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B481 - Core Subjects Bill 2012

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    (Original post by toronto353)
    Yes, but I don't prioritise it over teaching children how to read and write. Furthermore, you've also got issues with teaching current primary school teachers to teach MFLs which is a huge problem that this Bill doesn't solve.
    As I always say when a debate on education pops up: its impossible to get the system to do anything that it would ideally do if you're unwilling to spend adequate amounts on equipping it do so. I'd boost the budget by £20bn and hire better teachers for every class.
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    I used to be against these sort of things, but I do think that every child requires equal opportunities and equal access to foreign language learning, not just restricted to French, Spanish and German. I would have loved the opportunity to learn Chinese, for instance, but this choice was not available to me. Instead, I learnt commercially less valuable languages for which I have no real use. Only my parents would have been able to choose that for me (if they had access to the right amount of money, which is another discriminating factor). Education is such an important ingredient for establishing a socially mobile (and in my view, fairer) society, and so curriculums cannot be left to just parental determination. A base standard in mathematical skills, for example, ensures equal access to important knowledge for children.

    More controversially, I think it's important for young minds to have the opportunity to be furnished with beauty - the poems of English writers, the achievements of English kings, salient works in European philosophy, and so forth. It's odd for somebody who identifies himself as a left-winger to have such a Tory perspective on education, but it seems that I've lurched that way during my time as a university student. I recognise, however, that vocational education also needs to be improved for less academically able students. I don't think that we do enough to equip students who are not lucky enough to be blessed with the intelligence to enter university.

    Educational philosophy has been dominated by the works of John Dewey during the early 20th century and needs a fundamentally rethinking. It's nothing more than pseudo-intellectual nonsense that left-wingers have, unfortunately, taken to be Gospel and somehow integral to a left-wing perspective on education systems.

    I agree with the spirit, if not the specifics, of the Bill, though I suspect the Bill will be very unpopular here!
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    While I agree that foreign languages should be compulsory in schools. The lack of science on the curriculum worries me.

    <3 x
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    (Original post by JPKC)
    As I always say when a debate on education pops up: its impossible to get the system to do anything that it would ideally do if you're unwilling to spend adequate amounts on equipping it do so. I'd boost the budget by £20bn and hire better teachers for every class.
    You can't suddenly magic primary school teachers that can adequately teach MFLs out of thin air regardless of how much money you have.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    You can't suddenly magic primary school teachers that can adequately teach MFLs out of thin air regardless of how much money you have.
    Oh yes I can. It's a great party trick. :awesome:

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    There would be an increase in demand for the job if teachers were both paid more and treated on a par with doctors in terms of respect for their profession. Obviously it wouldn't happen instantly, but it wouldn't take longer than a decade. Finland pulled it off in that amount of time and we may even do better seeing as we have a higher proportion of high-quality graduates to teaching posts than Finland did when it undertook the reforms.
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    Against, of course the teaching of MFL is important. However making it compulsory is just going to have extremely adverse effects. However, it should always be an option in Secondary schools. There are many other reasons, however some of the honourable members of the house have already mentioned them therefore it would be pointless to mention them again.


    This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my HTC Wildfire S A510e
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    One main critism is the Route 2 of KS4 - not having any sciences compulsory up to 16 is not something I could support.

    Also, what would happen to subjects like Politics Education and HSSE that have been passed by this house?
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    Where do these foreign language teachers come from.

    PE should always be core
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    (Original post by Alofleicester)
    Also, what would happen to subjects like Politics Education and HSSE that have been passed by this house?
    :ditto:
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    My main concern is science in route 2. Most jobs require a GCSE of some form in science, so I would like some form of this.

    Other then that, it looks good to me, although I'm a little sceptical about finding Primary School teachers who can teach MFL's.
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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    Oh really? these people must be stupid as they don't realise what advantages knowing a second language can bring.
    Like being able to live and work in whatever random country the sorting hat decided they should learn the language of at age 4? At least, you could do that if GCSE actually made people fluent, which it doesn't anyway.

    There is one language with a very wide use for almost everyone who is educated, and that is English. But by a lucky accident of nature we already learn that one.

    (Original post by JPKC)
    There would be an increase in demand for the job if teachers were both paid more and treated on a par with doctors in terms of respect for their profession.
    No doubt; if you paid teachers £100k I don't know many people who wouldn't want to get on board the gravy train. At least, until it bankrupted the exchequer.

    I also think it's bad in general to have the best people be teachers. Ultimately we want the best people to do things, while teaching doesn't actually require that much knowledge by comparison, and is much more about having the right sort of personality.
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    (Original post by Lipvig)
    My main concern is science in route 2. Most jobs require a GCSE of some form in science, so I would like some form of this.

    Other then that, it looks good to me, although I'm a little sceptical about finding Primary School teachers who can teach MFL's.
    In theory, every primary school should be teaching a MFL already, although going by the few primary schools I know enough about through relatives attending or whatever this doesn't always happen and isn't that great if it does. I think 2 is really pushing it unless a training scheme for primary teachers is started.
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    Lots of science and maths in there. If such a thing existed when I was at school I would have struggled even more than I already did. And making PE mandatory? I don't think that's neccesary. There will always be people and students who are less sporting than others, I think mandatory PE is less mandatory.

    I like the idea of Sex ed and food technology being mandatory subjects. Any chance of combining the two? :sexface:
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    And making PE mandatory? I don't think that's necessary.
    I agree with the lack of Math and English however why should Physical Education not be necessary? have you seen the amount of fat children that there are in this country? I advocate Physical Education to be mandatory in every country... I am not saying every child should create perfectly chiselled bodies but at least get them within their perfect weight for their height and shape.
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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    I agree with the lack of Math and English however why should Physical Education not be necessary? have you seen the amount of fat children that there are in this country? I advocate Physical Education to be mandatory in every country... I am not saying every child should create perfectly chiselled bodies but at least get them within their perfect weight for their height and shape.
    I certainly agree that education about healthy living and healthy eating should be imposed more. Not everyone is suited to exercise though.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    I certainly agree that education about healthy living and healthy eating should be imposed more. Not everyone is suited to exercise though.
    Whether they are suited to it or not, they should do exercise... I cannot stand seeing fat adults and children around me, at least if we get them exercising early on they should hopefully be used to it enough to continue unlike adults who sometimes start then stop as they cannot get the routine right.

    I do agree that healthy living should be advocated more however it is not enough.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    Not everyone is suited to exercise though.
    Actually millions of years of evolution mean that we are in fact all suited to exercise.
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    (Original post by Smack)
    Actually millions of years of evolution mean that we are in fact all suited to exercise.
    I don't mean in the evolutionary sense, more like because of health problems or a real lack of interest or desire. If someone really isn't into it then it'll be a bugger trying to get them to do it.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    I don't mean in the evolutionary sense, more like because of health problems or a real lack of interest or desire. If someone really isn't into it then it'll be a bugger trying to get them to do it.
    Like what kind of health problems? How can someone who is part of millions of years of successful evolution suddenly be born with "health problems" that make them unable to do what their ancestors had to do? That's what I'm getting at.
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    (Original post by Smack)
    Like what kind of health problems? How can someone who is part of millions of years of successful evolution suddenly be born with "health problems" that make them unable to do what their ancestors had to do? That's what I'm getting at.
    The type of activity you have in PE - everyone playing rugby / football for 50 minutes - isn't necessarily well adapted to meeting the needs of those who do have more challenging needs, whether they are the result of mental or physical impairment. In reality, schools don't have very good sports facilities (some Conservatives thought it a good idea to sell off playing fields) and so the variety on offer in PE is limited and often serves to put people off physical activity. Bleep tests, soccer, and the inevitable humiliating shouts from a PE teacher who is incapable of teaching anything intellectually taxing? I think not. Evolution may have primed us for physical activity but it also created brain-dead PE teachers.
Updated: August 8, 2012
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