[the man from space]

(Original post by James A)
exactly.

So many brainwashed people on this site.

Islam began in the time of adam and continued through the prophets after him who taught others through word of mouth, Prophet Muhammed (SAW) was the last prophet and therefore Allah (SW) decided to create the Quran in order to teach people after the last Prophet.

Thus meaning that Islam was created before Prophet Muhammed, this is too all the people whom know nothing about Islam but yet dont understand the history of islam. Would you let someone who didnt know much about the law defend you in court? (not similar but the only thing i could think off.

Secondly, in Islam we believe that Jesus was a prophet spreading the message of Allah as one of the Prophets across the world

Thirdly, Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but atleast make it credible by justified it? For example, Women are not treated equal to men, first i dont agree with this, the Quran disagrees with it as the Quran says that Heaven lies at your mothers feet and countless other mother references and that your Wife must be treated with the highest respect as a man who disrespects his wife is a sin. The women who are treated badly is not a muslim ideal but an Asian one, as most cases that people bring up are to do with Asian families. An example is Sudan which is an islamic country and the women are highly respected to the point that the Men do all the housework and work their jobs. This is a one off but in other countries, Women are respected.

Yes im muslim and i dont mind your criticism of islam along as its a fair argument in which both sides have a say

[.eXe]

(Original post by the man from space)
Islam began in the time of adam and continued through the prophets after him who taught others through word of mouth,

Stolen from Torah/Old Testament

Prophet Muhammed (SAW) was the last prophet and therefore Allah (SW) decided to create the Quran in order to teach people after the last Prophet.

This has nothing to do with Jesus being a muslim.

Thus meaning that Islam was created before Prophet Muhammed, this is too all the people whom know nothing about Islam but yet dont understand the history of islam. Would you let someone who didnt know much about the law defend you in court? (not similar but the only thing i could think off.

No this doesn't mean that. Until mohammad, the word "islam" didn't even exist. The word "muslim" didn't even exist. There wasn't a single prophet, individual, book, or anything AT ALL which says anything or even mentions Islam, Mohammad, Allah or Quran, before Mohammad. So stop making things up please.

[Arbolus]

It really isn't as far-fetched as everyone seems to think. There aren't many differences between Islam and Judaism - the only big one is that Jews don't believe in either Jesus or Muhammad. The only requirement for someone to be considered a Muslim is to believe that "There is no god but God, Muhammad is the messenger of God", and if the possibility that Jesus was indeed a prophet and did predict the coming of Muhammad is considered, that would be enough for him to be a Muslim. It's just as valid a hypothesis as the idea that Jesus was the Son of God.

Not that that makes it any more believable.

[Cephalus]

(Original post by the man from space)
Islam began in the time of adam and continued through the prophets after him who taught others through word of mouth, Prophet Muhammed (SAW) was the last prophet and therefore Allah (SW) decided to create the Quran in order to teach people after the last Prophet.

Thus meaning that Islam was created before Prophet Muhammed, this is too all the people whom know nothing about Islam but yet dont understand the history of islam. Would you let someone who didnt know much about the law defend you in court? (not similar but the only thing i could think off.

Secondly, in Islam we believe that Jesus was a prophet spreading the message of Allah as one of the Prophets across the world

Thirdly, Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but atleast make it credible by justified it? For example, Women are not treated equal to men, first i dont agree with this, the Quran disagrees with it as the Quran says that Heaven lies at your mothers feet and countless other mother references and that your Wife must be treated with the highest respect as a man who disrespects his wife is a sin. The women who are treated badly is not a muslim ideal but an Asian one, as most cases that people bring up are to do with Asian families. An example is Sudan which is an islamic country and the women are highly respected to the point that the Men do all the housework and work their jobs. This is a one off but in other countries, Women are respected.

Yes im muslim and i dont mind your criticism of islam along as its a fair argument in which both sides have a say

How can you say that Jesus spread the message of Allah? Although you would disregard the Bible as evidence, there are many non - religious sources that said that Jesus claimed to be the Son of God

[Perseveranze]

(Original post by ExMuslim)
Sigh.

Jesus wasn't a Muslim. If he even existed he was a heretic Jew. There was no such thing as a "Muslim" in the ancient world before MoMo came down from the cave and proclaimed himself a Prophet ordained by Allah via the Angel Gabriel.

"ExMuslim" typically taken to seek desperate attention.

Do you even know what a Muslim means? Go on, research it and get back to me.

(Original post by Cephalus)
How can you say that Jesus spread the message of Allah? Although you would disregard the Bible as evidence, there are many non - religious sources that said that Jesus claimed to be the Son of God

Jesus(pbuh) did spread the message of Allah/God. He told everyone to worship Him and ascribe no partners.

"...The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord." (Mark 12:29)

"And your God is One God: There is no God but He, ..." (The Qur'an 2:163)

[the man from space]

Firstly, its not stolen but written in the Quran and if you read the quran it actually goes into more detail then both the Torah and the Old Testament which you would have known if you had done a little bit of research

I hope you understand the logic there

Jesus as a muslim, well like the Prophets before and after him, he spread the same message, showed kindness and it was like this prof says a social justice movement which the prophets where acheiving such as liberating slaves.

But the message of Allah was spread, Allah did exist, all the Prophets mentioned allah as in order to convert to islam, they had to say (lā ʾilāha ʾillà l-Lā) which is there is no god but Allah

[.eXe]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
"ExMuslim" typically taken to seek desperate attention.

Do you even know what a Muslim means? Go on, research it and get back to me.

You do realize that the "history" in Islam is just stolen from the Torah right?

It's common sense buddy...let's say I write a book today saying that in 2008, George bush was president. 750 years later, someone else writes a book saying that George bush was president in 2008....does that mean that they are more correct than me? Does it mean that the later book is more authoritative just because it is more recent?

No...it just means that they wrote a subsequent commentary on some past event. It doesn't say anything about the validity and authenticity of the later text.

The reason I say that the Quran was copied from the Torah is because the Torah is the only text which has certain events (for example Adam and Eve story). So the only way the Quran can have those events if if it stole them from a prior text...in our case...the Torah.

[ESPORTIVA]

Jesus was jewish and more than likely looked middle eastern (as he was born and lived there!)

[. . .]

(Original post by Pinkhead)
...Right.
What happened to evolution?

Apart from that obvious error in your claim, you're saying Islam was around before Muhammed was born? Isn't that just what you believe it to be, rather than a factual statement?

This isn't an Religion vs Atheism thread. We are discussing religion here.

Yes but like all religions it is based upon faith.

[Historophilia]

(Original post by the man from space)
Islam began in the time of adam and continued through the prophets after him who taught others through word of mouth, Prophet Muhammed (SAW) was the last prophet and therefore Allah (SW) decided to create the Quran in order to teach people after the last Prophet.

Thus meaning that Islam was created before Prophet Muhammed, this is too all the people whom know nothing about Islam but yet dont understand the history of islam. Would you let someone who didnt know much about the law defend you in court? (not similar but the only thing i could think off.

Secondly, in Islam we believe that Jesus was a prophet spreading the message of Allah as one of the Prophets across the world

Thirdly, Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but atleast make it credible by justified it? For example, Women are not treated equal to men, first i dont agree with this, the Quran disagrees with it as the Quran says that Heaven lies at your mothers feet and countless other mother references and that your Wife must be treated with the highest respect as a man who disrespects his wife is a sin. The women who are treated badly is not a muslim ideal but an Asian one, as most cases that people bring up are to do with Asian families. An example is Sudan which is an islamic country and the women are highly respected to the point that the Men do all the housework and work their jobs. This is a one off but in other countries, Women are respected.

Yes im muslim and i dont mind your criticism of islam along as its a fair argument in which both sides have a say

Errrr what? I'm not sure where you've got that from but Sudan is probably one of the worst places in the world be a woman....

[the man from space]

(Original post by Historophilia)
Errrr what? I'm not sure where you've got that from but Sudan is probably one of the worst places in the world be a woman....

Muslim woman and any justification, i live next door to a sudan family and i found it odd, they say its tradition

[. . .]

(Original post by .eXe)
You do realize that the "history" in Islam is just stolen from the Torah right?

It's common sense buddy...let's say I write a book today saying that in 2008, George bush was president. 750 years later, someone else writes a book saying that George bush was president in 2008....does that mean that they are more correct than me? Does it mean that the later book is more authoritative just because it is more recent?

No...it just means that they wrote a subsequent commentary on some past event. It doesn't say anything about the validity and authenticity of the later text.

The reason I say that the Quran was copied from the Torah is because the Torah is the only text which has certain events (for example Adam and Eve story). So the only way the Quran can have those events if if it stole them from a prior text...in our case...the Torah.

Muslims do believe in the Torah that is the original version.

[Leon Trotsky]

Is this professor about to release a book or go on a speaking tour or something?

[Flash7]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
"ExMuslim" typically taken to seek desperate attention.

Do you even know what a Muslim means? Go on, research it and get back to me.



Jesus(pbuh) did spread the message of Allah/God. He told everyone to worship Him and ascribe no partners.

"...The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord." (Mark 12:29)

"And your God is One God: There is no God but He, ..." (The Qur'an 2:163)

Muslim means that I will be lied to and will not even question it.

Muslim means that I will be given a very vague book which I can distort to make whatever truth I want.

Muslim means that I will lie to myself just to try and prove the so called scientific facts in the Qur'an regardless of how illogical my arguements may be.

Muslim means that I know that Muhammad was a perverted peadophile and although I would never marry a 6 year old and consummate my marriage with a 9-year old, it's okay for my most perfect prophet to do so.

I think it has a few more definitions. I'll get back to you with more.

[+ polarity -]

(Original post by practice is key)
if you look at jesus pictures he looks like a muslim and muslims actually follow his teachings more than the cristians

**** me.

[kka25]

I would be more surprised if they say that Jesus looked European and was white...

EDIT:

(Original post by Banishingboredom)
Attachment 164724

Evidence Jesus was a Pastafarian.

(NOT Spam Mods, you Nazis).

and I read; "Evidence Jesus was a Pakistani"

[Historophilia]

(Original post by the man from space)
Muslim woman and any justification, i live next door to a sudan family and i found it odd, they say its tradition

I'm not sure that some tradition about men doing the housework really makes up for the fact that a Sudanese woman is more likely to die in childbirth than she is to finish primary school...

[Perseveranze]

(Original post by .eXe)
You do realize that the "history" in Islam is just stolen from the Torah right?

No I don't, this is news to me, since Islam isn't a new religion nor did it ever claim to be.

(Original post by .eXe)
It's common sense buddy...let's say I write a book today saying that in 2008, George bush was president. 750 years later, someone else writes a book saying that George bush was president in 2008....does that mean that they are more correct than me? Does it mean that the later book is more authoritative just because it is more recent?

Does this book claim to be a linguistic miracle, a book from God? Does it tell you to produce challenges?

And your scenario is exactly what can be attributed to Paul lmao.

(Original post by .eXe)
No...it just means that they wrote a subsequent commentary on some past event. It doesn't say anything about the validity and authenticity of the later text.

So you believe that's all your Bible is today? Just commentary on some past event?

(Original post by .eXe)
The reason I say that the Quran was copied from the Torah is because the Torah is the only text which has certain events (for example Adam and Eve story). So the only way the Quran can have those events if if it stole them from a prior text...in our case...the Torah.

Or, if you actually learned something real about Islam from legitimate sources, you would know;

Islam isn't a new religion, it existed since the time of Adam(pbuh). It just came down in the 7th century in it's end form with God correcting the wrong and confirmed the right (that came before).

We did send messengers before thee, and appointed for them wives and children: and it was never the part of a messenger to bring a sign except as Allah permitted (or commanded). For each period is a book (revealed). Allah doth blot out or confirm what He pleaseth: with Him is the mother of the book. [Quran 13:38]

This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds. [Quran 10:37]

More here - http://www.islamicity.com/articles/a...ef=ic0703-3248

[f1mad]

(Original post by + polarity -)
**** me.

Hysterical isn't it .

[Pinkhead]

(Original post by . . .)
This isn't an Religion vs Atheism thread. We are discussing religion here.

Yes but like all religions it is based upon faith.

I don't think I was implying that this is a religion vs atheism thread.

Of course, religions are based on faith, but when deciding what faith Jesus was part of, do we not look at factual evidence?
How else do you decide whether he was Muslim or Christian? Are you supposed to use faith for that as well?