/12 data. Bittersweet, but learn humility when I get corrected.

Indirectly I am trying to be helpful, to see the world for effects, side-effects & consequences (DV used as leverage; many women's refuges so v few homeless females as well as fewer men treated for substance abuse- too tired for more); to see the bigger picture. I.e. when giving stats know data for both men & women. First time I heard 1 in 4 stat, I thought does that mean the rest, 3 in 4 men suffer?!! Honestly.

Certainly thinks gender stereotyping a problem:- Sweden/Iceland reading about them certainly will show u what happens when trying to remove it. Another day. I did really well in my Gender psychology essay.

==
Type of feminism - I want to be sure of who I am talking about; just because 1 type is described, doesn't mean there aren't others. I mean there is a lot of choices in that list from Amazon - Socialist.
"feminism as it should be understood is equal rights rather than oppression and discrimination, and not the million other things it claims it can be on that page" - remember that term changed along with history - look at Pro-life feminism do you believe in that as original feminists did, didn't they?
How do I know you don't really understand what feminists are & others do?
R u closer to Equality or Liberal feminism? No Amazon as they oppose gender role stereotypes. I am trying to define using Women's Studies.

Oh did u like the video? Each time I watch it, I forget how thorough it is.

[Dinnes]

(Original post by abc:))
Another great example of someone not understanding the definition of feminism. Where have you drawn the link between these people hating on mankind based on a few not nice guys, and feminism?? Feminism does not equal manhating. If someone says they hate all men, they're a manhater, not a feminist! Any perceived link is completely erroneous

Another great example of someone misreading my post

Basically my point is is that while feminism and supporting woman's rights in themselves are both really good things which I support, because of the whole sexism thing in the past some select few (not you, I'm sure, because you sound lovely :P) take it too far and then develop anti-masculinist views as if it was some kind of battle.

[Dinnes]

(Original post by Bonzo10)
In all fairness, it isn't helped by women who incorrectly align themselves with the feminist agenda and then pass their anti-male beliefs off as "feminist".

Thank you :P This is the point I'm driving at, that there seem to be a select few people who take feminism too far.

A case of "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others"?

:P

[desdemonata]

(Original post by rad_student)
Despite all that, she is repeating, repeating the same 'women r suffering' - so I conclude that she knows the truth, but for some reason (sympathy? demonising/ignoring plight of men?) she is not stating any new knowledge or arguing against. It can't be ignorance with Govt data source, so I thought is it cognitive dissonance in what she has learnt or with her feminist friends/group?

Because really, that's what a certain type does, I think "Radical feminism: Cutting-edge branch of feminism focused on sweeping social reforms, social change, and revolution. Argues against institutions like patriarchy, heterosexism, and racism and instead emphasizes gender as a social construction, denouncing biological roots of gender difference."

So after that I realised most of what she was saying was probably incorrect so showed sources which - unless there is new peer-reviewed studies - weak/irrelevant.

I am holding her to the same standards as she said to JaggySnake95 (who seemed a little hurt by that), about her data.
I mean please prove what I have written/referenced as incorrect, I am sure I have made a mistake or you have 2011/12 data. Bittersweet, but learn humility when I get corrected.

Indirectly I am trying to be helpful, to see the world for effects, side-effects & consequences (DV used as leverage; many women's refuges so v few homeless females as well as fewer men treated for substance abuse- too tired for more); to see the bigger picture. I.e. when giving stats know data for both men & women. First time I heard 1 in 4 stat, I thought does that mean the rest, 3 in 4 men suffer?!! Honestly.

Certainly thinks gender stereotyping a problem:- Sweden/Iceland reading about them certainly will show u what happens when trying to remove it. Another day. I did really well in my Gender psychology essay.

==
Type of feminism - I want to be sure of who I am talking about; just because 1 type is described, doesn't mean there aren't others. I mean there is a lot of choices in that list from Amazon - Socialist.
"feminism as it should be understood is equal rights rather than oppression and discrimination, and not the million other things it claims it can be on that page" - remember that term changed along with history - look at Pro-life feminism do you believe in that as original feminists did, didn't they?
How do I know you don't really understand what feminists are & others do?
R u closer to Equality or Liberal feminism? No Amazon as they oppose gender role stereotypes. I am trying to define using Women's Studies.

Oh did u like the video? Each time I watch it, I forget how thorough it is.

I'm not able to watch Youtube videos, so I couldn't say whether I liked it or not. And I can't really comment on the whole "intellectual dishonesty" point you were making because it's mainly about a discussion in another thread I haven't read.

To be honest all the links and statistics you add in make it hard to read the post. So I'm still confused as to whether your point is: men suffer too; men suffer more or as much as women; women don't really suffer, so shut up about women's suffering. Whatever your point is, in this thread it's already been acknowledged that men also suffer, but that women have been getting the raw deal in the societies of the last few centuries and are still underdogs (and I did really well in my essay about that, by the way).

You assumed she was a radical and then made the leap that everything she said must be incorrect and needs empirical proof? I see two flaws there. And I know that I personally wouldn't appreciate you sticking a "feminist type" label on me while only knowing parts of my view. I agree with everything she's said in this thread, and I'm not a radical. Does that mean that everything I've stated is wrong and that I need to look up some random statistics to have a leg to stand on? And those types seemed ridiculous to me because, to answer your question, I could just as easily label myself a liberal feminist as an equality feminist. So yes there are a lot of choices on that list, but some of them seem ridiculous. In my eyes, if you think women should be on the same footing as men, then you're a feminist, and if you don't, then you're not. We've already discussed in this thread how a lot of people misunderstand us when we say we're feminists, and think that we're lesbians or men-haters, or that we want preferential treatment. And I am aware that the definition of "feminism" has changed since the term was coined, but I think that the root of the matter always has been the raw deal women get. Back when it was coined, feminists were advocating for different things, so it makes sense that it changed along with what still needs to be achieved in order to have equality.