[Tobinobin]

I plan to do this trip next year, probably just off-peak to save on finances. My main problem is that I don't know much in specifics about each country. I thought the cheapness of Eastern Europe/Balklans would make for a more varied trip, as well as the great variety in climates/landscapes (Croatia vs Ukraine/Russia for example). All my friends probably wont be able to get the funds for a trip like this (which I assume won't be too dear). I'll be traveling from Glasgow then to the continent (possibly Amsterdam) to begin the trip. I'm very open to suggestion though, anyone who wants to give me tips on what to see / do on this trip are welcome to. I'm also looking for people who might be interested in doing this with me. I'm flexible to what countries you're most interested in - I just want an unpredictable, interesting adventure I'll most likely be 20 by the time of the trip, and I recently left university to take some time out by the way.

[rawkus]

yo. An inter-rail ticket won't cover Moldova, Ukraine or the Baltic states nor Russia. Also if you insist on the route you will not be able to go straight through Belarus as you need a Visa which is quite difficult to get. Likewise with Russia, you need a visa to enter and they are also very tricky to get.

After you get to Warsaw and until you get to Zagreb you will be able to travel for very cheap. Even with the other journeys it may be cheaper to coach it rather then pay 400 for an interail for a month.

The area is cheap but you would be surprised how much you will still find yourself getting through. Maybe try couch surfing as well, it is an awesome way to meet locals and often they will take you too places that the hostel people don't know about. Maybe try some of the coastal cities in Croatia like Split rather then Zagreb? I'm hopefully doing Ukraine and Moldova too in a few weeks. Maybe you could try Odessa for a few days since it is on the way to Chisinau. How long are you going away for and how much money are you taking?

[Panceltic]

Hello!

Your trip seems very intereseting, but as it's already mentioned above, you'll need visas for Belarus, Ukraine and Russia (and Moldova too, I think).

There is one pair of trains a day between Poland and Lithuania (not going through either Russia or Belarus), so no visa is needed. The only connection from Lithuania to Latvia is an evening train from Vilnius (LIT) to Daugavpils (LAT) where you must spend the night and take the morning train to the capital Riga.

If I were you I would leave the easternmost part of your plan (Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova - Interrail does not cover them). Instead I would pay more attention to Poland (for example Krakow is a must-see).

As to the Balkans, if you have time you should see Bosnia&Herzegovina's capital Sarajevo. The trains are quite bad I believe and it takes really long to reach it, but if you are interested, check the internet.

Split (CRO), as mentioned above, is quite well connected to Zagreb and is a nice coastal city where you can have a taste of Mediterranean )

Next stop should be Slovenia (my country, obviously ), it really is nice, I recommend the capital Ljubljana, the Bled lake, the coast, karst caves ...

From Slovenia you can take a train to Budapest (Hungary) which I think is a magnificent city and should be included in your plan!

From there, Vienna is reached by a high-speed train "railjet". While you are in Vienna, go also to Bratislava (Slovakia) which is just 60km away.

From Bratislava there are trains to Prague (CZ) which I visited two months ago and is wonderful.

From Prague to Munich you can get with just one change I believe, and from Munich night trains go to Paris (also a must-see if you haven't already been there), from where you take the Eurostar to Britain.

I hope this helps, if you have any more questions, just ask I'll do my best

bye

[standreams]

You'll need visas for Russia, Belarus and Turkey only. British passport holders do not need visas for Ukraine or for Moldova. Turkish visas are available for £10 on arrival. Russian and Belarusian visas must be applied for in advance. It's not difficult in any way, just expensive. In both of these countries you must register- which makes Couchsurfing potentially difficult (strongly recommend Couchsurfing as a cultural experience/way to meet people/way to keep costs down, but your host will have to register you and if my experiences of Russia are anything to go by, it's a hassle).

Warsaw is nice, very underrated as a city. Prague is very touristy but should be seen as it is very beautiful- recommend visiting Cesky Krumlov too if you have time (very picturesque albeit full of tourists).

Second recommendation of Slovenia (Ljubljana, Bled, Bohinj, Julian Alps) although the atmosphere is much closer to Austria/Italy than the stereotypical 'Eastern Europe' image you might have. Costs are also closer too, though quality of food and accommodation tends to be high so it's good value. Very beautiful little country.

Haven't been, but Sarajevo and Mostar (Bosnia Hercegovina), the Durmitor range and Kotor (Montenegro) and Lake Ohrid (Macedonia) come highly recommended. Have also heard good things about the south of Albania and old towns/cities of Transylvania (Brasov, Sighisoara etc.) The highlight of Croatia is definitely the coastal area and also (I've heard) the Plitvice lakes.

I love Moscow, and can also strongly recommend Kiev. If you don't go to Russia then Kiev will give you an idea of what it is like, but for much less money and with slightly more of a 'Central European' atmosphere. L'viv is considered to be the best city in Ukraine for tourists- a bit cliched, but kind of a 'new Prague' without the tourist hordes. St Petersburg comes very highly recommended. Ukraine is cheap, Russia much more expensive for accommodation, transport and food.

Bear in mind in Russia and Ukraine you can save on a night's accommodation by travelling on a sleeper train. Kupe is more comfortable but Platskart is usually fine.

Also bear in mind that when you cross from Ukraine to Moldova you'll be travelling through the PMR/Transdniestria which can cause hassles at the border. Probably best to approach from the south, I believe there is a bus from Odessa to Chisinau which bypasses Tiraspol.

Finally, in most of these countries train travel is not the way to go- exceptions being Russia and Ukraine. An Interrail ticket will be a waste of money given the limited routes and cheapness of tickets.

[Tobinobin]

Wow, you guys are crazily helpful. So I should basically cut out Russia/the Baltic/Romania and not bother with an inter-rail pass? I might be traveling with someone who's also from Scotland who wants to visit Sweden, Italy and France. If we were to do an Eastern Europe/Balkans/Central Europe trip with those countries included, would there be any point in getting an inter-rail ticket?

@Rawkus - I really don't know man. I'll need to find out exactly where I'm going first before I start budgeting. Hopefully not too much, but I have quite a bit saved.

@ Pancel - I'm totally visiting you haha. Would I not be able to take a train or something to Ukraine, then head down to the Balkans / Istanbul? I've taken all your suggestions aboard, and I'll be looking up each place individually and figuring out where I'm going

@ standstreams - How much are visas for Russia? And why would it make couchsurfing hard? Again, your suggestions sound very interesting and I'll look into them. Shame that the inter-rail doesn't reach those countries. I'm guessing buses / coaches are quite cheap?

Thanks,

Tobinobin.

[Panceltic]

Yes, I think you should cross out the Baltic (which you can visit next year ) and Russia which is large enough for another trip.

I agree with the recommendation for Český Krumlov - the place is amazing.

If you'll go to Bosnia&Herzegovina, you should maybe consider to go from Zagreb to Sarajevo, then to Mostar (fantastic place, and that bridge ...), and then on to the Croatian coast (town of Ploče) - there is a nice seaside resort of Makarska at about 30 km away, or take a ferry to any of the numerous islands. Sadly, the only way back using trains will be through mostar and sarajevo again ...

Plitvice lakes are also very highly recommended, but not really railway-connected.

I don't think an Interrail pass will pay-off ... I think it's best if you buy tickets as you go, especially in the Balkans.

And yes, I suppose you can go Netherlands-Germany-Poland-Ukraine and then south through Romania to Sofia (Bulgaria) where there is a train to Istanbul (if you want to include that).

Albania has its own railway, but it is not connected to any neighbouring countries' rail, so tough luck, but you can go there by bus from let's say Montenegro. (btw, Montenegro only has connections with Serbia - a direct train to Belgrade. takes 12 hours I believe).

I don't know what kind of things do you like, but a mix of huge modern cities like Berlin and Warsaw, some "oriental-style" Bosnia, the quintessential Central European cities like Budapest, Zagreb, Vienna, Prague, Bratislava, Ljubljana; the orthodox Ukraine, and a lot of countryside you will travel through will be magnificent!

[Panceltic]

Oh and I forgot to mention the really helpful site seat61.com you should definitively check that one. it has information about reaching your destinations by train and about internal train travel, as well as prices. Good luck !

[Paul PTS]

(Original post by Tobinobin)
@ standstreams - How much are visas for Russia? And why would it make couchsurfing hard? Again, your suggestions sound very interesting and I'll look into them. Shame that the inter-rail doesn't reach those countries. I'm guessing buses / coaches are quite cheap?

Have you ever worked as young lawyer at Moscow?
If you haven't, you should understand that all the work of such person is to wait his turn for hours, collect the documents and run around Moscow from one place to another.
Different VISAs, different list of documents to collect.
The larger the city you going to stay, the more time the host need to spend waiting his turn with the documents in FMS.

[standreams]

(Original post by Tobinobin)

@ standstreams - How much are visas for Russia? And why would it make couchsurfing hard? Again, your suggestions sound very interesting and I'll look into them. Shame that the inter-rail doesn't reach those countries. I'm guessing buses / coaches are quite cheap?

Thanks,

Tobinobin.

I spent about £110 on my Russian visa, but I went through an agency to get the necessary visa support. If you have time to spare to deal with the Russian embassy directly, then it is cheaper (don't quote me- think about £40?).

In Russia and Belarus you need to register for every night of your stay. This is also true technically for many other European countries, but they tend not to enforce the rules. It's also true for foreign visitors to Britain. But in Russia and Belarus they take the registration rules much more seriously. If you stay in a hotel or some other official accommodation, then registration happens at check in- you don't need to do anything. But if you stay in a private home, then after x number of days (think it is a week now for Russia) you need to go to an office, queue up, and register there. Your host will need to come with you and fill in some documentation of their own- it's a hassle and takes about 3-5 hours to complete.

You'll need to show your registration documents when you leave the country, and sometimes these will be thoroughly checked with any discrepancies resulting in a (substantial) fine.

Train travel is the way to go in Russia. Train travel isn't 'cheap' but is good value when you consider the distances involved. Also, as most trains are overnight, you save on the cost of a night's accommodation. The same is true of Ukraine where the distances are smaller but trains tend to be cheaper than in Russia.

Russia is not a cheap country.

[Tobinobin]

@ Pan - I quite like a mix of everything. Night life, nature, history and culture (bar art - not a fan of art really) all interest me. I want to see each country for what it is collectively, rather than going on a trip just to see rare bird species / find the cheapest place to party etc.

@Summering - I heard about that...it's horrible. I'm white (Scottish) thankfully in this situation.

@ Paul and standstreams - I'll probably skip Russia as Pan says for the time being. I've heard good things about Ukraine though, and I do want to visit L'viv and Kiev (I really want to see Chernobyl, that might be expensive though )

[standreams]

(Original post by Tobinobin)

@ Paul and standstreams - I'll probably skip Russia as Pan says for the time being. I've heard good things about Ukraine though, and I do want to visit L'viv and Kiev (I really want to see Chernobyl, that might be expensive though )

Ukraine is wonderful. I haven't been to L'viv but only hear great things about it. I loved Kiev, it's a big city (a couple of million people) so has a nice urban buzz, full of onion domes, historic churches, good mix of places to eat and drink, nice parks in the river. Chernobyl is expensive to visit but totally, totally worth it. One of the most impressive, historically significant and unique places I have ever visited. And Pripyat' is strangely, hauntingly beautiful.

I've also heard good things about the Ukrainian part of the Carpathian mountains, and Crimea too. I think Ukraine will be one of the highlights of your trip- it's very much part of Europe but not quite the Europe we are perhaps familiar with.

[rawkus]

(Original post by Panceltic)
Albania has its own railway, but it is not connected to any neighbouring countries' rail, so tough luck, but you can go there by bus from let's say Montenegro. (btw, Montenegro only has connections with Serbia - a direct train to Belgrade. takes 12 hours I believe).

I wouldn't wish Albania's railways on anyone. They are practically decrepit, stink of ****, smashed windows are are several times slower then the minibuses. In fact I was told by several locals that the Tirana to Durres line has been known in the past to just stop half way and kick everyone off for whatever reason.

To get to Montenegro you must get a coach to Shkodra in the North, try and find a taxi driver to take you to the border and then if the taxi driver has the right papers he will carry on to Ulcinj whereby you can get a coach to Podgradica in Montenegro from which there are trains to Sarajevo and Belgrade. If the driver doesnt have the right papers you must train taxi drivers. The taxi drivers here are liable to rip you off and the journey can cost anywhere between £10 and £40.

There is supposed to be a mythical minibus service from Samson Travel Agency (Behind the big hotel in the centre where you are dropped off by the coach) in Shkodra to Ulcinj but in the several times that I have done this journey, I have never seen this minibus and the dude in the agency says that it is once a day at an awkward time (i forget when exactly).

[Panceltic]

I have done some research and there are following night trains available - saving you the cost of accommodation.

The night trains:

Amsterdam-Berlin
Berlin-Warsaw (change in Poznań in the middle of the night, you can also use the day train)
Warsaw-Krakow - should use the day train
Krakow-Lviv
Lviv-Kyiv
Kyiv-Sofia (this one takes 37 hours). It stops in Bucharest so you can spend some time there, too; except if you'll leave out Romania.
Sofia-Belgrade (reputedly always late for about 2 hours)
Belgrade-Zagreb (better to use the day train though)

For the following you should take the day trains:

Zagreb-Ljubljana takes just over two hours
Ljubljana-Budapest just one train a day (arr 0850 dep 1745), alternatively there is a train from Maribor (arr 0200 dep 0950, thursdays and sundays only)
Budapest-Vienna takes 3 hours
Vienna-Bratislava takes 1 hour 20 min
Bratislava-Prague takes 4 - 5 hrs
Prague-Munich: daytime direct train, 6 hrs

Munich-Paris: night train, or you can find a cheap airline that flies from munich.

For the prices, check www.seat61.com

Hope that helps!

[jamesfly]

your journey seems to be very interesting but as it is already described above,you will need visas for Belarus,Ukraine and Italy.

[Panceltic]

Not quite true, no visa needed for Italy! It's in the EU. Visas are only needed for Russia, Belarus and Turkey. As already mentioned, Russian and Belorussian visas should be obtain beforehand, it's a tricky and costly process. However, I understand Tobinobin will not visit these countries. Turkish visa is issued on the border for £10 or €15. Regards

[gemini89]

Just want to put in a recommendation for Veliko Tarnovo if you go to Bulgaria. Really lovely city to visit - beautiful and historic, right in the centre of Bulgaria. The £ goes pretty far in Bulgaria too; eating out is cheaper than buying groceries for example.

A mention for Albania too; such an interesting country, doesn't really feel like 'Europe' as most people know it at all. There are some really nice beaches on the west coast too (as long as you get away from the developed ones), opposite Corfu. Again, your money would go much further here.

[Tobinobin]

@ Pan - thank you so much for that information! Once it gets closer to the time, it'll be invaluable and help on saving so much cash. You've been so damn helpful in this thread.

Thanks everyone for the recommendations, I'll certainly look into them all.

[pizzle223]

Hey! I leave on wednesday for a trip which could be up your street -
Amsterdam
Berlin
Krakow
Budapest
belgrade
Various places in Montenegro
Up Croatia at various stops
Slovenia
Munich
and back to holland for a festival!

I'm using a 30 day interrail pass (although I could've done it cheaper but I wanted the freedom)

I budgeted £50 a day for everything, although I'll be leaving with slightly more

I'll update this once i'm back if I remeber!

[Paul PTS]

(Original post by standreams)
L'viv is considered to be the best city in Ukraine for tourists- a bit cliched, but kind of a 'new Prague' without the tourist hordes.

Do you actually understand what you are talking about?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jrrknWZXQA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftCkMse2wxM

[Paul PTS]

(Original post by Summering)
As you've been there, what did you think of the racism situation i nEastern Europe? For instance my friend got put in hospital in St. Petersburg for being non-white (from Syria; they look pretty caucasian so I can only imagine what it's like for brown/black). Did you see anything like this?

The main thing - avoid Western Ukraine. And most of all Lvov.
Local crowds, which assault seventy-eighty years old veterans are still free and you may meet them over there. Local government may do nothing, cause Nazi in Western Ukraine have real political power. The only reason why oldmen were assaulted in Lvov was that they were going with flowers to the monuments to their friends who have died in battle against Hitler and his Allies.

If even eighty years old people were the victims of Nazi assault at Lvov, imagine what local drunk youth will do with you.
Be careful, like in the song: "while the Nazi murderers still walk the land"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3bJCgL12mA


What else can be said when: Peace Street in the village of Razliv in western Ukraine's Lvov region was renamed Nachtigall Battalion Warriors Street .
http://en.ria.ru/world/20111014/167690612.html