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State Dept: Israel approved only one asylum request in 2011

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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    My point is that imagine if every other country had taken Israel's stance towards asylum seekers in the run up to and during the course of world war two. Hundreds of thousands of non-Jews risked their lives to save Jews from the holocaust yet just seventy years later Jews can't seem to find it within themselves to give anyone else fleeing persecution the time of the day.
    I wish you wouldn't jump to such rash conclusions. "Jews can't seem to find it within themselves to give anyone else fleeing persecution the time of the day"? What a bigoted, ignorant thing to say, and your view seems to be based on some comment made by an Israeli Government minister or on the fact that only one asylum request was granted. Granted requests aside, Israel absorbs thousands of asylum seekers from Africa every year and doesn't deport them for violating its borders. It has accepted millions of Jews from across the Arab world and has, on many occasions, welcomed non-Jews seeking asylum, such as in this example - even Menachem Begin said at the time, "We never have forgotten the boat with 900 Jews the St. Louis, having left Germany in the last weeks before the Second World War… traveling from harbor to harbor, from country to country, crying out for refuge. They were refused… Therefore it was natural… to give those people a haven in the land of Israel." That seems to totally contradict what you've just said.
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    Well given that your nonsensical rambling after the comment I quoted didn't actually justify why exactly the Holocaust is 'relevent to almost everything Israel does', I'd argue there wasn't exactly much in the way of discussion anyway. All you did was say "the holocaust is like, waaaay important because it was a very big deal", which although true, doesn't particularly give any indication as to why it's relevant to almost 'all of Israel's activities'. It's much the same way India doesn't constantly refer to hundreds of years worth of oppression and colonial 'ownership'. On the contrary, India only refers to the rather brutal history of its ancestry when relevant. Something you fail to grasp seemingly because you're one of those 'must protect Israel's reputation at all cost' style forum members. Let me guess, am I 'deligitimising Israel'? :rolleyes: I know how you guys love that line :rofl:
    Let's see... He did actually justify his statement. He explained it by saying, "The concept of Israel and its existence now are all a result of a long history of antisemitism culminating in the Holocaust (though by no means ending with it). As a result, Israel is kind of founded on the principle that its primary objective above all else is to keep Jews safe and this dominates the worldview of Israelis and their leaders." That is an explanation. You then proceeded to attack him based on what he hadn't actually said, putting words in his mouth. Poor show.
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    Fair enough.

    If they deemed the other claims to Asylum not to be legitimate, that is perfectly within their rights. You don;t have to let everyone with a sob story into your country you know.
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    (Original post by Rhadamanthus)
    Let's see... He did actually justify his statement. He explained it by saying, "The concept of Israel and its existence now are all a result of a long history of antisemitism culminating in the Holocaust (though by no means ending with it). As a result, Israel is kind of founded on the principle that its primary objective above all else is to keep Jews safe and this dominates the worldview of Israelis and their leaders." That is an explanation. You then proceeded to attack him based on what he hadn't actually said, putting words in his mouth. Poor show.
    :facepalm: I'm pretty sure every nation wants to keep its people safe. Honestly, what a nonargument, of all the possible angles you could have come at it from.

    Regardless, even that pitiful excuse for an argument fails to explain why it is necessary for Israel to repeatedly use the holocaust as a bargaining card in foreign relations. Fair enough, let's go with your argument that Holocaust = Israel wanting to be a safe haven for Jews. And then what? Suddenly the holocaust becomes immediately relevant to all discussions pertaining to the entirety of Israeli politics?

    "Mr Netanyahu, we're having a significant problem with an increase in knife crime, what are your thoughts?"

    "The Holocaust. That's what".

    :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    I think the problem might lie with your inability either to read or comprehend written English.
    Now now, play nice on the Internet


    This may or may not be related to the high probability that you're on of those "Israel is like totally eveel and Jews Zionists cause all the wars and control everyone and everything" style forum members.

    Let me guess, am I 'shutting down debate'? I know how you guys love that line :rofl:
    I always try to draw a distinction between those who are actively responsible for the political strife that I find so objectionable and those who are merely just passive participants in an engagement they most likely have no part or awareness of. I have no inherent problem with Israeli Jews, for they are for the most part just like me: civilians who made no active choice over where they were born or the family and political culture they were born into.

    That said, I can't say I know anyone who's used the term 'shutting down debate' :lolwut: Perhaps you could enlighten me?
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    Its funny because a large proportion of Israelis dislike anyone non Jewish while Jews outside Israel are the main promoters of multiculturalism therefore I believe all the Africans and Asians should be able to migrate to Israel and ruin as they have done in Europe. Taste of your own medicine Jews
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    (Original post by Rhadamanthus)
    I wish you wouldn't jump to such rash conclusions. "Jews can't seem to find it within themselves to give anyone else fleeing persecution the time of the day"? What a bigoted, ignorant thing to say, and your view seems to be based on some comment made by an Israeli Government minister or on the fact that only one asylum request was granted. Granted requests aside, Israel absorbs thousands of asylum seekers from Africa every year and doesn't deport them for violating its borders. It has accepted millions of Jews from across the Arab world and has, on many occasions, welcomed non-Jews seeking asylum, such as in this example - even Menachem Begin said at the time, "We never have forgotten the boat with 900 Jews the St. Louis, having left Germany in the last weeks before the Second World War… traveling from harbor to harbor, from country to country, crying out for refuge. They were refused… Therefore it was natural… to give those people a haven in the land of Israel." That seems to totally contradict what you've just said.
    Get your head out of the your arse, man. Israel is the closest thing to a modern apartheid state. Non Jews are treated as second class citizens. There have been numerous protest rallies calling for the deportation of all black Africans from Israel. The Israeli PM himself has called for their expulsion. Hard line ultra-orthodox Jews have taken over the transport system, hounding anyone who doesn't conform to their religious dress code off of trams and buses. That's before we even begin to talk about Israel's treatment of Palestinians.
    I also find it ironic that you accuse me of basing my views on a single story when you yourself attempt to contradict me with a single thirty five year old account. The majority of this forum wasn't even born when that happened, so I don't know why exactly you think that is relevant to a modern current affairs debate about Israel's immigration policy in the year 2012.
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    :facepalm: I'm pretty sure every nation wants to keep its people safe. Honestly, what a nonargument, of all the possible angles you could have come at it from.

    Regardless, even that pitiful excuse for an argument fails to explain why it is necessary for Israel to repeatedly use the holocaust as a bargaining card in foreign relations. Fair enough, let's go with your argument that Holocaust = Israel wanting to be a safe haven for Jews. And then what? Suddenly the holocaust becomes immediately relevant to all discussions pertaining to the entirety of Israeli politics?

    "Mr Netanyahu, we're having a significant problem with an increase in knife crime, what are your thoughts?"

    "The Holocaust. That's what".

    :rolleyes:
    I believe UoL's original point was that the Holocaust should be mentioned where it is relevant. Obviously it is irrelevant when it comes to domestic policy such as dealing with knife crime.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Get your head out of the your arse, man. Israel is the closest thing to a modern apartheid state. Non Jews are treated as second class citizens. There have been numerous protest rallies calling for the deportation of all black Africans from Israel. The Israeli PM himself has called for their expulsion. Hard line ultra-orthodox Jews have taken over the transport system, hounding anyone who doesn't conform to their religious dress code off of trams and buses. That's before we even begin to talk about Israel's treatment of Palestinians.<br />
    I also find it ironic that you accuse me of basing my views on a single story when you yourself attempt to contradict me with a single thirty five year old account. The majority of this forum wasn't even born when that happened, so I don't know why exactly you think that is relevant to a modern current affairs debate about Israel's immigration policy in the year 2012.
    Oh, wow, I'm sorry, I thought I was debating with a reasonable person and not someone who is too prone to the use of buzzwords to make his argument look better.
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    (Original post by Rhadamanthus)
    I believe UoL's original point was that the Holocaust should be mentioned where it is relevant. Obviously it is irrelevant when it comes to domestic policy such as dealing with knife crime.
    Which is what I said :lolwut: I never implied that the Holocaust was never relevant, just that it becomes a 'card' that's being played when it's brought up in an irrelevant context.

    His statement was that it was relevant to "almost everything Israel does", which sounds to me like little more than an excuse to justify playing the card outside of its relevance.
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    Which is what I said :lolwut: I never implied that the Holocaust was never relevant, just that it becomes a 'card' that's being played when it's brought up in an irrelevant context.

    His statement was that it was relevant to "almost everything Israel does", which sounds to me like little more than an excuse to justify playing the card outside of its relevance.
    All of this talk of race reminds me of this relevant survey.

    52% of Israeli Jews agree: African migrants are ‘a cancer’

    Only 19% of Arab respondents agreed that the migrants were “a cancer.”
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    Israel is a country full of asylum seekers, and yet they reject asylum to all but 1.
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    (Original post by JamesNeedHelp2)
    Israel is a country full of asylum seekers, and yet they reject asylum to all but 1.
    No, they granted a request to this one guy, yet they let in thousands of Africans every year.
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    (Original post by Rhadamanthus)
    No, they granted a request to this one guy, yet they let in thousands of Africans every year.
    You mean the same Africans that they are deporting?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlI9d3smXvA
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    (Original post by JamesNeedHelp2)
    You mean the same Africans that they are deporting?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlI9d3smXvA
    They're not deporting them, they're deporting some. As any country does when people breach its borders.
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    (Original post by Rhadamanthus)
    They're not deporting them, they're deporting some. As any country does when people breach its borders.
    And yet the point stands.

    "Israel approved only one asylum application out of 4,603 received in 2011, according to a report recently released by the US State Department."
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    (Original post by JamesNeedHelp2)
    And yet the point stands.

    "Israel approved only one asylum application out of 4,603 received in 2011, according to a report recently released by the US State Department."
    Yes, but that means nothing when they implicitly agree to letting in thousands a year.
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    (Original post by JamesNeedHelp2)
    And yet the point stands.

    "Israel approved only one asylum application out of 4,603 received in 2011, according to a report recently released by the US State Department."
    Out of interest, how many of those 4,603 applications should Israel have approved?

    I mean, here you are criticising a country for only accepting one application, so evidently you feel qualified to talk on the topic, knowing the ins and outs of the applications themselves, the overall net immigration to Israel and the state of its public services and their ability to cope with new immigrants. So given all that, it really would be very helpful if you could enlighten us all as to the precise number of asylum seekers that Israel has a moral duty to accept in order to avoid criticism from people such as yourself.
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    (Original post by Rhadamanthus)
    Oh, wow, I'm sorry, I thought I was debating with a reasonable person and not someone who is too prone to the use of buzzwords to make his argument look better.
    You know, I had a look at your profile, read through the flamewar discussions you've been having with people, noted the fact that you were part of the Zionist society, and knew instantly that you were a hardline Israel fanboy who wouldn't be able to partake in a discussion regarding Israeli politics. I've met many like you; you think that any criticism of Israeli government policies is an attack on all Jews. So yeah, whatever, don't bother answering any point I raised, just dismiss them as 'buzzwords' :rolleyes:.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    You know, I had a look at your profile, read through the flamewar discussions you've been having with people, noted the fact that you were part of the Zionist society, and knew instantly that you were a hardline Israel fanboy who wouldn't be able to partake in a discussion regarding Israeli politics. I've met many like you; you think that any criticism of Israeli government policies is an attack on all Jews. So yeah, whatever, don't bother answering any point I raised, just dismiss them as 'buzzwords' :rolleyes:.
    Well if you've had to surf my profile then you're obviously not familiar with me. If you bothered to read any of the discussions I've had then you'd see I'm not as pro-Israel as you think. I have consistently argued that Israel committed atrocities upon its founding and that it has ignored the peace process over the past few decades. Yet I do not think this undermines the Zionist movement as a whole, hence my membership of the latent 'Zionist society'. As for thinking that 'any criticism of Israeli government policies is an attack on all Jews' - this is a pure, unmitigated straw man. I have said nothing of the sort, and have in fact argued the opposite on many occasions. Please do not jump to conclusions. I have argued this issue on TSR for nearly three years now and have encountered no shortage of people who use ideologically-charged, historically-devoid words like 'apartheid' that are precisely what I said they are - buzzwords. If you want a discussion on West Bank policy then I'll give you one, as long as you refrain from terms like 'apartheid' that are insulting to Israelis and to South Africans.

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