[Okashira]

As it pertains to my God, although I imagine it should pertain to any god, believing He exists means absolutely nothing. Now, for anyone who have read my posts in the past, I believe there is evidence for His existence. Evidence worth looking into (and I believe it is the job of believers to look into them thoroughly and present them for scrutiny), and more evidence will come about. Yet with all that said, even if you know God exists, knowing He exists does nothing for you.

It doesn't make you a holier person. It doesn't change the world. Some of the most evil persons in history believed God exists, and they still went on to do heinous acts. The Bible puts it this way. If you believe God exists, you have something in common with a demon. So for any person who knows God exists, if that is the extent of your relationship with God, it's no better than a demon's relationship with Him. So this is just something I wanted to get straight. I've heard many people's view of faith is just believing God exists. That people will get sent to Hell because they didn't believe He exists. That view is entirely wrong, yet sadly it seems to be the majority view. Even among Christians.

[Flash7]

(Original post by Okashira)
As it pertains to my God, although I imagine it should pertain to any god, believing He exists means absolutely nothing. Now, for anyone who have read my posts in the past, I believe there is evidence for His existence. Evidence worth looking into (and I believe it is the job of believers to look into them thoroughly and present them for scrutiny), and more evidence will come about. Yet with all that said, even if you know God exists, knowing He exists does nothing for you.

It doesn't make you a holier person. It doesn't change the world. Some of the most evil persons in history believed God exists, and they still went on to do heinous acts. The Bible puts it this way. If you believe God exists, you have something in common with a demon. So for any person who knows God exists, if that is the extent of your relationship with God, it's no better than a demon's relationship with Him. So this is just something I wanted to get straight. I've heard many people's view of faith is just believing God exists. That people will get sent to Hell because they didn't believe He exists. That view is entirely wrong, yet sadly it seems to be the majority view. Even among Christians.

Please clarify what you mean by your last three sentences. I find this interesting.

[Okashira]

(Original post by Flash7)
Please clarify what you mean by your last three sentences. I find this interesting.

Well, most Christians have the wrong idea about what faith means. Most think faith itself means believing God exists. We can see that when people think about religion. If you believe God exists, you will go to Heaven. This is what I see when discussing with many on this forum, that believing He exists is key to everything.

The truth is even if I know God exists, that He physically appeared before the world, knowing He exists in and of itself means nothing. Christians mix in Jesus and Him dying for our sins, but I can see the overall feeling is believing God exists is the thing that makes all the difference.

[Cephalus]

Yes, even the devil believes in God. I hardly think he will make it to heaven. One need absolute faith in Jesus Christ

[Flash7]

Thanks for clarifying. It would appear obvious that if you believe in the Bible, that it takes more than just a belief in God's existence to enter heaven and be a follower of Christ. Does the Bible not warn against being luke warm?

What are your thoughts on:
A) Those who do not believe;
B) Those who have not heard of God's message?

[brunettej]

It does not make you a holier person but neither does it make you less holy. Maybe we should just work on being more compassionate and understanding people?

[Insanity514]

I agree. I think it's a problem with a large number of believers of any faith.

[TurboCretin]

(Original post by brunettej)
It does not make you a holier person but neither does it make you less holy. Maybe we should just work on being more compassionate and understanding people?

This.

As Jesus once said, "Guys, just stop being such dicks to each other."

[brunettej]

(Original post by TurboCretin)
This.

As Jesus once said, "Guys, just stop being such dicks to each other."

LOL. I agree.

[Okashira]

(Original post by Flash7)
Thanks for clarifying. It would appear obvious that if you believe in the Bible, that it takes more than just a belief in God's existence to enter heaven and be a follower of Christ. Does the Bible not warn against being luke warm?

What are your thoughts on:
A) Those who do not believe;
B) Those who have not heard of God's message?

On A), I believe there are a lot of people who really don't know God exists. When I say God, I mean Yahweh. There are a lot of religions and gods out there, and people wonder which one is true. Are any of them true? Agnostics are honest people, and anyone who knows God exist should have a solid reason. Then there are those who say no God or gods exist. That is a definite statement. I don't think there many who say this in the definite, but say it for lack of evidence or lack of perceivable evidence. There's only so much we can understand with our understanding. I believe as more knowledge develops, there will be more evidence that show God does exist.

On B), for those who have not heard of God or His message, God will judge them based on what they know. Have they been merciful to others? If so, God will be merciful to them. We as Christians know the full message, and so we ought to show the most mercy out of everyone in this world. With that said, if for instance a person dies not knowing God or His message to have a chance to receive it, he still will have to receive Jesus as his Lord and Savior. Another example is a child dying. God will receive the child, but at some point once the child understands, he will have to receive Jesus like we who have received Him.

[Alkamar]

Look, it's simple. If anything like that really existed, it wouldn't be a god, but a mere pretender. Simply because a god cannot be a human being. We shall assume this to be necessarily true otherwise it would consequently imply that humans could eventually rise to supernatural. I mean, it's ridicolous to believe that a God has specific needs just like any other human and that, at the same time, he would be unable to fulfil them. This is my opinion though, free to think otherwise.

[Ignoramus]

(Original post by Okashira)
Well, most Christians have the wrong idea about what faith means. Most think faith itself means believing God exists. We can see that when people think about religion. If you believe God exists, you will go to Heaven. This is what I see when discussing with many on this forum, that believing He exists is key to everything.

The truth is even if I know God exists, that He physically appeared before the world, knowing He exists in and of itself means nothing. Christians mix in Jesus and Him dying for our sins, but I can see the overall feeling is believing God exists is the thing that makes all the difference.

I agree.

[Okashira]

(Original post by Alkamar)
Look, it's simple. If anything like that really existed, it wouldn't be a god, but a mere pretender. Simply because a god cannot be a human being. We shall assume this to be necessarily true otherwise it would consequently imply that humans could eventually rise to supernatural. I mean, it's ridicolous to believe that a God has specific needs just like any other human and that, at the same time, he would be unable to fulfil them. This is my opinion though, free to think otherwise.

I agree if God needed anything He wouldn't be God at all. Yet that doesn't describe the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible fights to have relationship with us. To get us to see that we need Him.

[Swanbow]

Some people are simply theists. You can believe in God without having religion. From a Christian perspective though I can understand why they might think that it is just as useless as being an atheist.

[Dmon1Unlimited]

(Original post by brunettej)
It does not make you a holier person but neither does it make you less holy. Maybe we should just work on being more compassionate and understanding people?

achieve this and most of the dumb ass crap that goes on in the world will cease to exist. most of the suffering that goes on by pricks will cease to exist...

more people need to learn to be more considerate of others....

[foodnom]

these threads are getting ridiculous now. Just accept the fact that people have different beliefs and let them get on with it.

[Dmon1Unlimited]

(Original post by Okashira)
As it pertains to my God, although I imagine it should pertain to any god, believing He exists means absolutely nothing. Now, for anyone who have read my posts in the past, I believe there is evidence for His existence. Evidence worth looking into (and I believe it is the job of believers to look into them thoroughly and present them for scrutiny), and more evidence will come about. Yet with all that said, even if you know God exists, knowing He exists does nothing for you.

It doesn't make you a holier person. It doesn't change the world. Some of the most evil persons in history believed God exists, and they still went on to do heinous acts. The Bible puts it this way. If you believe God exists, you have something in common with a demon. So for any person who knows God exists, if that is the extent of your relationship with God, it's no better than a demon's relationship with Him. So this is just something I wanted to get straight. I've heard many people's view of faith is just believing God exists. That people will get sent to Hell because they didn't believe He exists. That view is entirely wrong, yet sadly it seems to be the majority view. Even among Christians.

assuming god exists, this post makes good reason why being atheist shouldnt matter. as you say, believing in god, shouldnt do anything, it wont change the world. being a good person however, while it may not change the world, is capable of change.

if god exists, and he is indeed capable of judging whether you should go to hell or not, he should judge based on merits not whether people believe in him...

[Lilio Candidior]

(Original post by Okashira)
As it pertains to my God, although I imagine it should pertain to any god, believing He exists means absolutely nothing. Now, for anyone who have read my posts in the past, I believe there is evidence for His existence. Evidence worth looking into (and I believe it is the job of believers to look into them thoroughly and present them for scrutiny), and more evidence will come about. Yet with all that said, even if you know God exists, knowing He exists does nothing for you.

It doesn't make you a holier person. It doesn't change the world. Some of the most evil persons in history believed God exists, and they still went on to do heinous acts. The Bible puts it this way. If you believe God exists, you have something in common with a demon. So for any person who knows God exists, if that is the extent of your relationship with God, it's no better than a demon's relationship with Him. So this is just something I wanted to get straight. I've heard many people's view of faith is just believing God exists. That people will get sent to Hell because they didn't believe He exists. That view is entirely wrong, yet sadly it seems to be the majority view. Even among Christians.

Okashira, you say that believing in God doesn't make a person holy. Perhaps, but if belief doesn't make you holy, then faith surely does. For what is the alternative? Are we made holy by the amount of prayer that we do? Are we made holy by the words that we use, or the tone of our voice? Are we made holy by making people comfortable with our politeness? Is it that which makes us holy? Are we made holy by the amount of money we donate to charity? If so, then at what percentage of income is it that is the mark of holiness? 20%? 30%? 100%? Is it our own fallible ideas of virtue that make us holy? What is it?

Holiness is never something that we humans can do on our own. Only God is holy, and whatever is marked by him is made holy by him. We know that we have a God who in baptism has called us by name and marked us for himself, carving out faith into our hearts of stone. The faith that God creates in us by grace is what makes us holy.

Sure, faith is not about ticking in the right answers in the multiple-choice test of life. Faith is not about agreeing to claims of fact. Faith is far rawer and deeper and messier than that. Faith is like the hart that longs for streams of life-giving water. Faith is like a hunger and a thirst, a craving for that which can fill us. Faith is the emptiness of our being that needs to be filled by God. Faith is the poverty of the heart, which leaves room for God to enter. Faith is the burning longing that the bride has for the bridegroom on their wedding night. Faith is the trembling of the soul before emptiness, desiring contact at any price.

[Okashira]

(Original post by Dmon1Unlimited)
assuming god exists, this post makes good reason why being atheist shouldnt matter. as you say, believing in god, shouldnt do anything, it wont change the world. being a good person however, while it may not change the world, is capable of change.

if god exists, and he is indeed capable of judging whether you should go to hell or not, he should judge based on merits not whether people believe in him...

Judging based on merits wouldn't be fair because not everyone are in position to do a lot of good. There are a lot of kids who are taught evil is good. Besides even we who do good things, also do bad things as well. A lot of good can be wiped out by one bad act. Trust can be lost by just one bad move. All in all, no one is good enough to meet God's standards.

The only requirement to enter God's house, is His invitation. In this light, everyone is equal and everyone has a chance at Heaven. All we have to do is receive.

[Dmon1Unlimited]

(Original post by Okashira)
Judging based on merits wouldn't be fair because not everyone are in position to do a lot of good. There are a lot of kids who are taught evil is good. Besides even we who do good things, also do bad things as well. A lot of good can be wiped out by one bad act. Trust can be lost by just one bad move. All in all, no one is good enough to meet God's standards.

The only requirement to enter God's house, is His invitation. In this light, everyone is equal and everyone has a chance at Heaven. All we have to do is receive.

Regarding being taught evil, I do not think it is as black and white as teaching a kid to be evil=be evil for the rest of his life, thinking its good. Even so, it can be taken into consideration.

While not everyone can be 100% good, does that matter? Your net worth can be considered I.e. does your good deeds more than make up for you being a prat? If he does exist, I hardly think god will be a person who will act like a immature teenage girl when you do something wrong. If he exists, is it not fair to say if he created us then he knows we are not perfect?

If he exists, I do believe it should be based on what you are worth as a person. To take into consideration everything you have done, good and bad, factor in the circumstances etc and at the end, come up with a net result.