[Gremlins]

(Original post by ufo2012)
As I mentioned before, legalising gay marriage will mean that the tax system will take a hit - those missing taxes will have to be found somewhere.

....sorry, what?. 1) marriage tax benefits extend to civil partnerships anyway and 2) you'd seriously suggest that I should have fewer rights than you as a matter of financial expedience? Seriously?

[ufo2012]

(Original post by Gremlins)
....sorry, what?. 1) marriage tax benefits extend to civil partnerships anyway and 2) you'd seriously suggest that I should have fewer rights than you as a matter of financial expedience? Seriously?

As I mentioned I discussed this before, it was actually in a different thread and was/is specifically when children are brought into it that the figures would change.

And did I suggest at all you should have fewer rights as a matter of financial expedience? No I did not, I said nothing of the sort and nor did I imply so.

My criticism is of the government which you will see if you re-read my post.

[Dee Leigh]

(Original post by bambamty)
If got Hates homosexuals so much, why did he go out of his way to create them? Because according to the bible, god creates us all right? Therefore homosexuals have every right to get married.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

This is exactly what I wonder.

[Dee Leigh]

(Original post by superpig22)
Everyone is complaining about Christians not allowing it but what about other religions...
Was talking to a Muslim about it and they really don't get why no one is complaining about them not allowing gay marriage in a mosque


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

Exactly.

Why just Christianity?

But I think it's because this country is pedominantly a Christian country. Also to target other religions would be seen as 'offensive' and un-PC.


This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my GT-S5830

[lima1]

Marriage is for the pro creation of children... how can two men or two women naturally achieve this? They can't. A same sex couple can not get married in Church as their situation is in conflict with the principles that of the institution. I'm not sure why a same sex couple would want to get married in a Church if they oppose its beliefs. If you oppose the priciples of a institution, religion etc by nature you would surely avoid association with that particular body.

[ufo2012]

(Original post by Dee Leigh)
Why just Christianity?

But I think it's because this country is pedominantly a Christian country. Also to target other religions would be seen as 'offensive' and un-PC.

Guess it's just acceptable not considered offensive to target Christians.

[Bella_trixxx]

(Original post by lima1)
Marriage is for the pro creation of children... how can two men or two women naturally achieve this? They can't. A same sex couple can not get married in Church as their situation is in conflict with the principles that of the institution. I'm not sure why a same sex couple would want to get married in a Church if they oppose its beliefs. If you oppose the priciples of a institution, religion etc by nature you would surely avoid association with that particular body.

Well, there are gay Christians, and there are churches accepting of homosexuality who would be happy to perform gay marriages.
Incidentally, if the purpose of marriage is procreation, should a couple who are infertile get married? How about a couple who could have children, but choose not to?

[FSP]

(Original post by heyhey922)
Which is why Churches should get to CHOOSE whether to allow a same sex couple marry at their location. Rather than the government saying. Nope, no choice. I dont care if the Quakers and various Jewish denomination want it. Im going to protect religious freedom my not allowing them the freedom to choose.

The worry in some quarters is it opens them up to discrimination lawsuits like the couple with the B and B.
in the last post I said if individual churches want to fine, but their should be no state compulsion.

There are two separate debates.
1) Should the Church be able to ensure couples who want to get married live by certain beliefs and practises of the host institution.

That is the point I was talking about.The other one is should same sex marriage be legal and is Marriage a religious vow or secular etc would it undermine the family etc. I was talking about the 1st point, the 2nd point is is never ending and I have nothing to say on it.

[lima1]

(Original post by Bella_trixxx)
Well, there are gay Christians, and there are churches accepting of homosexuality who would be happy to perform gay marriages.
Incidentally, if the purpose of marriage is procreation, should a couple who are infertile get married? How about a couple who could have children, but choose not to?

Well if you are a strict Christian, marriage allows you to have sex and therefore the ability to have children. So, I suppose choosing not to demonstrates the status of your relationship and you have in Gods eyes the right to have sex even if you choose not to. As for those man and women physically anable to have children they might accept it was God's plan for them not to have children or a test of faith.

[Dinnes]

to suddenly extend it to gay people will undermine marriage's link with its institutional history

I'm not sure people actually care that much about not changing anything. Do remember that our history was also made up of laws justifying slavery and homophobia, and the whole point of a civilised society is one that constantly updates and improves laws - if we assumed that the laws set out by a new nation were perfect then I believe we would be both misguided and arrogant.

It seems obvious to me that people who get married respect their marriage because of the institution's history

And to be honest, I think this bit is pretty much rubbish - at least, it gives a severely unrepresentative view of British society. People respect their marriage because they're goddamn marrying the person they love the most!

separating it from its history will cheapen it, lessen the respect it commands, and have a damaging effect on British families

I'm not sure this is a real issue - the whole gravitas of a marriage is founded in the authenticity of it; i.e. the relationship between the two people, rather than the history. I do agree that some get married partially because it's what everyone does, but this is not the most important part of marriage. You speak about marriage as if it were a yearly tradition, like Thanksgiving or Christmas - with those I would agree with you. But marriage is about the people, not the place or past.

I'm sorry if I appear annoyed (I'm not, don't worry :P), but like I said, marriage isn't primarily about the history; it plays a part, but the reason so many people are calling for justifying gay marriage is that it *shouldn't be* about the history, it should be about the two people dedicating their lives to eachother.

Dan

[Scienceisgood]

(Original post by lima1)
Marriage is for the pro creation of children... how can two men or two women naturally achieve this? They can't. A same sex couple can not get married in Church as their situation is in conflict with the principles that of the institution. I'm not sure why a same sex couple would want to get married in a Church if they oppose its beliefs. If you oppose the priciples of a institution, religion etc by nature you would surely avoid association with that particular body.

It's not that at all. There are some people who are religious and gay. Although, the feeling like are are being discriminated against for something that is by no fault your own makes one question whether or not they deserve anything they have been presented with because according to "God" who created them, they are living in sin.
Did people ever consider God didn't see anything wrong with them in the first place?

BTW, I'm atheist.

[Scootaloo]

(Original post by lima1)
Marriage is for the pro creation of children...

Is there a compulsory fertily test I need to take before I get married?
If my partner is infertile can we please still get married?
Also what if I don't want children, can I please still get married?

[ufo2012]

(Original post by Scienceisgood)
...makes one question whether or not they deserve anything they have been presented with because according to "God" who created them, they are living in sin...
Did people ever consider God didn't see anything wrong with them in the first place?

Maybe I am misunderstanding but is that not completely confusing and a contradictory statement?

How could "God" be happy with them and not see anything wrong with them if they are living in sin when according to the Bible, God hates sin?

[The Puppet Master]

Personally, I won't get married to either sex unless it's legal for everyone. I am also religious and as a result would love to show the person I want to spend the rest of my life with, that I'm so dedicated to them I'm willing to make a promise to god.

I also think civil partnerships should be available for everyone as not everyone is religious and therefore why would they seek to make a promise to something they don't believe in.

(Original post by ufo2012)
Maybe I am misunderstanding but is that not completely confusing and a contradictory statement?

How could "God" be happy with them and not see anything wrong with them if they are living in sin when according to the Bible, God hates sin?

God didn't write the bible, man did. It's been poorly translated and I'm not sure about you but I've actually read the bible and haven't actually found anywhere that says same sex couples are in sin...

I am a Christian, for the record.

[Presenttime]

Are churches owned by the state or the church ? If the church, then the church can invite whoever they want into their building, respect their property rights.

[Dmon1Unlimited]

12 pages in a 1-2 day old post... Really?

Is this that controversial? -_-

[ufo2012]

(Original post by The Puppet Master)
God didn't write the bible, man did. It's been poorly translated and I'm not sure about you but I've actually read the bible and haven't actually found anywhere that says same sex couples are in sin...

I am a Christian, for the record.

Sorry I'm not actually arguing the point, I'm simply asking here if I understood the poster correctly or if they contradicted themselves without realising, or if they did so for some other reason. All down to their wording.

But for your own reference, it does mention in the OT somewhere that a man with another man is an "abomination" (translated from: Tow`ebah - meaning "a disgusting thing, abomination, abominable, detestable, loathsome").

[Mazzini]

(Original post by tufc)
Such an ancient institution shouldn't be changed just for reasons of PC inclusiveness, for crying out loud!

It's not PC, for crying out loud!

It is about treating people equally no matter their sexual orientation (which, I might add, is not their own choice).

As for the original question, yes, what about gay Christians? I am one... However, I don't think churches should be forced to.

[madders94]

(Original post by lima1)
Marriage is for the pro creation of children... how can two men or two women naturally achieve this? They can't. A same sex couple can not get married in Church as their situation is in conflict with the principles that of the institution. I'm not sure why a same sex couple would want to get married in a Church if they oppose its beliefs. If you oppose the priciples of a institution, religion etc by nature you would surely avoid association with that particular body.

By that theory, infertile couples and couples where the woman is past the menopause should be banned from marrying too?

Everyone else picks and chooses which bits of the Bible they want to follow, why can't homosexuals? Heterosexual couples have sex before marriage and cheat on their partners and mix fabrics, and yet they still get married in a church, and atheist couples get married in churches (I intend to!) - why do we have more rights to a marriage in a church than a Christian homosexual couple who follow the Bible more than these heterosexual couples do, purely because - if we're saying God created the universe and everyone in it - God created them to love people of the same sex?

[tufc]

(Original post by Mazzini)
It's not PC, for crying out loud!

It is about treating people equally no matter their sexual orientation (which, I might add, is not their own choice).

As for the original question, yes, what about gay Christians? I am one... However, I don't think churches should be forced to.

Giving civil partnerships the same legal consequence as marriage would be treating them equally. Legalising gay marriage is like legislating to force film producers to give white people an equal opportunity in the casting process for a film about slaves. Marriage is inherently heterosexual, and I simply don't see the need for gay marriage, as long as civil partnerships are given the same legal consequence.
Why do people want to get married? It's for three reasons:
a)To declare their love for each other
b)For the legal security it offers
c)To be a part of a historic institution.

If civil partnerships can offer (a) and (b), why do gay people want (c), when that history is inherently heterosexual? It's all about imperialism, and equality for equality's sake.