[Hopple]

(Original post by moregano)
I'm not sure how you're qualified to decide which of the factors I mentioned matter and which don't, but people who actually manage the railways have made the decision to so far keep drivers on trains due to those factors. Whether you think they're "wrong" doesn't really make a difference.

And after tax (which as you know goes back to the government to use on the railways if they wish), the difference between the two salaries is minimal. The cost of implementing driverless trains, let alone training and paying for staff to supervise them, would put up ticket prices far more than the cost of a driver's annual pay rise.

You're the one who said they were downsides, so you're a bit hypocritical to then say I can't say which are downsides.

[gm15]

(Original post by madders94)
And yet they're still on ridiculous salaries.

Not for running the friggin country! Tube drivers get 50 to 61k for driving increasingly automated trains back and forth along the same line. That's more than third of the PM's salary for just start, stop, foward or backwards and stick in x to y speed range.
Ministerial pay could maybe do with a reduction but I wouldn't say its ridiculous when you consider what tube drivers get.

[tsnake23]

(Original post by alex5455)
considering they werent striking for a general payrise just an olympic bonus that isnt really relevant to this arguement, but the fare hikes are just because tfl wants profits, eventally tfl will push it too far and people will use alternatives, lets face it london gets so much spent on it they should have alternatives and if not where is this money going too

I can't believe your even commenting in this topic, you have so little understanding of what your talking about.

TFL does not make profits, it is a government body. It receives funding from fares paid on the TFL network, and since this does not cover its expenditure, it also receives approx £3 billion of subsidies from central government. Tube drivers ridiculous salaries therefore directly hit both the average Londoner and every taxpayer in this country.

Also tube drivers striking over demands for an Olympic bonus is completely absurd. Considering tube drivers only work 35 hour weeks, they will receive a fortune if, god forbid, they had to do more overtime during the Olympics. Most jobs involve certain periods of the year where you will have an increased workload and you take it on the chin - tube drivers use it as an excuse to force the taxpayer to fork over yet more of their money to supplement their ridiculous pay cheques.

Whether your politically aligned left or right, I cannot see how anyone could support tube drivers striking over the petty reasons that they do. I for one seriously cannot wait for automated trains and the demise of Bob Crow.

[bkeevin]

(Original post by gm15)
Not for running the friggin country! Tube drivers get 50 to 61k for driving increasingly automated trains back and forth along the same line. That's more than third of the PM's salary for just start, stop, foward or backwards and stick in x to y speed range.
Ministerial pay could maybe do with a reduction but I wouldn't say its ridiculous when you consider what tube drivers get.

Where did you get your figures for their salaries from. Their basic wage last year was about £42K. Their unions agreed a 4year deal where they get RPI + 0.5% which would bring their wages to around £50K in 2015. If you want to count their employer's pension contribution and travel perks don't you also have to do the same for the other workers you are comparing them with? The tubeworker's wages are not significantly different to the other drivers in the rail industry be it public or private.

[Kibalchich]

(Original post by tsnake23)


I can't believe your even commenting in this topic, you have so little understanding of what your talking about.

TFL does not make profits, it is a government body. It receives funding from fares paid on the TFL network, and since this does not cover its expenditure, it also receives approx £3 billion of subsidies from central government. Tube drivers ridiculous salaries therefore directly hit both the average Londoner and every taxpayer in this country.

Also tube drivers striking over demands for an Olympic bonus is completely absurd. Considering tube drivers only work 35 hour weeks, they will receive a fortune if, god forbid, they had to do more overtime during the Olympics. Most jobs involve certain periods of the year where you will have an increased workload and you take it on the chin - tube drivers use it as an excuse to force the taxpayer to fork over yet more of their money to supplement their ridiculous pay cheques.

Whether your politically aligned left or right, I cannot see how anyone could support tube drivers striking over the petty reasons that they do. I for one seriously cannot wait for automated trains and the demise of Bob Crow.

Which "petty" reasons? Give an example.

[pr0view]

(Original post by alex5455)
and thats why we have unions to protect workers, thankfully from people like you

Do you not understand that the union is the reason they will lose their jobs and they will be powerless to prevent it?

[pr0view]

(Original post by moregano)
Just so you're aware, there are several good reasons London Underground hasn't yet been able to use driverless trains. None of these are to do with the unions.

If a train can be driven by a human being and can most definitely be driven by a computer regardless of the irrelevant reasons you told someone else.

[alex5455]

(Original post by pr0view)
Do you not understand that the union is the reason they will lose their jobs and they will be powerless to prevent it?

the unions are perfectly able to protect them, unless you think every transport worker can be computer replaced? and ha you think you can decide whats irrelevant in computerising the tube, do you manage the tube? no? youre entirely unqualified to say that?

what a surprise

[Hopple]

(Original post by pr0view)
Do you not understand that the union is the reason they will lose their jobs and they will be powerless to prevent it?

That's true, but the union is also the reason they can milk Londoners dry so they can get it all for themselves and leave nothing for the next 'generation' of potential drivers.

[A.J10]

(Original post by Hopple)
The government could do with a national temping agency for youngsters where if anyone goes on strike you get a bunch of work-hungry energetic people in to have a go. Let's face it, driving a bus isn't difficult, there's an actual lane you have dedicated to you. Trains are even easier, just don't go too fast and you'll always be on the rails. If they do a really really good job you can kick out the 'professionals' and reduce fares by 90%.

A nice idea, but it wouldn't work. Driving a bus requires a license different to that of a car, plus there's the fares, routes, company policy and so on to remember. You'd spend far more on retraining somebody to work for at most a week than it'd be worth.

[pr0view]

(Original post by Hopple)
That's true, but the union is also the reason they can milk Londoners dry so they can get it all for themselves and leave nothing for the next 'generation' of potential drivers.

And thats the exact reason they will end up unemployed.

[pr0view]

(Original post by alex5455)
the unions are perfectly able to protect them, unless you think every transport worker can be computer replaced? and ha you think you can decide whats irrelevant in computerising the tube, do you manage the tube? no? youre entirely unqualified to say that?

what a surprise

No there not if, if Transport for London said tomorrow they are going to begin a program of replacing all drivers with computers all they can do is strike up until the necessary technology has been installed and then they are nothing. In the meantime they could use monkeys to drive the trains.

[alex5455]

(Original post by pr0view)
No there not if, if Transport for London said tomorrow they are going to begin a program of replacing all drivers with computers all they can do is strike up until the necessary technology has been installed and then they are nothing. In the meantime they could use monkeys to drive the trains.

didnt realise you were a tube train expert? oh you arent?

you do realise other workers not just tube train drivers are in that union and could cripple other parts of the tfl network? and other unions would strike in sympathy etc

[Hopple]

(Original post by pr0view)
And thats the exact reason they will end up unemployed.

After a massive payoff. Works out pretty well for them, but not for London.

[jacketpotato]

(Original post by pr0view)
No there not if, if Transport for London said tomorrow they are going to begin a program of replacing all drivers with computers all they can do is strike up until the necessary technology has been installed and then they are nothing. In the meantime they could use monkeys to drive the trains.

Automated trains still need a driver. The Jubilee line is now fully automated to reduce journey times - but each train still has a driver to open and close doors, update passengers and deal with faults. The driver can manually take control of the train if needed.

We are still a very long way off from having driverless trains. Do you really trust that TFL will implement a system without technical faults?

[DASmith]

(Original post by pr0view)
No there not if, if Transport for London said tomorrow they are going to begin a program of replacing all drivers with computers all they can do is strike up until the necessary technology has been installed and then they are nothing. In the meantime they could use monkeys to drive the trains.

I'm a qualified main line driver and the insinuation 'monkeys' could drive trains is just a little bit insulting. Train drivers need 9-12 months of intensive training before they are allowed out on their own. I'm also a coach driver (part time) and that licence isn't easy to get either although it takes less time.

If anyone has any questions regarding train driving or bus / coach driving I'm more than happy to help.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

[pr0view]

(Original post by jacketpotato)
Automated trains still need a driver. The Jubilee line is now fully automated to reduce journey times - but each train still has a driver to open and close doors, update passengers and deal with faults. The driver can manually take control of the train if needed.

We are still a very long way off from having driverless trains. Do you really trust that TFL will implement a system without technical faults?

Could normal staff not operate the doors from within the stations?

[pr0view]

(Original post by DASmith)
I'm a qualified main line driver and the insinuation 'monkeys' could drive trains is just a little bit insulting. Train drivers need 9-12 months of intensive training before they are allowed out on their own. I'm also a coach driver (part time) and that licence isn't easy to get either although it takes less time.

If anyone has any questions regarding train driving or bus / coach driving I'm more than happy to help.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

Sorry to offend

[A.J10]

(Original post by pr0view)
Could normal staff not operate the doors from within the stations?

Then you need to hire a door operator at every station :L

This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my E15i

[jacketpotato]

(Original post by pr0view)
Could normal staff not operate the doors from within the stations?

You'd need a door operator on every platform. Some of the busiest stations have staff on the platform in peak hours, but most stations only have someone in the ticket office and someone on the barriers.