[RyanT]

(Original post by Brotherhood)
Both wrong.

There's no benefit to having huge peaks. You're essentially buying "time" for your muscles to rebuild rather than "quantity of muscle to add" by consuming proteins. *within reason

A steady stream of protein will leave his body rebuilding muscles for hours. Taking one big hit and pissing half of it away isn't the way to go about this.

[Brotherhood]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
using simple logic and understanding science to a higher degree level must play no part, you haven't actually stated the 'truth' yet... I must add however in supplement form it can be increased but not by more than 100%, meaning it's still over if he's on rest days.

Yes the body can only absorb so much protein per hour but the idea that anything above a certain limit is wasted or pointless is wrong. Your body will still utilise almost all of what it eats, it takes ages to digest anything, even whey. I wouldn't have an 80g shake myself but there's no difference in having one of 80g or four of 20g.

Here's a good article by Alan Aragon. And he "understands science to a higher degree level."

http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-n...a-single-meal/

In a 14-day trial, Arnal and colleagues found no difference in fat-free mass or nitrogen retention between consuming 79% of the day’s protein needs (roughly 54 g) in one meal, versus the same amount spread across four meals.

Soeters and colleagues compared two weeks of IF involving 20-hour fasting cycles with a conventional diet [13]. Despite the IF group’s consumption of an average of 101 g protein in a 4-hour window, there was no difference in preservation of lean mass and muscle protein between groups.

[randomguy786]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
the internet told me isn't proof.... you could have had the same results eating less.
in fact I've seen better results... that's a 40kg increase over 12ish weeks so you went up roughly 3.3kg per week... it's more about progressive weighting than diet, people can get stronger and not bigger.

Well it's about doing what's right for you. I found that 180g was my sweet spot. I gained maximum amount of muscle, whilst gaining next to nothing fat. It completely depends on the person.

Ok that's great, but 110kg is where I wanted to be. I've gained enough muscle and I'm now focusing on cutting to 5% BF.

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by Brotherhood)
Yes the body can only absorb so much protein per hour but the idea that anything above a certain limit is wasted or pointless is wrong. Your body will still utilise almost all of what it eats, it takes ages to digest anything, even whey. I wouldn't have an 80g shake myself but there's no difference in having one of 80g or four of 20g.

Here's a good article by Alan Aragon. And he "understands science to a higher degree level."

http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-n...a-single-meal/

As you will probably now see I edited the post before you replied :/ in terms of muscle growth it's useless to have so much...

[randomguy786]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
pointless even having 80 gram shakes... you can only absorb so much per hour

Absolutely false.

Studies have proven time and time again, total nutritional intake completely outweighs meal frequency and timing. So many beginners make this mistake.

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by randomguy786)
Absolutely false.

Studies have proven time and time again, total nutritional intake completely outweighs meal frequency and timing. So many beginners make this mistake.

only so much can be used toward building muscle the rest is broken down, as I have said you do not know more than 5 3rd year medics and a 5th year medic...

which studies are you looking at exactly?

[tooosh]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
only so much can be used toward building muscle the rest is broken down, as I have said you do not know more than 5 3rd year medics and a 5th year medic...

which studies are you looking at exactly?

What studies are you looking at? Oh wait, you're taking the word of medics. Appeal to authority?

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by tooosh)
What studies are you looking at? Oh wait, you're taking the word of medics. Appeal to authority?

I am a medic? I read textbooks the same thickness as Ronnie Coleman arms...

[randomguy786]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
only so much can be used toward building muscle the rest is broken down, as I have said you do not know more than 5 3rd year medics and a 5th year medic...

which studies are you looking at exactly?

Believe what you wish, medicine is not very useful when it comes to bodybuilding as my very good friend who is studying medicine has told me.

i find "Broscience" (advice from extremely experienced weightlifters) is a lot more useful than the advice from scientists in their labs. I have followed that motto for a long time and has been extremely vital to my success as a bodybuilder. I'm not saying that I don't use science, I just prefer advice from very experienced weightlifters over some scientist or medic in a lab/hospital.

[tooosh]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
I am a medic? I read textbooks the same thickness as Ronnie Coleman arms...

This stuff didn't used to be researched that well, most useful papers have only been around for the last 10 years or so. Check http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-n...a-single-meal/, the sources he has used do seem to support what he wrote in the article, at a quick skim.

[silent ninja]

(Original post by randomguy786)
i find "Broscience" (advice from extremely experienced weightlifters) is a lot more useful than the advice from scientists in their labs. I have followed that motto for a long time and has been extremely vital to my success as a bodybuilder. I'm not saying that I don't use science, I just prefer advice from very experienced weightlifters over some scientist or medic in a lab/hospital.

I'm the same. Too much bro science bashing on TSR. A lot of it is from experienced trainers and lifters and has much merit. Easy to dismiss but it's usually tried and tested.

[randomguy786]

(Original post by silent ninja)
I'm the same. Too much bro science bashing on TSR. A lot of it is from experienced trainers and lifters and has much merit. Easy to dismiss but it's usually tried and tested.

Exactly, which is why I never like to post on the TSR for weightlifting!

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by randomguy786)
Believe what you wish, medicine is not very useful when it comes to bodybuilding as my very good friend who is studying medicine has told me.

i find "Broscience" (advice from extremely experienced weightlifters) is a lot more useful than the advice from scientists in their labs. I have followed that motto for a long time and has been extremely vital to my success as a bodybuilder. I'm not saying that I don't use science, I just prefer advice from very experienced weightlifters over some scientist or medic in a lab/hospital.

I go to a gym owned by body building professional's... bodylines in plymouth, look it up

[HFerguson]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
please explain how you know more than 5 3rd year medics and a 5th year...

Are you one of those medics? Cos I'm a medic too, and the whole "you should never have more than 30g of protein in one sitting" is total bull**** broscience.

Although there may be a maximum rate at which amino acids can be uptaken into the blood stream, that will more than likely be limited by the rate at which proteins can be broken down in the stomach and intestines.

I'd prefer methods and concepts that have been empirically proven over broscience that has been "tried and tested" - because those trials and testings weren't controlled, and there could be confounding factors. Some people go "oh bro you need at least 200g of protein per day cos it's what's worked for hundreds of bodybuilders, and as soon as I upped my protein, my lifts went up/ I gained more muscle", even though they fail to account for different training methods or greater carb intake or more sleep etc etc etc. Bodybuilding is so complex and has hundreds of variables which can never be fully controlled for. Saying that, I will always choose empirical evidence first.


How much protein you need vs when or how often you consume protein - totally ****ing different issues.

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by HFerguson)
Are you one of those medics? Cos I'm a medic too, and the whole "you should never have more than 30g of protein in one sitting" is total bull**** broscience.

it's not 30g, but toward muscle synthesis, and building there is no use in the extra... it just goes toward other processes. if someone was aiming for weight loss, the extra calories aren't going to help. Yes I am one of the medics btw

[HFerguson]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
it's not 30g, but toward muscle synthesis, and building there is no use in the extra... it just goes toward other processes. if someone was aiming for weight loss, the extra calories aren't going to help. Yes I am one of the medics btw

"extra" is relative and subjective. As far as I'm aware, there's no current consensus on exactly how much protein a person needs per day for maximal muscle growth, but it's better to have enough or even too much if it doesn't harm you, than not enough and allowing your progress to suffer.

[Javilionaire]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
I go to a gym owned by body building professional's... bodylines in plymouth, look it up

This made me laugh. You sir, are completely lost.

[Javilionaire]

(Original post by HFerguson)
"extra" is relative and subjective. As far as I'm aware, there's no current consensus on exactly how much protein a person needs per day for maximal muscle growth, but it's better to have enough or even too much if it doesn't harm you, than not enough and allowing your progress to suffer.

This.

Which gym do you go to man? I live in MK as well.

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by Javilionaire)
This made me laugh. You sir, are completely lost.

hmm, well we can ignore the degree which I should be getting and my own progress... I was only looking to help from 6 years personal experience, I'll just keep it to myself.

http://www.bodylinesgym.uk.com/gym.html

how many 'body of 'whichever town' competitions has your gym won? and heavy lifting competitions..

[The Blind Monk]

Guys, keep it civil.

My input on protein intake is the following:
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...ein_debate.htm

This is the best and most reasonable discussion I've seen of protein intake for people who actually lift. Some choice tidbits (I'll put some more up in the morning)

(Original post by Stuart Phillips)
In a recent review (Nutrition 20: 689-695, 2004) I examined the evidence for
whether resistance trained athletes "need" more protein. The answer is likely the opposite. On this John and I can agree. I also pointed out in the same review, after taking relevant nitrogen balance data and regressing it through zero nitrogen balance, that resistance trained athletes require more protein than sedentary individuals. The problem is that, by all standards, most milk, egg and meat-eating North American males eat way more protein than they need.

(Original post by Stuart Phillips)
My feeling on the whole issue of protein consumption is that it appears to be
beneficial to consume a higher than normal protein intake during a period of
weight loss to prevent loss of lean body mass. Lifting weights will only augment this effect and will have the more potent effect in terms of allowing one to hang on to as much protein as possible during energy deficit. I know, the scientist finally agrees with the strategy tried and tested by bodybuilders for years.

(Original post by Stuart Phillips)
Hence, faced with these data I'm not sure that one can argue that a protein intake of more than 1.4 g protein/kg/d is necessary or even beneficial for protein requiring process.

Also, at the recent Experimental Biology conference, data from Mike Rennie’s laboratory showed for the first time a dose response curve of muscle protein synthesis with oral dose of essential amino acids. They reported that oral dose of essential amino acids (EAA) at which muscle protein synthesis (i.e., the controlling and regulated variable determining muscle protein accretion) was only 10g — a similar dose of EAA is present in 500ml of skim milk!

Also, data from Mike Rennie’s lab (Bohe et al. J. Physiol. 532: 575-579, 2001) shows that in the face of available amino acids that muscle protein synthesis is turned off after 1-2 hours. Hence, it doesn't appear that amino acid supply a) has to be large, and b) isn't limiting for the process of synthesizing new muscle proteins.

There is clearly a limit to the amount of protein that can be used to synthesise muscle at any given time. It's just that to the best of my knowledge, nobody knows exactly what that limit is. In general though, I agree with HFerguson: the research doesn't seem to support the idea that you need to consume 6-8 meals of protein.