[*Corinna*]

(Original post by VENIVIDIVICI)
Really? I find that hard to believe!

In terms of world university rankings (not that I pay any attention to them), ICL and UCL are well-placed and well respected academic & research institutions.

Also, there's a PI I know who's American who worked at UCLA and MIT and he definitely knows about ICL and UCL and told me that with a MRes from ICL (for which I hold an offer), I'd be very well placed to compete for funded PhD's a year from now.

Unfortunately this is true... I come from Greece and I swear for most people a London uni is prestigious for sure but there is no differentiation between UCL and South bank. I am sure that some people (probably those who studied abroad) will know the difference but generally the public just hears London and thinks "ok, good". Then of course Oxford and Cambridge are the "big names" but the difference between them and say UCL and LSE or imperial is disproportionately big. Most people would be much more impressed by the name of Oxford than UCL which to them is just another London uni. Even Cambridge is considered lower ranked than Oxford. I've had quite a lot of people asking me why I'm leaving Oxford (where I did my masters) to go to Cambridge for my PhD and the answer "cause I have full funding from Cambridge" does not seem like a good one for most. They see it as a step down...it pisses me off

[*Corinna*]

(Original post by Cora Lindsay)
That's just such crap. Anyone with any awareness of scientific research will have heard of these institutions. He's beginning to sound like a stereotypical Cambridge ****

I agree with you, people should know but not everyone does. And brand name recognition is unfortunately more important than other more substantial things like research quality, name of supervisor etc. it also matters what the op wants to do afterwards. If he wants to stay in academia then of course UCL will be recognized but if he wants to work at a company or something then the name of Cambridge will be more important than a scholarship from UCL. Most people outside academia don't even care about scholarships to be honest...

[to_ni]

(Original post by Ghost6)
If you are sure you want to do a PhD, and think you have been "taught" enough and don't want/need a master's, then go for the PhD, because the best way to prepare for a PhD is to do a PhD.

Now a "free" master's from Cambridge is an excellent option too, and if this is a one-year program, then essentially the cost is only that of "maintenance", which amounts to roughly £8,500 according to university figures, and colleges often give partial grants for cases like the present one (which is essentially mine too). If you are still unsure about a PhD, or the particular PhD you have been offered at UCL, then the Cambridge master's will definitely strengthen your profile and it is quite safe to say that you will have more funded PhD offers next year.

Yes it´s a one year lasting programme so the maintenance is quite affordable. To be honest I already learned about most of the stuff (expect the courses offered by the Judge Business School, because its an Enterprise course and some chemistry stuff) in the course during my Master´s back home in Switzerland. And I really want to do a PhD. However, I am afraid that I miss out on a very big chance when declining the fees-only scholarship (sponsored by a company, internships !!)) for the Mphil in Cambridge. I feel like it won´t hurt my chances to acquire funding next year but unfortunately there´s no guarantee.

Regards

[Long Time Coming]

Go to Cambridge, listen to your supervisor.

[to_ni]

(Original post by *Corinna*)
I agree with you, people should know but not everyone does. And brand name recognition is unfortunately more important than other more substantial things like research quality, name of supervisor etc. it also matters what the op wants to do afterwards. If he wants to stay in academia then of course UCL will be recognized but if he wants to work at a company or something then the name of Cambridge will be more important than a scholarship from UCL. Most people outside academia don't even care about scholarships to be honest...

That´s exactly what I am afraid of!!! I am not sure if I want to stay in academia afterwards because I had some bad experience during my Master´s time in Switzerland so atm I am considering a career as industrial researcher. Nonetheless, I want to do a PhD because in Switzerland you need one for industry as well.

Regards

[to_ni]

(Original post by gutenberg)
This is by no means definite. I know plenty of people who were on funded Master's in Cambridge who didn't get any PhD funding. There is a lot less money going around unfortunately. I do agree with you though that if the OP is confident that they do want to do a PhD, they should just get on with it, especially as they have the finance in place.

Is that true? I can hardly believe that since it´s a very recognized degree despite the fact that some call it vanity degrees.... Any thoughts on this?

[to_ni]

(Original post by VENIVIDIVICI)
Really? I find that hard to believe!

In terms of world university rankings (not that I pay any attention to them), ICL and UCL are well-placed and well respected academic & research institutions.

Also, there's a PI I know who's American who worked at UCLA and MIT and he definitely knows about ICL and UCL and told me that with a MRes from ICL (for which I hold an offer), I'd be very well placed to compete for funded PhD's a year from now.

I know it´s kind of obscure but the mentioned supervisor was a student at Imperial before doing his PhD at Cambridge and staying there from then on.
THat´s what makes me think like it could be the, in fact, ugly truth.

That´s what makes it hard for me not to do this additional year at Cambridge.

like Corinna said the name seems to count.... unfortunately!!!

[GreenLantern1]

(Original post by to_ni)
Hey guys,

I talked to my proposed supervisor at Cam in the interim and he said that, although it´s not possible to defer my offer for one academy year, he would definitely look at my application favorably in the next year as well. Moreover, he said an additional Masters is definitely good, especially with the address of Cambridge on it. I really feel like he thinks that Cambridge will offer me far more doors than UCL. As I already mentioned he told me that outside the UK Imperial as well as UCL seem to have no value because nobody knows the name. Like...You did your PhD at UCL? Isn´t that the University in the US (UCLA). Next, he told me that if I want to work in industry as an industrial researcher, they would look favorably at an Cambridge graduate. Even if it´s only a Master´s from CAM and the PhD lets say from Germany. At the end of the day I have a degree from Cam. That´s exactly what he told me....

What do you guys think?

With the professor telling me such stuff I am really afraid that I will miss out a great chance if I am not going to Cambridge. I feel torn.
Regards,

toni

Go Cmabirdge my friend! Sounds like they want you so if you do well I wouldn't be surprised if you were successful to continue there and do a PhD there.

[UnderPost]

Depends what you want to do. If you want to go into academia then almost certainly you need a PhD to be able to get a decent job. If not, then stick to the Masters.

I also warn people who consider PhDs that it is a huge risk. It is 3-4yrs of your life where you will work mostly alone (although science based PhDs are better than social sciences/arts on this). You will work 50hrs a day and will need to be disciplined in what you do. More importantly, you need to have a passion for what you are doing otherwise it is a very long time. You also have to remember that for 3-4yrs you will not be able to apply for jobs even if the 'ideal' one comes up. The one final bad part with a PhD is what if a 'solution' is found to whatever you are writing about, or it is no longer a problem- I've met some people this has happened to and it is very disheartening writing about something most won't care about and nobody will refer to it.

Whereas with Masters it is a year. If you do it by research you can have a decent amount of time looking into what you like. And then if you see you love it- you can carry on and do a PhD. A Masters is also less work than a PhD so you'll have a social life and look out for any jobs. All the opps and facilities available to a PhD students are also usually available to a Masters student (except for perhaps and PhD common room).

In terms of UCL v Cambridge- with postgrad work, the rankings of the Uni doesn't really matter. In particular with PhD, whether you do it in a post1992 Uni or an ancient Uni it doesn't really matter.

[VENIVIDIVICI]

Did he ever work outside the UK (postdoc, etc.)? How would he really know from personal experience?

Don't get me wrong, I applied to Cambridge recently and got declined, but am now really chuffed at getting a place on a course that's in-demand and with a waiting-list at ICL. If I had to choose between doing a self-funded master's at Cambridge or being given a fully funded PhD at UCL or ICL, I would jump for the latter. With funding cuts and fierce competition, I'd go with the funded option as there's no gaurentee that funding may be available or being able to successfully compete a year later.

That's just me. Go to Cambridge if that's really what you want to do...there's nothing wrong with that.

[gutenberg]

(Original post by to_ni)
Is that true? I can hardly believe that since it´s a very recognized degree despite the fact that some call it vanity degrees.... Any thoughts on this?

Unfortunately it is; several friends in several different disciplines failed to secure funding for their PhDs at Cambridge for next year, despite being funded for their Master's. It's all to do with the strength of the field in any particular year, which is something you can't really control - hence my thinking that if you got the funding this year you should take it, as there are no guarantees for the next one!

I accept people's points about relative prestige and so on, so it's a tough one: I guess I've just been conditioned to focus on the funding!

[*Corinna*]

(Original post by to_ni)
That´s exactly what I am afraid of!!! I am not sure if I want to stay in academia afterwards because I had some bad experience during my Master´s time in Switzerland so atm I am considering a career as industrial researcher. Nonetheless, I want to do a PhD because in Switzerland you need one for industry as well.

Regards

Would you be ale to fund a PhD from Cambridge in the hypothetical situation that you did your masters there and then applied for PhD but didn't get funding?
If you turn down the PhD from UCL the possible outcomes are these:
1. You finish your masters and manage to secure funding from either Oxford or Cambridge for your PhD so no harm done
2. You do your masters at Cambridge but don't manage to secure funding for your PhD so you either self fund or don't do one
3. You manage to secure funding for your PhD but not from Oxbridge

Would you be Ok with option No3? You'd still have Cambridge in your CV and a PhD from a less well known uni. Option No2 is of course the worst one and it's not that unlikely to happen. However, if you apply to many unis for your PhD then you have a decent chance to get funding from somewhere, even if it's not your top choice.
You have to decide whether the name of Cambridge is worth the risk of not doing a PhD. No one can tell you that a scholarship from cam for your masters guarantees one for your PhD. I had funding from Oxford for my masters but didn't get anything for my PhD. But admittedly it does put you in a good position. I managed to secure partial funding from a London uni and full funding from Cambridge and I believe my previous funding from Oxford was a massive help in securing that.

[py0alb]

This is a complete non issue. Institutional prestige is utterly meaningless at postgraduate level, the reputation and contacts of your PhD supervisor are far more relevant. I know several people who did their undergrad at Oxbridge and then jumped at the chance to move to a different university for their PhD because there were better research prospects with young up-and-coming professors doing groundbreaking research away from the claustrophobic straightjacket of Oxbridge.

[*Corinna*]

(Original post by py0alb)
This is a complete non issue. Institutional prestige is utterly meaningless at postgraduate level, the reputation and contacts of your PhD supervisor are far more relevant. I know several people who did their undergrad at Oxbridge and then jumped at the chance to move to a different university for their PhD because there were better research prospects with young up-and-coming professors doing groundbreaking research away from the claustrophobic straightjacket of Oxbridge.

It's not a non issue if you don't want to stay in academia though.

[Cora Lindsay]

(Original post by *Corinna*)
It's not a non issue if you don't want to stay in academia though.

In technical areas of industry, people will be well aware which supervisors and groups are doing good work, wherever they are. If you really change direction and go into something non-technical, Cambridge could give you an edge, though I am not convinced it would be a massive one over UCL.

[py0alb]

(Original post by *Corinna*)
It's not a non issue if you don't want to stay in academia though.

There is no point in doing a physics PhD if you don't intend to take a highly technical job, and the kind of people who interview you for highly technical jobs are not stupid. They will not go "OMG Cambridge!!! Hire dis guy, he must be a jenious" They will almost certainly have PhDs themselves and therefore understand that PhDs from Cambridge are no better than PhDs from any other reputable physics department.

[gutenberg]

(Original post by to_ni)
That´s exactly what I am afraid of!!! I am not sure if I want to stay in academia afterwards because I had some bad experience during my Master´s time in Switzerland so atm I am considering a career as industrial researcher. Nonetheless, I want to do a PhD because in Switzerland you need one for industry as well.

Regards

Are you thinking of staying in the UK to work after you've finished?

EDIT: Sorry, I've just noticed the second part of that post! So you'd be thinking of going back to Switzerland when you're done?

[to_ni]

Hey guys thanks for all your thoughts! I will reply as soon as I am back from work. Someone has to pay my bills ...

But no atm I plan to move to Germany because I have a girlfriend there and she has a great job there

My main idea is to aim for a technical management position after doing my PhD.... Not quite sure yet tough

I have to go... Sry

[u0b]

Difficult choice. Personally, I would choose UCL.

Cambridge would be an expensive option for me. Having said that, you would have the DR status of a PhD, and London is more exciting than Cambridge.

But either way both are excellent universities.

Good luck.

(Original post by to_ni)
Hallo!

I am new here and really need your honest opinion. I am a recent graduate from Switzerland and was wondering about the following...

Do you think it´s dumb to turn down a fully funded PhD at UCL for a fees-only funded Master at Cambridge. I am coming from a science related field (Physics/Chemistry).

I would really appreciate your help. BTW what would you choose to do?

Regards toni

[to_ni]

(Original post by gutenberg)
Unfortunately it is; several friends in several different disciplines failed to secure funding for their PhDs at Cambridge for next year, despite being funded for their Master's. It's all to do with the strength of the field in any particular year, which is something you can't really control - hence my thinking that if you got the funding this year you should take it, as there are no guarantees for the next one!

I accept people's points about relative prestige and so on, so it's a tough one: I guess I've just been conditioned to focus on the funding!

May I ask whether you´re at Cambridge at the moment. It seems like you know many people at Cam doing a Master´s and thus, I was wondering whether you´re a Cam student as well.

Do you think that if I am aiming for a position as a technical manager or something like that I will need a PhD? In Switzerland almost all board managers etc. have one.

Regards