[Bill_Gates]

(Original post by Parzival)
This is a good point. If you're not an athlete (or don't engage in intensive training), what is all the fuss about protein intake?

We are living in the developed world. We are not hunter gatherers. People merely make this excuse about protein just because they like the taste of meat and dont want to THINK about what they are eating. But dont worry theres billions of people like that in the world. I call them sheep.

[Dinnes]

(Original post by STFU)
For some reason this thread has made me crave a bacon sandwich

Probably my signature ;DD

[Dinnes]

(Original post by Bella_trixxx)
Rennet is usually contained in hard cheeses such as grana padano, pecorino, parmesan and sometimes also in brie, not in cheddar or mozzarella.

They use grana padano in a lot of restaurants nowadays, be careful :P

[Dinnes]

(Original post by Bella_trixxx)
I'm pretty sure it wasn't me who said that... did you mean to quote someone else? Cows, chickens etc. are bred intensively and specifically to create meat and as such there are much more of them in the world than there would otherwise be, so of course I'd rather they were never born!

For animals which live in the conditions described by the typical ethic-based vegetarian argument, I would perhaps agree. But for those animals who actually have a good quality of life, or even an average one, I think it is worth it.

The question is more about how many live life a) and how many live life b).

[Dinnes]

(Original post by Bill_Gates)
But dont worry theres billions of people like that in the world. I call them sheep.

Yummy

[Bill_Gates]

(Original post by Dinnes)
Yummy

Oh look the "highly educated" a level student makes a witty comment.

[TheGrinningSkull]

(Original post by Bella_trixxx)
Yes sir!

1) You got me, in my speed I just looked up the first website I saw for statistics, which so happened to be a US website. My broader point wasn't the name of the hormone, though - it was the high rates of mastitis in dairy cows. These stand at about somewhere between 47 and 65 cases per 100 cows/year, which is an abnormally high amount, hormone or no hormone.
http://www.mastitiscontrolplan.co.uk...id=18&Itemid=8
http://www.reading.ac.uk/AcaDepts/aa...stitiscost.htm

2) 8 or 9 months before weaning? Every source I can see says 6/8 weeks (http://www.ukagriculture.com/livesto...ing_calves.cfm , http://www.bsas.org.uk/downloads/ann...df2003/112.pdf ), although I can find some sources to suggest that in some cases they are indeed weaned from birth (http://www.factoryfarming.org.uk/beef.html, also http://www.vegsoc.org/page.aspx?pid=556 suggests that most are taken away between 24 - 48 hours of birth)

3)I believe my claims were:
-Male chickens killed shortly after hatching: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick_culling , http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_273652.html (this wepage has proof of the process of maceration, that is being ground up alive)
-Force molting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_molting
-Killed at 18 months old: http://www.animalprotectionparty.com/index.php?id=12 , http://www.ciwf.org.uk/farm_animals/...s/default.aspx .

Regarding the forced molting which is the only link I have read, did you read what it says here?

In the UK, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs states In no circumstances may birds be induced to moult by withholding feed and water.

[Dinnes]

(Original post by Bill_Gates)
Oh look the "highly educated" a level student makes a witty comment.

If you're interested I eat meat because I believe the life the animals live is (except in the few cases with the whole baby-grinding machines and the like) better than the fact that they die.

I.e. value of life > fact that they ultimately get eaten
Ergo it's morally justifiable to breed animals for meat.

But of course your opinion is different. Flaming people and being intolerant will get you nowhere.

[Bill_Gates]

(Original post by Dinnes)
If you're interested I eat meat because I believe the life the animals live is (except in the few cases with the whole baby-grinding machines and the like) better than the fact that they die.

I.e. value of life > fact that they ultimately get eaten
Ergo it's morally justifiable to breed animals for meat.

But of course your opinion is different. Flaming people and being intolerant will get you nowhere.

I will stick to the first comment i made because your reply was pathetic.

[NocturnalInsomniac]

(Original post by Dinnes)
They use grana padano in a lot of restaurants nowadays, be careful :P

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty...-re-vegetarian

Not sure if they can be trusted anyway..

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by Bella_trixxx)
There are vegan bodybuilders out there! http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/

Yet but I'd be willing to bet most of them have taken steroids (those that look good at least).

[Bella_trixxx]

(Original post by NocturnalInsomniac)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty...-re-vegetarian

Not sure if they can be trusted anyway..

Yep, parmesan under EU law HAS to contain animal rennet, so no parmesan is vegetarian.

[NocturnalInsomniac]

(Original post by Bella_trixxx)
Yep, parmesan under EU law HAS to contain animal rennet, so no parmesan is vegetarian.

Thats fair enough. But the article suggests that there may be mistakes regarding the suitability of vegetarian food by some restaurants in the UK...does that happen often?

[When you see it...]

(Original post by Bella_trixxx)
I'm pretty sure it wasn't me who said that... did you mean to quote someone else? Cows, chickens etc. are bred intensively and specifically to create meat and as such there are much more of them in the world than there would otherwise be, so of course I'd rather they were never born!

I messed up the quote, sorry.

[When you see it...]

I'll try again:

(Original post by Dinnes)
By the way, I would rather I had a good life and died at the end (we aren't immortal anyway) than not being born at all. And I think most other people think the same. I just don't understand why with animals you'd rather they'd never been born!

Off-topic, but what is your opinion on aborting a child if, once it is born it would be raised in a dysfunctional family? It is the same principle.

[Dinnes]

(Original post by When you see it...)
I'll try again:



Off-topic, but what is your opinion on aborting a child if, once it is born it would be raised in a dysfunctional family? It is the same principle.

Sorry, I must have missed your post, my bad totally.

In that scenario, of course things would be different. I understand your argument - that animals have a sufficiently bad life to justify them not ever being born.

It is really a matter of opinion, and which facts and figures you believe. I am under the belief that the majority of animals live good lives, simply because a lot of the 'evidence' people have shown me proves in reality to be unreliable. If you can find a government report, or a report with high credibility, that shows that farm animals have poor lives then I will be much more inclined to believe it.

[Dinnes]

(Original post by When you see it...)
I messed up the quote, sorry.

Yeah that was me, sorry, didn't pick up on that I've answered it in the previous post btw