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Applying to Uni? Let Universities come to you. Click here to get your perfect place 20-10-2014
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    (Original post by Ethereal)
    Front row is far more skilled than number 10. That is why the laws of the game require a team to have an experienced front row replacement.
    I wonder what Dan Carter would think if Julian White told him that :p:

    The laws of the game require a team to have an experienced front row replacement, for first and foremostly safety reasons. Not because it is (subjectively) "far more skilled".
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    The fact it is far more skilled is why experience is needed to make it safe. Any monkey can play number 10!
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    That's not necessarily because it is far more skilled, but because playing in the front-row is very specialised. You need to be a good scrummager. The fact that it is so head-on (literally) means that someone with little experience will get destroyed. Not because it is far more skilled, but because the opposition front-row are in direct competition with one another.

    Playing at 10 you need pace, good kicking out of hand, creativity, good pass off either hand etc etc.

    So in terms of being far more skilled, there are more skills required for a International 10 than a Prop in my opinion.
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    Have you actually got any idea what goes on in a front row? That's just scrums alone, before you bring into it the rucks, mauls, line outs, defensive positions, game awareness, protecting backs when they get tackled etc.

    It's not simply a case of being stupid enough not to get your head kicked in in a scrum. Props also require the ability to pass, and also to make decisions and create gaps often in far more confined spaces than a fly half. The only one of the skills you listed for a fly half that a prop doesn't require is kicking form hand, and that's because if you kick in close proximity to the opposition forwards they will pick the ball up then simply kill you for being a fool.
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    Props generally don't have the game reading ability of the 10, they may be creative enough to make a gap in a small space, but it wil be the 10 that will send them at that space.

    The ability to see a gap on the other side of a field before it appears when you're waiting for an opposition 7 to run head first at you, intending to crush you, is what makes a good 10 special. I agree that propping and playing in the front row takes amazing skill, but they are put into situations where they can do they're job by the 10.
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    (Original post by Ethereal)
    Have you actually got any idea what goes on in a front row? That's just scrums alone, before you bring into it the rucks, mauls, line outs, defensive positions, game awareness, protecting backs when they get tackled etc.

    It's not simply a case of being stupid enough not to get your head kicked in in a scrum. Props also require the ability to pass, and also to make decisions and create gaps often in far more confined spaces than a fly half. The only one of the skills you listed for a fly half that a prop doesn't require is kicking form hand, and that's because if you kick in close proximity to the opposition forwards they will pick the ball up then simply kill you for being a fool.
    I thought we were discussing the skills solely required to play in the front-row alone, rather than general skills required by Forwards and Rugby players in general.

    What you say for the skills required by the Fly-Half also required for a Prop is true. An International Fly-Half however needs these skills on a different level to a Prop. A Prop doesn't need to be able to throw a double-miss pass, flat and at pace for example. Pace - all quality Rugby players need this but most International Backs are exceptionally quick, although most Forwards probably run 100m in ~13s too, its the acceleration that is needed to play in the Backs, hitting the gap at velocity.

    If you truly think a Prop needs as much Creativity as a Fly-Half, you obviously can't appreciate back-play in the same way that I might not be able to appreciate the merits of playing in the Front-row!

    Similarly all the skills you have listed for Props, with the exception of lifting in the line-out are also required of all Rugby players including Backs.
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    The backs don't generally get over involved in close play around the breakdown.

    To be fair, I can't fully appreciate a number 10's creativity because I was often in one of the following positions

    - tackled
    - protecting whoever was tackled
    - head up someone else's arse pushing
    - "removing" an opposition player from the wrong side of the ruck
    - being the wrong side of the ruck trying to nick the ball back

    you get the idea.
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    (Original post by Ethereal)
    The backs don't generally get over involved in close play around the breakdown.

    To be fair, I can't fully appreciate a number 10's creativity because I was often in one of the following positions

    - tackled
    - protecting whoever was tackled
    - head up someone else's arse pushing
    - "removing" an opposition player from the wrong side of the ruck
    - being the wrong side of the ruck trying to nick the ball back

    you get the idea.
    The joys of Rugby

    Can't wait 'til September.

    You don't play anymore? Injury?
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    Got spear tackled. It caused the following :

    - scaring of the brain which in turn caused Epilepsy and some cognitive function problems.
    - stable fracture of the C2 vertebrae
    - damage of the inter-vertebral discs c1/2 - c6
    - damage to some nerves in the spinal column causing reduced sensation and strength in the right hand side of my body
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    (Original post by Ethereal)
    Got spear tackled. It caused the following :

    - scaring of the brain which in turn caused Epilepsy and some cognitive function problems.
    - stable fracture of the C2 vertebrae
    - damage of the inter-vertebral discs c1/2 - c6
    - damage to some nerves in the spinal column causing reduced sensation and strength in the right hand side of my body
    **** that ain't good, no way you'll ever be able to play again then?
    Touch Rugby can be quite fun, not the same I know but you still get to play with an Oval, you tried that... I'm assuming you can still exercise, but may be not?

    I think it is SPIRE that we raise money for, you had any help from them?
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    No, I'll never play again. Might ref though *looks evil*
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    Eek... Ref is by far the hardest position on the pitch!
    Though back to the original dispute, having played all positions except hooker and second row, propping by far, i found most difficult. Simply because I don't have the technique and I have my muscles in the wrong places Needless to say, I was rather sore the next day.
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    (Original post by Ethereal)
    Might ref though *looks evil*
    yeh join the refs, it's fun! well until u make an 9 year old cry because you penalised him for knocking on the ball - happened to me a couple of weeks ago!
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    (Original post by Libly Bee)
    yeh join the refs, it's fun! well until u make an 9 year old cry because you penalised him for knocking on the ball - happened to me a couple of weeks ago!
    Then he should grow some balls! I bet it was a back!
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    (Original post by Ethereal)
    Then he should grow some balls!
    So should you seeing as you won't beg for the ones i've stolen Mwah ah ah... Sorry in a really cheeky mood
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    (Original post by WorkHouse)
    So should you seeing as you won't beg for the ones i've stolen Mwah ah ah... Sorry in a really cheeky mood
    *kicks WorkHORSE in her balls*
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    Heineken Cup DrawPool One: Treviso, Perpignan, London Wasps, Castres
    Pool Two: Edinburgh Gunners, Agen, Gloucester, Leinster
    Pool Three: Sale Sharks, Stade Francais, Calvisano, Ospreys
    Pool Four: Cardiff Blues, Bourgoin, Leicester, Munster
    Pool Five: Ulster, Toulouse, London Irish, Llanelli Scarlets
    Pool Six: Biarritz, Northampton, Parma, Border Reivers


    From http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugb...an/5013746.stm

    Pool four looks like a complete bitch...especially since the 2 teams I support are in it! (Leicester & Cardiff...)
    Just to show my opinion, I've italicised the teams I think will go through...not sure about the top 2 non-group winners though, but I think Scarlets and possibly Stade Francais would take those honours...
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    (Original post by bikerx23)
    Heineken Cup DrawPool One: Treviso, Perpignan, London Wasps, Castres
    Pool Two: Edinburgh Gunners, Agen, Gloucester, Leinster
    Pool Three: Sale Sharks, Stade Francais, Calvisano, Ospreys
    Pool Four: Cardiff Blues, Bourgoin, Leicester, Munster
    Pool Five: Ulster, Toulouse, London Irish, Llanelli Scarlets
    Pool Six: Biarritz, Northampton, Parma, Border Reivers


    From http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugb...an/5013746.stm

    Pool four looks like a complete bitch...especially since the 2 teams I support are in it! (Leicester & Cardiff...)
    Just to show my opinion, I've italicised the teams I think will go through...not sure about the top 2 non-group winners though, but I think Scarlets and possibly Stade Francais would take those honours...

    Bring it on. And I can tell you exactly whats going to happen in pool four, leicester will lose in tp but beat munster in welford road, we'll win the group, and ye will get the 'honour' of being a second placed team to get through.

    Got to say though, i wouldn't mind if my two favourite teams were in the one group, at least it would give me a good excuse for travelling to matches.
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    Thats not a bad point...

    I think after the year Leicester have had, they will be very charged up for taking back the HC, so I could see them being devestating...but it is such a tough group...
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    (Original post by bikerx23)
    Thats not a bad point...

    I think after the year Leicester have had, they will be very charged up for taking back the HC, so I could see them being devestating...but it is such a tough group...
    It's tough in that two teams expected to get to the qf are both in it, I think munster and leicester should both get through unless something goes radically wrong. We're favourites apparently(but thats just post final hype), however we've waited so long we're not going to give up easily. Added to that is the fact that when it comes to rugby limerick people hold grudges and we're hardly likely to forget 2002.
    No matter what though Munster and Leicester guarantees two fantastic games of rugby.
    I'm not underestimating ye though(my grandmother wasn't very impressed with my swearing when I heard the draw)
    Can't wait for next year, this entire city has gone totally munster rugby mad.

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