[Sabertooth]

(Original post by Clare~Bear)
it would be hard to tell cos they'd probably be on anti-psychotic medication, so they appear normal.

psychosis =/= psychopathy.

[Clare~Bear]

(Original post by Sabertooth)
psychosis =/= psychopathy.

Ooops, sorry, I got mixed up, it's an easy mistake to make - really worth a neg? (by someone that's sad and pedantic - it was a genuine mistake, jeez) I've changed my post.

[Bellissima]

(Original post by raaachek)
But are you really a psychopath if you're open to the possibility that you are one? I thought a psychopath could never be convinced that they were one.

no from what i gather psychopaths can accept that they can be termed as psychopaths, they are just not bothered by it.

[Elipsis]

(Original post by Aoide)
There are situations but they are selfish ones. If someones success would be beneficial to me or I agree with their goals then i'll help if I can. I will do things which typicall appear altruistic and giving but the motive will always be selfish- even it is as simple as just being fun. I certainly won't go out of my way to stop others unless I have a good reason, i'm not at all sadistic.

Detatched is a good way of looking at it. I'll use people and make ruthless choices if that is what is required to get what I want but I don't harbour any bad feeling for people, they were just unfortunate enough to be in the way. I'm not out to do evil things, good and evil doesn't even come into my decisions. This does make me sound like a **** but there are a suprising number of situations where people are glad to have someone who can make the hard choices.



Psychopaths are usually attributed with being more inteligent. I'm not sure if they really are or if their personality just makes better use of the inteligence they do have. I would consider myself intelligent but I know that my nature means that why I really apply myself I get better results and I will do pretty much anything to get what I want. Psychopaths like control, if they are serious about doing something they can be very focused and thorough. Sociopaths tend to fall into two groups depending on how long their attention span is. A lot have very low attention span meaning they can't really stick at anything for long. The others are the one which tend to be more successful because while they want to get to their goals quickly they will put the time if they have to. A lot of these end up in fairly high postions. Oddly doctor is a fairly common job because it is well paid, repsected and importantly being detached is a great help- they won't feel anything when patients die and will have no issue operating.

You're off the mark a bit. Psychopath and sociopath are interchangable. There is no agreement on any difference between the two terms. Psychopaths are impuslive and in my experience aren't that good at being focused and thorough for any serious length of time, without pulling a disappearing act for at least a few days if not weeks at a time. They are pathological liars, and although they are capable of putting in real effort to get to the top, they will always always cheat and take short cuts.

[Aoide]

Oh I somewhat lack caring as well. I have a strong utilitarian-based sense of morality, and that is important to me. But I don't have empathy or sympathy. I guess I can understand. It's like the Simpsons quote, "just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand".

Similar to you I can't feel empathy or guilt. I only say i can care because I care about myself, I only care about others in how much they benefit me. Oddly I seem to retain some ability to care for animals, I have pets and wouldn't dream of letting them suffer, I also find causing pain to animals distasteful- I won't judge it but I won't do it either.

But are you really a psychopath if you're open to the possibility that you are one? I thought a psychopath could never be convinced that they were one.

As I have said I display some important defining traits of sociopathy but not others. Not feeling empathy, guilt or the ability to care are traits often used to spot the condition. However unlike many I don't have the constant desire to take whatever I can so I fit in much better socialy. I wouldn't say I was a psychopath but I fall somewhere between normal and sociopathic. I find this gives me an interesting perspective since I understand both sides. I don't feel like you would but i'm able to form relationships because I don't display the destructive characteristics. It is possible to persuade a psychopath that they are one, just don't expect them to see it as a problem.

Depends on what you mean by 'dangerous'. Sure, the average psychopath probably wouldn't kill you, but they would use you for everything you are worth. They are scam artists, and should be avoided at all costs.

Being used doesn't neccessarily mean you will suffer. I use my friends as a source of entertainment and my family as a source of food/housing. I may not ever give anything back but I haven't caused them to suffer either.

You're off the mark a bit. Psychopath and sociopath are interchangable. There is no agreement on any difference between the two terms. Psychopaths are impuslive and in my experience aren't that good at being focused and thorough for any serious length of time, without pulling a disappearing act for at least a few days if not weeks at a time. They are pathological liars, and although they are capable of putting in real effort to get to the top, they will always always cheat and take short cuts.

I understand the terms. Of course they will take shortcuts, they have no reason not to get what they want now, but not every goal can be reached by cheating, sometimes hardwork is the only way. A lot are too impulsive and don't have the attention span for anything major but these tend to be unsuccessful. There are a good number who are able to wait and they usualy do fairly well for themselves. There is a reason they don't often get caught- their aims may change often but for their duration they are very intense.

[Elipsis]

(Original post by Bellissima)
no from what i gather psychopaths can accept that they can be termed as psychopaths, they are just not bothered by it.

Most psychopaths I have known, and there have only been maybe 3-5 definite cases, think everyone is the way they are. They think everyone is just putting on a mask and faking their way through life. Some realise they are definitely different, and they enjoy studying real emotions in people. It is quite the hobby of the psychopath watching cause and effect in real humans, especially given that are so prone to boredom.

[Bellissima]

(Original post by Aoide)
Similar to you I can't feel empathy or guilt. I only say i can care because I care about myself, I only care about others in how much they benefit me. Oddly I seem to retain some ability to care for animals, I have pets and wouldn't dream of letting them suffer, I also find causing pain to animals distasteful- I won't judge it but I won't do it either.


As I have said I display some important defining traits of sociopathy but not others. Not feeling empathy, guilt or the ability to care are traits often used to spot the condition. However unlike many I don't have the constant desire to take whatever I can so I fit in much better socialy. I wouldn't say I was a psychopath but I fall somewhere between normal and sociopathic. I find this gives me an interesting perspective since I understand both sides. I don't feel like you would but i'm able to form relationships because I don't display the destructive characteristics. It is possible to persuade a psychopath that they are one, just don't expect them to see it as a problem.




Being used doesn't neccessarily mean you will suffer. I use my friends as a source of entertainment and my family as a source of food/housing. I may not ever give anything back but I haven't caused them to suffer either.

can you love someone? if you feel love for someone is that a different feeling to your other platonic relationships? if you are romantically attracted to someone do you care aboout them?

[Bellissima]

(Original post by Elipsis)
Most psychopaths I have known, and there have only been maybe 3-5 definite cases, think everyone is the way they are. They think everyone is just putting on a mask and faking their way through life. Some realise they are definitely different, and they enjoy studying real emotions in people. It is quite the hobby of the psychopath watching cause and effect in real humans, especially given that are so prone to boredom.

how come you know so many? were they people you met and admitted they were psychopaths or was it through work?

[Elipsis]

(Original post by Aoide)
Similar to you I can't feel empathy or guilt. I only say i can care because I care about myself, I only care about others in how much they benefit me. Oddly I seem to retain some ability to care for animals, I have pets and wouldn't dream of letting them suffer, I also find causing pain to animals distasteful- I won't judge it but I won't do it either.


As I have said I display some important defining traits of sociopathy but not others. Not feeling empathy, guilt or the ability to care are traits often used to spot the condition. However unlike many I don't have the constant desire to take whatever I can so I fit in much better socialy. I wouldn't say I was a psychopath but I fall somewhere between normal and sociopathic. I find this gives me an interesting perspective since I understand both sides. I don't feel like you would but i'm able to form relationships because I don't display the destructive characteristics. It is possible to persuade a psychopath that they are one, just don't expect them to see it as a problem.




Being used doesn't neccessarily mean you will suffer. I use my friends as a source of entertainment and my family as a source of food/housing. I may not ever give anything back but I haven't caused them to suffer either.

The reason you feel for animals is the same reason you feel for cars, you see them as property, and it makes you angry to see them damaged. Am I right? I happen to think your second paragraph is just your grandoisity coming out, rather than being actually true. You will almost certainly destroy the majority of the relationships in your life, and you won't care. You will probably time them perfectly for when those people are no longer entertainment or providing something of measurable worth to you.

What score do you get on the Hare check list?

[Bellissima]

(Original post by When you see it...)
Assuming exactly 1% of all people are psychopaths, there is an 86.6...% chance that at least one person in your year group is a psychopath:
(1-0.99^(200))*100 = 86.6...%
Does that answer your question or are you just looking for a discussion?
For your entire school:
(1-0.99^(1000))*100 = 99.99568...%
So yeah it's practically certain that there is a psychopath in your school, assuming the 1% figure is correct.

thanks that maths is interesting!!

[When you see it...]

(Original post by Bellissima)
thanks that maths is interesting!!

I assume you were just looking fr a discussion about psychopathy though...

[Bellissima]

(Original post by When you see it...)
I assume you were just looking fr a discussion about psychopathy though...

maybe a bit of both

[Aoide]

Most psychopaths I have known, and there have only been maybe 3-5 definite cases, think everyone is the way they are. They think everyone is just putting on a mask and faking their way through life. Some realise they are definitely different, and they enjoy studying real emotions in people. It is quite the hobby of the psychopath watching cause and effect in real humans, especially given that are so prone to boredom.

Agreed. My inability to feel connections makes it fascinating to discuss how others feel. I am very interested by links between morality, emotion and neuroscience.

can you love someone? if you feel love for someone is that a different feeling to your other platonic relationships? if you are romantically attracted to someone do you care aboout them?

My perception of love still confuses me. True sociopaths cannot feel any kind of love. I can feel something which I would consider love but I don't think it is like you would feel it, it is definately not a caring feeling (although I would do everything possible to help someone which I "loved"). It's very rare and I can't tell what triggers it. It is almost euphoric and I focus entirely on the sensation rather than the person.

[Aoide]

The reason you feel for animals is the same reason you feel for cars, you see them as property, and it makes you angry to see them damaged. Am I right? I happen to think your second paragraph is just your grandoisity coming out, rather than being actually true. You will almost certainly destroy the majority of the relationships in your life, and you won't care. You will probably time them perfectly for when those people are no longer entertainment or providing something of measurable worth to you.

It is very hard to explain but the secon paragraph is true. You are correct in that I wouldn't care if a relationship breaks down but I have no desire for that either. AS I said I don't have the constant desire for power and objects common in psychopaths so I don't feel the need to constantly take. My friends being interesting is enough of a reason, I don't feel the need to take anything else- not because I think I shouldn't but because I am content with the situation. Once a relationship become useless I won't put any effort into it but I don't see any point in actively destroying it.

[Elipsis]

(Original post by Bellissima)
how come you know so many? were they people you met and admitted they were psychopaths or was it through work?

I seem to naturally attract them because I driven, lack a reasonable amount of emotion (I am almost an unhealthy narcissist, but not quite), and used to see their characteristics as desirable in business. They tend to avoid each other, but they latch onto me horrendously. Think of it like the rat climbing on the ox in the Chinese proverb to do with years.

My former business partner was psychopathic. He ticked off just about every single thing on the Hare checklist at a level of 2, apart from wetting the bed which I have no idea about. He got into a lot of trouble as a youth, but his rich father bought him largely out of that. I thought 'excellent, i've got someone on my side who will get stuck in and we'll get a good business going here'. Toward's the seperation phase he become more and more unrealiable. He would disappear for upto a week at a time, he wouldn't transfer money to me or suppliers on time purely to **** with our heads and wind us up to judge the reaction, and in the end he stole every last penny I owned. He is now on the verge of going to prison for his involvement in various things it would be unwise to write about on the internet. He totally screwed his girlfriend of years over, who despite us making an awful lot of money, he had been living off like a cancer - she paid the majority of the rent, bought most of the food, and paid the bills.

Once you've known a few it gets really easy to spot them. Their reactions are just wrong to almost everything. They have zero sense of humour, but they attempt to fake it constantly. They won't make jokes, but they feel the need to pretend they found what you just said funny. They don't refer to the past very much, and when they do there is no mention of how they felt unless it is something they heard someone else say and they felt it sounded poetic and worth repeating. One psychopath I knew growing up came to my school for undefined reasons. I knew he'd been expelled from his previous school, but only later did I find out he had beaten another kid down hard and felt no remorse whatsoever for it. He would lie constantly, and I mean constantly, even when there was no discernable benefit to him. Almost as if it was practise. He would torture animals, but that stopped once I expressed my distaste to him verbally - he had no idea from looking at my facial expressions that he disgusted me. He would promise to do things, like turn up somewhere or something similar, and he would just no show and switch his phone off.

Another thing they make sure to do is talk to people as an individual, one on one. They do not fair well in group atmospheres, where they regularly trip themselves up with their previous lies to group members on a 1 to 1 basis. Because they don't care they will show little remorse if any, because they probably just totally forgot they'd previously lied to you about it. When questioned they will be totally blank like a mannequin in a shop window.

They won't admit they're a psychopath unless it feeds into their inflated ego, or they derive some benefit from it. That's why psychopaths in prison are so happy to play along and meet psychiatrists, simply to relieve the ever present boredom they feel. If you suspect someone is a psychopath, you will probably feel like after spending a lot of time with them they just don't "click" like your other friends. You'll think "i've known this guy/girl for the best part of a decade, but I simply feel little or nothing for them compared to my other 'real' friends". Once you've figured out someone is a psychopath, continue to be pleasant with them, but cut them out of your life as thoroughly as possible. Even if it is a family member (especially if it is a family member). There may be people when you look back retrospectively, who just lied to your face compulsively, and you will have never known why or what the incentive was. They will most likely be on the spectrum somewhere.

[Elipsis]

(Original post by Aoide)
Agreed. My inability to feel connections makes it fascinating to discuss how others feel. I am very interested by links between morality, emotion and neuroscience.



My perception of love still confuses me. True sociopaths cannot feel any kind of love. I can feel something which I would consider love but I don't think it is like you would feel it, it is definately not a caring feeling (although I would do everything possible to help someone which I "loved"). It's very rare and I can't tell what triggers it. It is almost euphoric and I focus entirely on the sensation rather than the person.

I assume you are aware that psychopathy is a disorder of the amygdala? There is a lot of overlap with borderlines, autism, and NPD. I don't know what dictates the difference in outcomes, it seems like a bit of a roll of the dice. I am highly machiavellian, so I do understand where you're coming from. I score about 20-25 on the Hare checklist, so not high enough to be clinically classified as a psychopath, but straddling from one side to the other somewhat.

Are you talking about love or are you talking about infatuation? I think you are getting a buzz off of the prospect of a new person who poses so much potential for you in so many directions. Psychopathy does generally have bad outcomes for those around the psychopath, but seeing as you likely get a buzz off of fear, I don't doubt you'd go to extensive lengths to help someone you felt you needed. Psychopaths aren't just the most likely people to harm you, they are also the most likely to rescue you from a fire too afterall.

An interesting story that I picked up on one psychopath was as follows:
Our psychopath, let's call him Martin, was woken up by a burglar in the middle of the night. His girlfriend was panicing, he sat there slightly excited at the prospect of this encounter. Getting a real buzz off of this break in his otherwise monotonous life. He walked out into the hall way, and confronted the burglar. In the end he talked the burglar, who was masked, into sitting down at his dinner table with him. He spent about an hour drinking beers with the burglar, then explained that he was a postman who could help him an awful lot in his stealing enterprises given his access to post and knowing when people were on holiday. The burglar, now slightly pished, became excited at this prospect too. Martin talked the burglar out of his home address, name and phone number. Explained to the burglar that he would contact him tomorrow, and that he was more than welcome to keep his laptop because he was so minted he didn't care. The burglar left, not believing his luck. The next day Martin rang the police and sent them straight to the address.

Do you also engage in substance abuse much? I have done a lot of ecstasy with my psychopathic ex-business partner, and he simply didn't get half of what ecstasy is about.

[A Cat]

(Original post by Elipsis)
I seem to naturally attract them because I driven, lack a reasonable amount of emotion (I am almost an unhealthy narcissist, but not quite), and used to see their characteristics as desirable in business. They tend to avoid each other, but they latch onto me horrendously. Think of it like the rat climbing on the ox in the Chinese proverb to do with years.

My former business partner was psychopathic. He ticked off just about every single thing on the Hare checklist at a level of 2, apart from wetting the bed which I have no idea about. He got into a lot of trouble as a youth, but his rich father bought him largely out of that. I thought 'excellent, i've got someone on my side who will get stuck in and we'll get a good business going here'. Toward's the seperation phase he become more and more unrealiable. He would disappear for upto a week at a time, he wouldn't transfer money to me or suppliers on time purely to **** with our heads and wind us up to judge the reaction, and in the end he stole every last penny I owned. He is now on the verge of going to prison for his involvement in various things it would be unwise to write about on the internet. He totally screwed his girlfriend of years over, who despite us making an awful lot of money, he had been living off like a cancer - she paid the majority of the rent, bought most of the food, and paid the bills.

Once you've known a few it gets really easy to spot them. Their reactions are just wrong to almost everything. They have zero sense of humour, but they attempt to fake it constantly. They won't make jokes, but they feel the need to pretend they found what you just said funny. They don't refer to the past very much, and when they do there is no mention of how they felt unless it is something they heard someone else say and they felt it sounded poetic and worth repeating. One psychopath I knew growing up came to my school for undefined reasons. I knew he'd been expelled from his previous school, but only later did I find out he had beaten another kid down hard and felt no remorse whatsoever for it. He would lie constantly, and I mean constantly, even when there was no discernable benefit to him. Almost as if it was practise. He would torture animals, but that stopped once I expressed my distaste to him verbally - he had no idea from looking at my facial expressions that he disgusted me. He would promise to do things, like turn up somewhere or something similar, and he would just no show and switch his phone off.

Another thing they make sure to do is talk to people as an individual, one on one. They do not fair well in group atmospheres, where they regularly trip themselves up with their previous lies to group members on a 1 to 1 basis. Because they don't care they will show little remorse if any, because they probably just totally forgot they'd previously lied to you about it. When questioned they will be totally blank like a mannequin in a shop window.

They won't admit they're a psychopath unless it feeds into their inflated ego, or they derive some benefit from it. That's why psychopaths in prison are so happy to play along and meet psychiatrists, simply to relieve the ever present boredom they feel. If you suspect someone is a psychopath, you will probably feel like after spending a lot of time with them they just don't "click" like your other friends. You'll think "i've known this guy/girl for the best part of a decade, but I simply feel little or nothing for them compared to my other 'real' friends". Once you've figured out someone is a psychopath, continue to be pleasant with them, but cut them out of your life as thoroughly as possible. Even if it is a family member (especially if it is a family member). There may be people when you look back retrospectively, who just lied to your face compulsively, and you will have never known why or what the incentive was. They will most likely be on the spectrum somewhere.

Great post They really are so opposite to humans it's unreal. They are responsible for all of the outrageous **** that goes on in this planet.

[Elipsis]

(Original post by Aoide)
It is very hard to explain but the secon paragraph is true. You are correct in that I wouldn't care if a relationship breaks down but I have no desire for that either. AS I said I don't have the constant desire for power and objects common in psychopaths so I don't feel the need to constantly take. My friends being interesting is enough of a reason, I don't feel the need to take anything else- not because I think I shouldn't but because I am content with the situation. Once a relationship become useless I won't put any effort into it but I don't see any point in actively destroying it.

You of course don't need to fill every single box of the checklist in order to be a psychopath, who knows, maybe you're not? I have little idea why I would waste my time on someone who was of no use to me, or for that matter wasn't interesting or amusing to me either, and i'm not a psychopath.

Do you have any taste in music/film/art other than to show the outside world how 'normal' you are? Most psychopaths I have known have had very little interest in TV. They did read because it made them seem clever and sophisticated though. They didn't really enjoy anything humourous, and they weren't into any bands or anything like that.

[Elipsis]

(Original post by Samrout)
Great post They really are so opposite to humans it's unreal. They are responsible for all of the outrageous **** that goes on in this planet.

Have you read Inside the Madness Industry? It's a pretty awesome book that has helped my understanding greatly. Did you also know that you can be trained by Robert Hare for about £500 for an entire weekend with him? I am planning on going on the course in the very near future. I am aware it might get me killed, but I plan on setting up a company which offers screening to large businesses and polticians. That way we can begin to stop that tiny 1% of people from inflicting quite as much damage on the world around us.

Have you noticed any particular celebrities are psychopaths? I would probably say with 99.9% certainty that Courtney Love is a psychopath. I strongly suspect George Bush Jr was up there (not because i'm an anti-war cry baby or anything, from observing him).

The thing that I find most amazing about psychopaths is how utterly uncharming they are after you have associated with a few of them for a reasonably long period of time. They are so false it is unbelievable.

[zaliack]

Although I do disagree with self-diagnosing, if anyone wants to see the "traits" of a psychopath, these are them:

• glib and superficial charm
• grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
• need for stimulation
• pathological lying
• cunning and manipulativeness
• lack of remorse or guilt
• shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
• callousness and lack of empathy
• parasitic lifestyle
• poor behavioral controls
• sexual promiscuity
• early behavior problems
• lack of realistic long-term goals
• impulsivity
• irresponsibility
• failure to accept responsibility for own actions
• many short-term marital relationships
• juvenile delinquency
• revocation of conditional release
• criminal versatility

Mark yourself (or someone else) with either 0, 1 or 2 depending on how much it applies to your, and then add it up. "Normal" people score about 5, criminals score about 22, and a diagnosis for psychopathy requires 30.


Read more: Hare Psychopathy Checklist - define, person, people, used, personality, score, traits, Definition, Purpose http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv...#ixzz21RrGn9Pm