[Perseveranze]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
Most muslims go "fatwa shopping " when they want to argue something that suits them at the time - thats how islam works - you know this very well yourself Persey The quran is so incomplete and unspecific that islam is more held together by later declared edicts than originally written guidelines.
Equally there are scholars that repsond to public opinion by issueing edicts as and when they feel like - pretty much all muslim countries competing in the olympics have given exemptions to athletes to fasting.

Welcome back from your ban. Keep teaching us more about Islam, especially what Ijma is. You're as clueless about it as you are on history all together.

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
The best excuse not to fast is not the olympics, it is that its unhealthy frankly idiotic peer pressure with origins of ritualistic practice of desert tribes 2 or 3 thousand years ago.

Says the hindu LOL

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
Welcome back from your ban. Keep teaching us more about Islam, especially what Ijma is. You're as clueless about it as you are on history all together.




Says the hindu LOL

hindu? ban? lol you are sounding more confused than usual persey, lightheaded from fasting all day?

[jmlkey]

I'm just gonna point out to everyone who says how unhealthy it is - It isn't.
Humans have essentially evolved to eat in exactly this way. We never used to be able to pop down to the shops to obtain our food. We would be hunting for food in the day, and then eating our catch at night.
Not saying having 3 meals a day is unhealthy, just that fasting, as far as i'm aware, doesn't have ANY negative side effects.

[WayneCorp]

A lot of confused people in this thread who don't know what they're talking about. A lot of my Muslim friends don't fast from time to time (say about once a week in Ramadan) and people openly know.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by jmlkey)
I'm just gonna point out to everyone who says how unhealthy it is - It isn't.
Humans have essentially evolved to eat in exactly this way. We never used to be able to pop down to the shops to obtain our food. We would be hunting for food in the day, and then eating our catch at night.
Not saying having 3 meals a day is unhealthy, just that fasting, as far as i'm aware, doesn't have ANY negative side effects.

not fasting, but pigging out on a days worth of food a few hours before sleeping is defintatly proven way to get fat, as well as maintaining an unhealthy blood sugar balance at in sleep. This is what muslims do during ramadan.

early humans used to burn 5 to 6 times the calories we do today so had no problem eating wahever we caught and not become obese.
your average muslim doesnt go out hunting deer all day then another 3 hours cooking and preparing it. They spend an hour in chicken cottage every night.

[jmlkey]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
not fasting, but pigging out on a days worth of food a few hours before sleeping is defintatly proven way to get fat, as well as maintaining an unhealthy blood sugar balance at in sleep.

Eating before going to bed doesn't contribute to fat gain any more than eating at a different part of the day.
Your body is extremely good at keeping a healthy blood sugar level, during sleep as well.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by jmlkey)
Eating before going to bed doesn't contribute to fat gain any more than eating at a different part of the day.
Your body is extremely good at keeping a healthy blood sugar level, during sleep as well.

dont comment on this topic unless you have some knowledge on it or have read the studies wirtten about it, various have confimred weight gain can be controlled by limiting, in paricular carbohydrate comsumption to 8pm or approx 4 hours before sleep.　fasting in the day time and gorging in the night is the oppossite to our natural cycle, so doing so for 1 month simply for primitive ritual is idiotic, simple as.

bodies blood sugar level is dependant on what and when you have eaten and how much insulin your body has produced　and is prolonged by periods of inactivity( such as sleep)
what are you trying to go on about.

[jmlkey]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
dont comment on this topic unless you have some knowledge on it or have read the studies wirtten about it, various have confimred weight gain can be controlled by limiting, in paricular carbohydrate comsumption to 8pm or approx 4 hours before sleep.　fasting in the day time and gorging in the night is the oppossite to our natural cycle, so doing so for 1 month simply for primitive ritual is idiotic, simple as.

bodies blood sugar level is dependant on what and when you have eaten and how much insulin your body has produced　and is prolonged by periods of inactivity( such as sleep)
what are you trying to go on about.

Well, i'm no professional, but i do take an interest - I have read numerous studies. I'd like to see the ones you referenced. (srs)
I don't believe it's just a "primitive ritual". I'm not religious, but i think when done right, Ramadan can be very beneficial.
I don't understand what you said about blood sugar. Eating before bed does not have a particularly bad effect on it, though.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by jmlkey)
Well, i'm no professional, but i do take an interest - I have read numerous studies. I'd like to see the ones you referenced. (srs)
I don't believe it's just a "primitive ritual". I'm not religious, but i think when done right, Ramadan can be very beneficial.
I don't understand what you said about blood sugar. Eating before bed does not have a particularly bad effect on it, though.

im not going to do all the research for you, it is fairly accpeted science, even most lay-people know that overeating at night time will eventually lead to fat gain


try for starters


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21475137


going to bed with a boosted blood sugar level without a corresponding level of activity is also a bad combination for body chemistry also, like i siad educate yourself before making daft comments that 'gorging at night during ramadan is healthy'

[jmlkey]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
im not going to do all the research for you, it is fairly accpeted science, even most lay-people know that overeating at night time will eventually lead to fat gain


try for starters


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21475137


going to bed with a boosted blood sugar level without a corresponding level of activity is also a bad combination for body chemistry also, like i siad educate yourself before making daft comments that 'gorging at night during ramadan is healthy'

I can't work out how you think that study supports your point. They ate minimal carbs during the day and reported they felt less hungry and lost more weight. Cool.
You realise your body deals with the blood sugar spike in your sleep in the same way it would if you were awake?

And to clarify, i said that Ramadan isn't unhealthy, and when done properly, is useful for teaching yourself things.

[GreenLantern1]

(Original post by callum9999)
Much as it's fallen out of fashion in Christianity (now morphed into a day to eat loads of pancakes, a day to eat loads of chocolate and the fasting period generally ignored!), I would be shocked if it didn't eventually fall out of fashion with Muslims.

Because whether you accept it or not - that is exactly what organised religion is - fashion. I say organised because I find the notion of it absurd, whereas private religious beliefs tend to be more rationale. How anyone can see that Muslims tend to produce Muslim children, and Christians tend to produce Christian child, and not see that it blatantly proves that (for the majority) they are simply believing what they've been told to believe I have no idea!

So unbelievably true!

I have no issue with religion (well believing in God) - but the fact that people think it is all about organised religion is stupid. Children often just join the religion of their family not because they are touched by it, are devoted to it out of belief and because they have chosen this path to God. Just because it is something that is a part of their family! Doesn't mean they believe in all this fasting - some just do it for the sake of it.

[kironkabir]

It's not about if I want to or not. Heck, if I wanted to, I could snack all day and not let anyone see but that's exactly the point.

By being able to hold your fast, you show that you aren't being a wimp and you have some discipline that has shaped your integrity.

And why is this directed at Muslims? Jews, Hindus, Christians, etc fast too.
Muslims get enough attention as it is

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by jmlkey)
I can't work out how you think that study supports your point. They ate minimal carbs during the day and reported they felt less hungry and lost more weight. Cool.
You realise your body deals with the blood sugar spike in your sleep in the same way it would if you were awake?

And to clarify, i said that Ramadan isn't unhealthy, and when done properly, is useful for teaching yourself things.

no, they restricted consumption in the day to 8pm and no later and were able to record loss of bodyfat as oppossed to gain.


ramadan encoruages eating much later than 8pm, becuase rather than actual fasting , muslims are jsut told to reverse normal eating habits, ie eating all that they would in the night instead of day. if this was perfectly healthy, humans would hvae been and still be doing it 12 months of the year
There is no health motive for ramadan, it is simply an hangover of islamic superstition


the body deals with sugar spike based on activity, with little activity there is a larger insulin spike to compensate and the sugar is also converted to glucose in the body - if this process takes place prior to sleeping, this all is converted into fat stores in the body. That is very basic bio-chemistry. if you didnt know this, dont give bad advice to people here about eating habits.

[jmlkey]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
no, they restricted consumption in the day to 8pm and no later and were able to record loss of bodyfat as oppossed to gain.

the body deals with sugar spike based on activity, with little activity there is a larger insulin spike to compensate and the sugar is also converted to glucose in the body - if this process takes place prior to sleeping, this all is converted into fat stores in the body. That is very basic bio-chemistry. if you didnt know this, dont give bad advice to people here about eating habits.

[/QUOTE]

So they ate at a caloric deficit and lost weight. Miraculous, truly.

What you're saying about it all being converted to fat simply is not true. It's a myth that has been debunked numerous times. A calorie is a calorie, regardless of when you eat it.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by jmlkey)

So they ate at a caloric deficit and lost weight. Miraculous, truly.

What you're saying about it all being converted to fat simply is not true. It's a myth that has been debunked numerous times. A calorie is a calorie, regardless of when you eat it.

lol debunked where? Youre sounding stupid now


high blood sugar levels at sleep means excess glucose that cannot be further converted to glycogen, will be stored in the body as fat reserves, namely triacylglycerol


this again is the basics known to science for years - if you are debunking this kindly provide the proven study that does so, otherwise STFU about spreading lies about bs theories about ramadan pigging out at night.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by GreenLantern1)
So unbelievably true!

I have no issue with religion (well believing in God) - but the fact that people think it is all about organised religion is stupid. Children often just join the religion of their family not because they are touched by it, are devoted to it out of belief and because they have chosen this path to God. Just because it is something that is a part of their family! Doesn't mean they believe in all this fasting - some just do it for the sake of it.

lol ramadan just another ritual whose origins has got lost over time.


Why do i eat turkey at christmas, when i never touch the stuff for 364 days of the year?


however its not really accepted in islam to question these things or step away from the norm. hence the critisism of the Op from muslims here about avoiding fast days, no matter how daft it all is.
fast days, no matter how daft it all is.

[MissKay05]

Well a woman cant fast if she in her monthly menstrual cycle, pregnant or brestfeeding.

[jmlkey]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
lol debunked where? Youre sounding stupid now


high blood sugar levels at sleep means excess glucose that cannot be further converted to glycogen, will be stored in the body as fat reserves, namely triacylglycerol

Granted, i can't find a study that is particularly relevant to this, but even assuming your body couldn't store any more glycogen, your metabolism does not simply stop at night. Of course, if you're over eating, yes you will gain fat. But this is because you're over eating, not because you ate it at night.
I'm gonna stop now, because i'm aware that we're taking over the thread.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by jmlkey)
Granted, i can't find a study that is particularly relevant to this, but even assuming your body couldn't store any more glycogen, your metabolism does not simply stop at night. Of course, if you're over eating, yes you will gain fat. But this is because you're over eating, not because you ate it at night.
I'm gonna stop now, because i'm aware that we're taking over the thread.

its perfectly relevant to this thread because studies have shown the time of day you eat heavily ( ie at night during ramadan) has adverse consequences. It was just explained to you that during sleep, when glycogen cannot be stored, it is converted to fats. SO loading up with calories prior to 8 hours of sleep is idiocy and not 'healthy ramadan practice' as you called it. i dont want some impressionable kid to read your false comment then think his supertitious ritual is doing him some miraculous benefit when it isnt.

[jmlkey]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
its perfectly relevant to this thread because studies have shown the time of day you eat heavily ( ie at night during ramadan) has adverse consequences. It was just explained to you that during sleep, when glycogen cannot be stored, it is converted to fats. SO loading up with calories prior to 8 hours of sleep is idiocy and not 'healthy ramadan practice' as you called it. i dont want some impressionable kid to read your false comment then think his supertitious ritual is doing him some miraculous benefit when it isnt.

I know i said i wouldn't, but...

I meant i couldn't find a study relevant to our discussion.
I wasn't aware glycogen couldn't be stored at night, sources?
The way you keep "quoting" things i haven't said is starting to get annoying. All i actually said was that ramadan done properly is not unhealthy, and is useful for teaching yourself things, like empathy with the poor and self control. I never said or implied it was anything beyond that.