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Why are horses used in riots?

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Without wanting to be a party pooper... can we knock the spam on the head, please?
Reply 101
It's just intimidation plus a lack of accountability.

If a horse or a police dog hurts someone, the officer is never going to get prosecuted as if the officer had done the hurt themselves, even though they should.
Reply 102
Original post by thunder_chunky
That joke wasn't very stable.


:adore:
Original post by Mad Vlad
It's a flexible asset. It has speed and agility. It's scary being on the receiving end of it.

Riot vans are slow and inflexible. You also can't charge riot lines with vans because of health and safety. Riot vans are also perfect targets for petrol bombs and other debris - they're seen as legitimate targets by rioters as their occupants are considered to be "safe from harm", whereas a horse is not perceived as a legitimate target for such behaviour.

Having read your posts in this thread, I think you're being too sentimental - these are working animals that are highly trained and looked after.


Yes they are working animals however there are different types of work, some putting their lives at risk others not, there is a difference between mentally stimulating the animal so it enjoys it's life than being in a dangerous riot situation.
Not a case of being sentimental it's about being an animal lover


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Original post by Loucornall
Yes they are working animals however there are different types of work, some putting their lives at risk others not, there is a difference between mentally stimulating the animal so it enjoys it's life than being in a dangerous riot situation.
Not a case of being sentimental it's about being an animal lover


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Are you one of these Animals >= Humans folks?

I'm sorry, but it's a proven tool that helps break up riots and reduces the risk of injury to police officers on the ground. It's a reasonable use of the animal.
Original post by Mad Vlad
Without wanting to be a party pooper... can we knock the spam on the head, please?


easier to do from on top of a horse.
Original post by Dirac Delta Function
easier to do from on top of a horse.


This is true. My riot stick ban hammer is itching to be used, however... I'd rather not have to use it here.
Original post by Mad Vlad
Are you one of these Animals >= Humans folks?

I'm sorry, but it's a proven tool that helps break up riots and reduces the risk of injury to police officers on the ground. It's a reasonable use of the animal.


I'm someone who has had horses her whole life and who before becoming a mother volunteered weekly at a local animal sanctuary
Again as I said the officer chooses to do that job and knows fully the risks they are taking the horse is forced into the situation
How can you justify that the animals life is more expendable than a van?


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Original post by Loucornall
I'm someone who has had horses her whole life and who before becoming a mother volunteered weekly at a local animal sanctuary
Again as I said the officer chooses to do that job and knows fully the risks they are taking the horse is forced into the situation
How can you justify that the animals life is more expendable than a van?


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Because a van is not as good as a horse in this situation. If the two were equally capable, then obviously the van should be used, but they're not. The horse is a superior tool and thus its use is justified.

It is better to risk injury to a horse than to a police officer. This idea of forcing the animal into that situation is opening up a whole semantic argument about intelligence of animals. We've used animals for millennia to do our bidding. You ride horses for pleasure - same difference; you're enslaving the animal to do what you want it to do.

Please.

I don't think either of us want to start debating this.
Original post by Mad Vlad
Because a van is not as good as a horse in this situation. If the two were equally capable, then obviously the van should be used, but they're not. The horse is a superior tool and thus its use is justified.

It is better to risk injury to a horse than to a police officer. This idea of forcing the animal into that situation is opening up a whole semantic argument about intelligence of animals. We've used animals for millennia to do our bidding. You ride horses for pleasure - same difference; you're enslaving the animal to do what you want it to do.

Please.

I don't think either of us want to start debating this.


Your missing my point, I have said they are working animals and in most cases enjoy it, there is still a difference between schooling a horse as there is putting it in danger when we have the technology to not need to. Police horses are used For intimidation and that has come from friends and family ranging from sergeants to comm's operators. I also don't agree with horse racing either but that's another matter


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Anyway I'm off to bed I've got work in the morning!


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Original post by Loucornall
Your missing my point, I have said they are working animals and in most cases enjoy it, there is still a difference between schooling a horse as there is putting it in danger when we have the technology to not need to. Police horses are used For intimidation and that has come from friends and family ranging from sergeants to comm's operators. I also don't agree with horse racing either but that's another matter


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I don't think I have. The horse is put in danger as a tool to disrupt riots through intimidation and to reduce the risk to police officers on the ground. There are very few comparable technology-based tools that are at the Police's disposal, certainly none that are as effective or legal. The justification of it being such an effective tool outweighs the argument against it.

I too dislike competitive horse racing.
Original post by glelin96
Would it? Horses easily get 'spooked' when they are in the wrong situation, when they get 'spooked' they buck, when they buck, they land on people. I would presume that this would be seen as unpredictability, much the same as a dog.


Police horses are *so* well trained, they're trained to be the most stable, trusting and alert horses out there. Yes accidents happen but horses in riot situations will be steadfast and listening to just their rider making them essentially a very trustworthy tank that you can see better from.

Not to mention that if you drive a riot van over someone, you get banged up in jail for dangerous driving/manslaughter/whatever you get for running someone over. If you ride your horse at someone I'm fairly certain there's no penalty.

As a fellow rider I hate seeing them used but they do play a vital role in our countries police force and it's a shame that the sections are largely being disbanded.
Reply 113
Original post by glelin96
Well no it doesn't but whatever. Maybe they are, but what relevance does that have to the case? By using your logic a Cashier at Asda that reports their manager for sexual-harassment should be arrested because 'A cashier is just meant to cashier, not report'? That argument is totally invalid!


You can't equate a cashier to a horse or a dog.
Reply 114
Original post by Hopple
You can't equate a cashier to a horse or a dog.


Yes you can, that is the logic you are using so surely you can apply it to anything.
Reply 115
Original post by Mad Vlad
It's a flexible asset. It has speed and agility. It's scary being on the receiving end of it.

Riot vans are slow and inflexible. You also can't charge riot lines with vans because of health and safety. Riot vans are also perfect targets for petrol bombs and other debris - they're seen as legitimate targets by rioters as their occupants are considered to be "safe from harm", whereas a horse is not perceived as a legitimate target for such behaviour.

Having read your posts in this thread, I think you're being too sentimental - these are working animals that are highly trained and looked after.


Yes, I understand I may be being too sentimental. I just believe that however long humans may have used animals for tools, using them as a tool when you're putting their lives in danger is wrong.

I understand also, that if it comes down to it, the life of the police officer is ultimately the most important thing in the situation, so I can see your argument. You have actually backed up your opinion with a reason, unlike others that just sporadically spouting opinions with no reasons for them. For that, I thank you. :smile:
Reply 116
Original post by kiss_me_now9
Police horses are *so* well trained, they're trained to be the most stable, trusting and alert horses out there. Yes accidents happen but horses in riot situations will be steadfast and listening to just their rider making them essentially a very trustworthy tank that you can see better from.

Not to mention that if you drive a riot van over someone, you get banged up in jail for dangerous driving/manslaughter/whatever you get for running someone over. If you ride your horse at someone I'm fairly certain there's no penalty.

As a fellow rider I hate seeing them used but they do play a vital role in our countries police force and it's a shame that the sections are largely being disbanded.


I know that they are very well trained. As a fellow rider, you may understand that when you ride a horse that isn't yours, you don't feel safe, the horse picks up on this and is on edge. Even the best horse in the world is unpredictable in the respect of getting spooked, if the rider is nervous, the horse is nervous, when something then occurs to spook the horse, it bucks.

I can understand that argument, but surely that law should be changed? What is the most likely injury if you get ran over by a van at a low speed, a broken rib, a broken arm? What about being trampled by a horse? Death?
Reply 117
Would you like to stand next to a panicked horse? That way you'll understand
Reply 118
Original post by glelin96
Yes you can, that is the logic you are using so surely you can apply it to anything.


No, a person is a person. The police treat animals like objects, and there is a difference between an object that might fall on someone and hurt them (i.e. anything heavy/hard/sharp) and an object that seeks out people and hurts them.
Original post by glelin96
Just a general question, why are horses used in riots? I have never really understood it.


Someone watched Casualty!

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