[pr0view]

(Original post by Hopple)
Yeah, I think merely being paid a salary means he has a vested interest in having something to 'stand up against' or 'fight for'. If there were no disputes then he'd be out of a job.

They should go to the third world where there are real disputes and workers actually have it hard.

[bkeevin]

(Original post by Donald Duck)
That could result in significantly more jobs and oppertunities, stopping all those current university graduates from going into unemployment.

Of course there will always be winners and losers for every changes you make. Although almost 90% of the population are employed. Removing any sort of employee protection will depress overall wages but the current unemployed minority will end up better off. Maybe we should opt for the revolution then!!!

[alex5455]

(Original post by pr0view)
They will end up like the coal miners, unemployed. Many other metro system use computers to drive the trains which cost less to initially buy and install that to pay a driver to press a button for a year. Plus you don't have to pay a computer. I love the free market

and thats why we have unions to protect workers, thankfully from people like you

[Hopple]

(Original post by alex5455)
and thats why we have unions to protect workers, thankfully from people like you

I think a lot of the resentment towards Bob Crow and co is due to the fact that tube drivers are paid well above the national average for what is a relatively unskilled job (the only downside is that it's effectively a night shift all the time).

[alex5455]

(Original post by Hopple)
I think a lot of the resentment towards Bob Crow and co is due to the fact that tube drivers are paid well above the national average for what is a relatively unskilled job (the only downside is that it's effectively a night shift all the time).

these right wingers criticising them love the supply and demand of the market, the demand is huge and these drivers control the supply, they are "securing their economic wellbeing" to use the same justification used for tax avoidance and to be honest i think they do deserve a bonus for working the olympics, many more passengers, cant go on holiday, more unsociable shifts

[Hopple]

(Original post by alex5455)
these right wingers criticising them love the supply and demand of the market, the demand is huge and these drivers control the supply, they are "securing their economic wellbeing" to use the same justification used for tax avoidance and to be honest i think they do deserve a bonus for working the olympics, many more passengers, cant go on holiday, more unsociable shifts

You need not be a right-winger to dislike having to make your own way into work, or having to decide between an extortionate congestion charge and extortionate ticket prices.

[alex5455]

(Original post by Hopple)
You need not be a right-winger to dislike having to make your own way into work, or having to decide between an extortionate congestion charge and extortionate ticket prices.

they are hypocrites, they love the market except when it affects them badly and someone they consider below them gets one over on them and i couldnt love it more if i tried

[Hopple]

(Original post by alex5455)
they are hypocrites, they love the market except when it affects them badly and someone they consider below them gets one over on them and i couldnt love it more if i tried

Are you related to Bob Crow or something? Portraying people on 50k who have control of the transport system millions of people depend on to more likely than not make quite a lot less as the underdog is ridiculous.

[alex5455]

(Original post by Hopple)
Are you related to Bob Crow or something? Portraying people on 50k who have control of the transport system millions of people depend on to more likely than not make quite a lot less as the underdog is ridiculous.

no connection at all.

they are the underdogs in the grand scheme of things, most are unqualified and are in a good circumstance because for once the market didnt favour the rich and the hypocritical right hate that fact and i just relish it

[moregano]

(Original post by pr0view)
They will end up like the coal miners, unemployed. Many other metro system use computers to drive the trains which cost less to initially buy and install that to pay a driver to press a button for a year. Plus you don't have to pay a computer. I love the free market

Just so you're aware, there are several good reasons London Underground hasn't yet been able to use driverless trains. None of these are to do with the unions.

[Hopple]

(Original post by alex5455)
no connection at all.

they are the underdogs in the grand scheme of things, most are unqualified and are in a good circumstance because for once the market didnt favour the rich and the hypocritical right hate that fact and i just relish it

The market is favouring people on 50k upwards, that's favouring teh rich.

(Original post by moregano)
Just so you're aware, there are several good reasons London Underground hasn't yet been able to use driverless trains. None of these are to do with the unions.

What's wrong with the DLR?

[alex5455]

(Original post by Hopple)
The market is favouring people on 50k upwards, that's favouring teh rich.



What's wrong with the DLR?

they are getting 50k because the unions stood up for them, most of them were unqualified and poorly paid beforehand, the market favoured the workers for a change

[Hopple]

(Original post by alex5455)
they are getting 50k because the unions stood up for them, most of them were unqualified and poorly paid beforehand, the market favoured the workers for a change

So they have now become who you (and they used to) despise, but you don't see it?

[alex5455]

(Original post by Hopple)
So they have now become who you (and they used to) despise, but you don't see it?

i dont despise the rich, i despise hypocritical right wingers who constantly cry foul about workers getting a better deal for themselves just because it doesnt fit with their ideal of poor stay poor

[Hopple]

(Original post by alex5455)
i dont despise the rich, i despise hypocritical right wingers who constantly cry foul about workers getting a better deal for themselves just because it doesnt fit with their ideal of poor stay poor

And what about the ordinary worker in London who pay ever increasing fares just to get to work? Or are they acceptable collateral just so it annoys certain people you despise?

[alex5455]

(Original post by Hopple)
And what about the ordinary worker in London who pay ever increasing fares just to get to work? Or are they acceptable collateral just so it annoys certain people you despise?

considering they werent striking for a general payrise just an olympic bonus that isnt really relevant to this arguement, but the fare hikes are just because tfl wants profits, eventally tfl will push it too far and people will use alternatives, lets face it london gets so much spent on it they should have alternatives and if not where is this money going too

[Hopple]

(Original post by alex5455)
considering they werent striking for a general payrise just an olympic bonus that isnt really relevant to this arguement, but the fare hikes are just because tfl wants profits, eventally tfl will push it too far and people will use alternatives, lets face it london gets so much spent on it they should have alternatives and if not where is this money going too

That wasn't the only time they've threatened to go on strike, and those previous demands for pay rises along with their already high salaries are very relevant to this argument.

[moregano]

(Original post by Hopple)
What's wrong with the DLR?

- Modern network
- A fraction of the number of people using it
- Much smaller distance between stops
- Modern, sub-surface tunnels (as opposed to deep tube)
- Tunnel lights and space for walking alongside the track throughout
- Modern signalling system

And let's not forget that the trains aren't actually unstaffed - they have PSAs ("train captains") who are currently on around £40k and are trained to drive the trains if necessary.

[Hopple]

(Original post by moregano)
- Modern network
- A fraction of the number of people using it
- Much smaller distance between stops
- Modern, sub-surface tunnels (as opposed to deep tube)
- Tunnel lights and space for walking alongside the track throughout
- Modern signalling system

And let's not forget that the trains aren't actually unstaffed - they have PSAs ("train captains") who are currently on around £40k and are trained to drive the trains if necessary.

I think the only downside there is number 5, the rest wouldn't matter if you put such a train on one of the other lines (and I'm not sure 1, 3, 4 and 6 are actually downsides - plus 5 has safety upsides as well as the cost downside). Also, £40k is 20% cheaper than the £50k tube drivers demand.

[moregano]

(Original post by Hopple)
I think the only downside there is number 5, the rest wouldn't matter if you put such a train on one of the other lines (and I'm not sure 1, 3, 4 and 6 are actually downsides - plus 5 has safety upsides as well as the cost downside). Also, £40k is 20% cheaper than the £50k tube drivers demand.

I'm not sure how you're qualified to decide which of the factors I mentioned matter and which don't, but people who actually manage the railways have made the decision to so far keep drivers on trains due to those factors. Whether you think they're "wrong" doesn't really make a difference.

And after tax (which as you know goes back to the government to use on the railways if they wish), the difference between the two salaries is minimal. The cost of implementing driverless trains, let alone training and paying for staff to supervise them, would put up ticket prices far more than the cost of a driver's annual pay rise.