[Stephaniet18]

As an Arsenal fan, I don't very much like this discussion :P

My two cents worth anyway:

1) United (Kagawa is the one to watch next season. Oh and Howard Webb)
2) Man City (probably off target with this one but they haven't really been dipping their toes in the transfer market so far, except for RVP)
3) Chelsea (Hulk and Hazard)
4) Arsenal. (I'd move us above Chelsea and even City if we sign Cazorla , Sahin and MVila)
5) Tottenham (FOREVER IN OUR SHADOWS, only redeeming quality would be AVB)
6) Liverpool (sorry!)


Relegation: couldn't care less, just get Stoke out.

YPOTY: Alex Oxlade.




This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

[TheBallWinner]

I'll pluck with City winning the title again. It's gonna' be very tight though.

[River85]

(Original post by Stephaniet18)
As an Arsenal fan, I don't very much like this discussion :P

My two cents worth anyway:

1) United (Kagawa is the one to watch next season. Oh and Howard Webb)
2) Man City (probably off target with this one but they haven't really been dipping their toes in the transfer market so far, except for RVP)
3) Chelsea (Hulk and Hazard)
4) Arsenal. (I'd move us above Chelsea and even City if we sign Cazorla , Sahin and MVila)
5) Tottenham (FOREVER IN OUR SHADOWS, only redeeming quality would be AVB)
6) Liverpool (sorry!)

Relegation: couldn't care less, just get Stoke out.

YPOTY: Alex Oxlade.



This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

Why Liverpool above Newcastle? I'm not saying Newcastle will finish top five or six, but I believe that, unless Rodgers performs a minor miracle, Newcastle will finish above Liverpool again.

[charlie9872]

1.)City
2.)United
3.)Chelsea

(These three are going to be ridiculously tight all throughout the season and I feel could go to anyone towards the end of the season, we have the best squad and will make some improvements, United have injuries coming back, a very good signing in Kagawa and of course fergie. Chelsea have made some very good signings, and are still going with the spending.)

4.)Arsenal (Still think Arsenal will get their standard CL place, loosing RVP could have a substantial impact for the start of the season though)
5.)Tottenham (Strengthened squad, but loosing Modric could have quite and impact and AVB could be great or do a Chelsea)
6.)Liverpool (BR is a decent manager, far better than Dalglish and has/will make some decent signings)
7.) Newcastle (Feel they won't replicate last season, haven't improved their squad enough as of yet)

[NOBODY MOVE!]

i contributed to similar discussion for previous season a year ago - looking back at predictions i made back then it is plain to see i did awful O.O

BUT NONETHELESS HERE I TRY AGAIN

manchester city
manchester united
chelsea
arsenal

tottenham
newcastle

liverpool
everton
fulham
sunderland

stoke
queens park rangers
aston villa
westham united
reading
wigan (somehow to suvive once again.... FFFFFUUUUUU)
southampton

norwich
swansea
west bromwich albion

[sleep99]

Top 4:
-Man Utd
-Man City
-Chelsea
-Arsenal

Europa League:
-Spurs
-Liverpool
-Everton

Relegation:
-Southampton
-Reading
-Norwich.

[Femto]

Hmmm..

[River85]

(Original post by sleep99)
Top 4:
-Man Utd
-Man City
-Chelsea
-Arsenal

Europa League:
-Spurs
-Liverpool
-Everton

Relegation:
-Southampton
-Reading
-Norwich.

By Europa League, do you mean 5th, 6th and 7th as these positions won't necessarily entitle the team to Europa League footballl. What makes you think that Liverpool and Everton will finish above Newcastle?

[bluenose14]

1-City
2-United
3-Chelsea
4-Arsenal
5-Spurs
6-Liverpool
7-Everton
8-Newcastle
9-Fulham
10-Sunderland
11-Villa
12-Stoke
13-QPR
14-West Ham
15-Wigan
16-Swansea
17-West Brom
18-Reading
19-Norwich
20-Southampton

[TheInvincibles14]

1st - Man City
2nd - Arsenal
3rd - Man United
4th - Chelsea
-------------
5th - Tottenham
6th - Newcastle
-------------
18th - Norwich
19th - West Ham
20th - Reading

FA Cup: Arsenal
Carling Cup: Man United
UCL: Barcelona

PL Top Scorer: Aguero
PFA Player Of The Year: Santi Cazorla
PFA Young Player Of The Year: Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain

[sleep99]

(Original post by River85)
By Europa League, do you mean 5th, 6th and 7th as these positions won't necessarily entitle the team to Europa League footballl. What makes you think that Liverpool and Everton will finish above Newcastle?

I know that Europa League is 5th + League Cup + FA Cup, but often than not 6th and sometimes 7th do get into Europe.

Everton I reckon will do well as they now have Pienaar and Jelavic, someone who can create and someone who can finish. However, Man Utd(h) may add to a traditional slow start for them.

Newcastle I still feel, now with Europe, have to add to their squad. Debuchy would be a good start to that.

Liverpool, I don't know really. They could get 4th but also may end up finishing 8th. However they need some additions and there seem to be more rumours of players leaving than players signing for them.

[jamesandwhat]

firstly i'd like to say i'm an arsenal fan, but i attend a lot of liverpool games because my dad supports them and has a season ticket. 1-4 are all interchangable as are 5-7.
1-City
2-arsena
l3-Man U
4-Chelsea
5-Spurs
6-Liverpool
7-Newcastle
8-Everton
9-sunderland
10-qpr
11-stoke
12-west ham
13-southampton
14- fulham
15- cant remember the remaining team
16-Swansea
17-West Brom
18-Reading
19-Norwich
20 -wigan

city have a great, deep squad and i would be very surprised if they didn't add anyone. not RVP though. they will shift adebayor, santa cruz, etc. and will buy one top quality player, they need quality now not more quantity. they will buy a better centre back than lescott, a centre mid and one more.

I'm assuming arsenal either keep robin or replace him with someone of good standard. podolski is a brilliant signing despite everyone thinking his not-even-that-bad performances at the euros mean he's average. giroud, im not sure. im also assuming that we sign cazorla. if we sign sahin as well and a versatile full back (either side) then we could even win.

i really dont rate united's squad, but they usually overachieve so i shouldn't write them off. could easily win the league, espescially if they add in the centre of midfield and don't get injuries. plus they have ferguson. but i really don't rate rooney, nani, young, anderson, carrick, jones and others. de gea will be good this season and kagawa will prove a steal. perhaps its because i prefer attractive football and man utd are efficient.

everyone is jumping on the 'chelsea have hazard and marin and oscar and maybe hulk and torres' bandwagon, hazard is an excellent player, but wants to play behind the striker so i dont think he'll reach his full potential there. (will still be good but is predominantly a winger) oscar is one of the least sought-after of this young crop of brazilians. i'd he's behind neymar, lucas and ganso at least. heck QPR almost bought him in January weren't it for work permit.yes he's only 20 but he is largely unproven. only one season for his last club, 6 caps for brazil, and yet commentators at the olympics still say he's the man who keeps brazil ticking. i think he's a very skilled dribbler, but his shooting is off and i saw him misplace a few simple passes, which were the only type of passes he seemed capable last time. marin is just included in that speech to add up the numbers; a fringe player. you won't sign Hulk and torres could go either way next season. players ageing (terry, lampard) and some places still need improving. rb, cm (dont rate any), mata is the standout player i'd say. cech is always good. but they have RDM so even though they now have the potential for attractive football (imagine hazard, mata and torres all linking up in triangles) i don't think this will happen. they will be reserved for counter attacks but i think it is the sheer quality of hazard and mata that will keep them in the champions league spots. RDM has a poor record and people saying he won more in 3 months than wenger in 8 years are contradicting themselves. he did less than half the work. if he'd been there all season they probably would have been knocked out way before meeting barcelona. there's no denying they were awful against barca and bayern. not involved in the game AT ALL. people quote him getting MK dons to third, in like league one, is not an achievement any premier league manager would be proud of. i may be biased because admittedly i hate chelsea, but if they played exciting football i would like them. so let's hope chelsea do as bad as possible so pep guardiola can come in as quick as possible and hopefully salvage chelsea's season.

spurs have lost their manager and AVB could repeat what he did at chelsea, we'll have to wait and see. arguably spurs is more suited to his style than chelsea. but they are losing modric and have replaced him with sigurdson, a huge step down. they need to and will buy a striker; adebayor? and someone mentioned VDV leaving. call me biased but i never rated bale, but still a solid squad with the need for a few additions yet. vertonghen a great signing and they need a keeper i'd say.

liverpool: absolutely awful last season. the anfield faithful shell on about how they dominate games and were unlucky, i went to a handful of games last season, my dad and his brother are season ticket holders and i filled in for my uncle several times. they would say "ooh, unlucky" while i would think "mediocre". brendan rodgers is being branded as the next johan Cruyff, when in reality swansea last season were very defensive. the players who played the most passes in the league last season was williams (CB) on like 2500, arteta (2250) then another swansea CB on 2000. (about). that just shows most of their possession was negative. oh, and one of their CM's had the most backward passes in the league. they need serious additions to midfield, plus a winger. i don't rate gerrard any more. no liverpool midfielder seems good enough to me. they let aquilani go when he is the type of player they need.

fa cup - arsenal
capital one (carling) cup - newcastle
champions league - if man city make additions, them, if not, real madrid.
player of the year - silva
young player of the year - hazard/chamberlain
top scorer - aguero

[sleep99]

(Original post by jamesandwhat)
firstly i'd like to say i'm an arsenal fan, but i attend a lot of liverpool games because my dad supports them and has a season ticket. 1-4 are all interchangable as are 5-7.
1-City
2-arsena
l3-Man U
4-Chelsea
5-Spurs
6-Liverpool
7-Newcastle
8-Everton
9-sunderland
10-qpr
11-stoke
12-west ham
13-southampton
14- fulham
15- cant remember the remaining team
16-Swansea
17-West Brom
18-Reading
19-Norwich
20 -wigan

Aston Villa.

(Original post by jamesandwhat)

city have a great, deep squad and i would be very surprised if they didn't add anyone. not RVP though. they will shift adebayor, santa cruz, etc. and will buy one top quality player, they need quality now not more quantity. they will buy a better centre back than lescott, a centre mid and one more.

I'm assuming arsenal either keep robin or replace him with someone of good standard. podolski is a brilliant signing despite everyone thinking his not-even-that-bad performances at the euros mean he's average. giroud, im not sure. im also assuming that we sign cazorla. if we sign sahin as well and a versatile full back (either side) then we could even win.

i really dont rate united's squad, but they usually overachieve so i shouldn't write them off. could easily win the league, espescially if they add in the centre of midfield and don't get injuries. plus they have ferguson. but i really don't rate rooney, nani, young, anderson, carrick, jones and others. de gea will be good this season and kagawa will prove a steal. perhaps its because i prefer attractive football and man utd are efficient.

everyone is jumping on the 'chelsea have hazard and marin and oscar and maybe hulk and torres' bandwagon, hazard is an excellent player, but wants to play behind the striker so i dont think he'll reach his full potential there. (will still be good but is predominantly a winger) oscar is one of the least sought-after of this young crop of brazilians. i'd he's behind neymar, lucas and ganso at least. heck QPR almost bought him in January weren't it for work permit.yes he's only 20 but he is largely unproven. only one season for his last club, 6 caps for brazil, and yet commentators at the olympics still say he's the man who keeps brazil ticking. i think he's a very skilled dribbler, but his shooting is off and i saw him misplace a few simple passes, which were the only type of passes he seemed capable last time. marin is just included in that speech to add up the numbers; a fringe player. you won't sign Hulk and torres could go either way next season. players ageing (terry, lampard) and some places still need improving. rb, cm (dont rate any), mata is the standout player i'd say. cech is always good. but they have RDM so even though they now have the potential for attractive football (imagine hazard, mata and torres all linking up in triangles) i don't think this will happen. they will be reserved for counter attacks but i think it is the sheer quality of hazard and mata that will keep them in the champions league spots. RDM has a poor record and people saying he won more in 3 months than wenger in 8 years are contradicting themselves. he did less than half the work. if he'd been there all season they probably would have been knocked out way before meeting barcelona. there's no denying they were awful against barca and bayern. not involved in the game AT ALL. people quote him getting MK dons to third, in like league one, is not an achievement any premier league manager would be proud of. i may be biased because admittedly i hate chelsea, but if they played exciting football i would like them. so let's hope chelsea do as bad as possible so pep guardiola can come in as quick as possible and hopefully salvage chelsea's season.

spurs have lost their manager and AVB could repeat what he did at chelsea, we'll have to wait and see. arguably spurs is more suited to his style than chelsea. but they are losing modric and have replaced him with sigurdson, a huge step down. they need to and will buy a striker; adebayor? and someone mentioned VDV leaving. call me biased but i never rated bale, but still a solid squad with the need for a few additions yet. vertonghen a great signing and they need a keeper i'd say.

liverpool: absolutely awful last season. the anfield faithful shell on about how they dominate games and were unlucky, i went to a handful of games last season, my dad and his brother are season ticket holders and i filled in for my uncle several times. they would say "ooh, unlucky" while i would think "mediocre". brendan rodgers is being branded as the next johan Cruyff, when in reality swansea last season were very defensive. the players who played the most passes in the league last season was williams (CB) on like 2500, arteta (2250) then another swansea CB on 2000. (about). that just shows most of their possession was negative. oh, and one of their CM's had the most backward passes in the league. they need serious additions to midfield, plus a winger. i don't rate gerrard any more. no liverpool midfielder seems good enough to me. they let aquilani go when he is the type of player they need.

fa cup - arsenal
capital one (carling) cup - newcastle
champions league - if man city make additions, them, if not, real madrid.
player of the year - silva
young player of the year - hazard/chamberlain
top scorer - aguero

Interesting thoughts here.

[Pn94]

(Original post by River85)
Why Liverpool above Newcastle? I'm not saying Newcastle will finish top five or six, but I believe that, unless Rodgers performs a minor miracle, Newcastle will finish above Liverpool again.

Why would it be a minor miracle? You seem very confident you'll finish above us. Your squad isn't that much better, if at all. If underperfomers like Downing and Henderson can begin to reproduce even standard PL form that they have in the past, then I'm confident we can finish above Newcastle.

[River85]

(Original post by Pn94)
Why would it be a minor miracle? You seem very confident you'll finish above us. Your squad isn't that much better, if at all. If underperfomers like Downing and Henderson can begin to reproduce even standard PL form that they have in the past, then I'm confident we can finish above Newcastle.

I'm not a Newcastle fan so there'll be none of this "you'll" and "your" business.

As for the squad not being much better, need I remind you of the points gap last season? The league table doesn't lie and it demonstrates that Dalglish, as many Liverpool fans will admit, and I told the deluded fans last year, was out of his depth and outdated. It also shows that I the squad is, by and large, distinctly average compared to just three or four years earlier. Rodgers has a hard task ahead of him and I do feel he can turn Liverpool back into CL contenders within two years, but one perhaps not one year. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong.

Newcastle, on the other hand, have stability and the staff, including scouting, infrastructure already in place. The manager knows the squad which, at this moment in time, appears to have a great morale and togetherness. Who knows how Rodgers will take to Liverpool and its players? The major question that is being asked of them is how the squad will cope with the additional demands of European football. Though Newcastle regularly had European football, it has been a few seasons now and this is a different squad. At least three positions need strengthened/covered.

I'd much rather have a strikeforce of Cisse and Ba than Liverpool's. Suarez, scrote though he may be, is a creative player with flair. If Liverpool can utilise him properly, and provide adequate service, then I don't think they'll be far off Newcastle, maybe even ahead of them. But this is a big if. It won't surpise me if Suarez, still hurt of the y'know what incident, pissess off. You also need to cut your losses wrt to Carrol.

Ben Arfa and Cabaye have shown more creativity and form in one PL season than Downing and Henderson ever have (Downing has, in my opinion, always been overrated though this isn't to say he's a poor player). You also need to consider that Newcastle were missing their second best central defender for a large part of the season (they lost their unbeaten run and hit some bad form for a couple of weeks). If it wasn't for this they might have qualified for the CL.

Ultimately, I'm not really prepared to stick my neck out and make predictions like other people are doing, especially when there is still almost four weeks of the transfer window left. Newcastle haven't. However, I'm just surprised at the number of people who are so confident that not just Liverpool, but also Everton, will finish above Newcastle, when the points gap last season was quite significant and Liverpool have a new manager, and we just don't know how that will work out.

[Pn94]

(Original post by River85)
I'm not a Newcastle fan so there'll be none of this "you'll" and "your" business.

As for the squad not being much better, need I remind you of the points gap last season? The league table doesn't lie and it demonstrates that Dalglish, as many Liverpool fans will admit, and I told the deluded fans last year, was out of his depth and outdated. It also shows that I the squad is, by and large, distinctly average compared to just three or four years earlier. Rodgers has a hard task ahead of him and I do feel he can turn Liverpool back into CL contenders within two years, but one perhaps not one year. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong.

Newcastle, on the other hand, have stability and the staff, including scouting, infrastructure already in place. The manager knows the squad which, at this moment in time, appears to have a great morale and togetherness. Who knows how Rodgers will take to Liverpool and its players? The major question that is being asked of them is how the squad will cope with the additional demands of European football. Though Newcastle regularly had European football, it has been a few seasons now and this is a different squad. At least three positions need strengthened/covered.

I'd much rather have a strikeforce of Cisse and Ba than Liverpool's. Suarez, scrote though he may be, is a creative player with flair. If Liverpool can utilise him properly, and provide adequate service, then I don't think they'll be far off Newcastle, maybe even ahead of them. But this is a big if. It won't surpise me if Suarez, still hurt of the y'know what incident, pissess off. You also need to cut your losses wrt to Carrol.

Ben Arfa and Cabaye have shown more creativity and form in one PL season than Downing and Henderson ever have (Downing has, in my opinion, always been overrated though this isn't to say he's a poor player). You also need to consider that Newcastle were missing their second best central defender for a large part of the season (they lost their unbeaten run and hit some bad form for a couple of weeks). If it wasn't for this they might have qualified for the CL.

Ultimately, I'm not really prepared to stick my neck out and make predictions like other people are doing, especially when there is still almost four weeks of the transfer window left. Newcastle haven't. However, I'm just surprised at the number of people who are so confident that not just Liverpool, but also Everton, will finish above Newcastle, when the points gap last season was quite significant and Liverpool have a new manager, and we just don't know how that will work out.

Your points would be better applied to teams like Arsenal/Spurs I think, who have in general more depth/quality. I find your confidence in Newcastle confusing. You make it sound as if it's almost deadset that they will finish above Liverpool. A 'minor miracle'?. While I accept that they will compete with us and we may finish below them, I don't think it's unreasonable to think we could finish above them.

I accept they have a good team and they finished a sizeable amount of points above us last season, but there will be a lot of things that have changed at Liverpool for the upcoming season. New players will have been signed; Lucas looks like he's (touch wood) going to be fit for the start of the season, which is massive; and real underperformers like Carroll will most likely be sold. I don't think our home form will be as awful as last season either, which should guarantee a number of points. What BR will give us is clear tactical direction, something which was missing under Dalglish. This should help bring out whatever ability Downing and Henderson etc have. It should also improve Suarez' effectiveness.

As for Newcastle, there are a lot of factors which have to fall into place for them to have another season near the top 4 imo. They have players like Ba and Ben Arfa who are both susceptible to long term injuries. Not to mention the fact that Ba's initial goalrush wasn't in the slightest replicated in the second half of the season. Granted, Cisse looked like a fantastic signing but he's only had half a season in the league. The chances are that he won't continue that freescoring form. On top of that, their defence is probably the weakest of last season's top 8 and if there's an injury to Cabaye/Tiote in midfield, will they be able to cover for them with similar quality?

[NorwichtoBristol]

1st Man Utd
2nd Man City
3rd Arsenal
4th Chelsea
---------------
5th Tottenham
6th Everton
---------------
18th Stoke
19th Reading
20th Wigan

Really difficult to see who will be relegated this season, all the teams from about midtable are in danger which shows how much better the teams coming up from the championship are. I think the Reading/Stoke gap will be very small. I think Everton will sneak 6th as Newcastle won't be able to cope with the games although they will qualify again through the League Cup.

Community Shield: Man City
Capital One Cup: Newcastle United
FA Cup: Arsenal
UCL: Real Madrid
Europa League: Tottenham

PL Top Scorer: Aguero
PFA Player of the Year: Vidic
PFA Young Player of the Year: Powell

[scriggy]

(Original post by Pn94)
As for Newcastle, there are a lot of factors which have to fall into place for them to have another season near the top 4 imo. They have players like Ba and Ben Arfa who are both susceptible to long term injuries. Not to mention the fact that Ba's initial goalrush wasn't in the slightest replicated in the second half of the season. Granted, Cisse looked like a fantastic signing but he's only had half a season in the league. The chances are that he won't continue that freescoring form. On top of that, their defence is probably the weakest of last season's top 8 and if there's an injury to Cabaye/Cisse in midfield, will they be able to cover for them with similar quality?

I agree with your first two paragraph's but this one is a load of rubbish.

a) Ben Arfa isn't susceptible to long term injury. He had his leg snapped in half by De Jong but apart from that he's been fine. How does that make him injury prone?
b) Ba was moved out wide and had his nose pushed out by Cisse who was in incredible form. Quite hard to continue free scoring form in that scenario.
c) Defence worst in the top 8? Only City and United had more clean sheets than Newcastle, and as has already been said that was with Steven Taylor missing for over half the season. Yes we conceded the most, but that was only because when we lost, we lost badly. (4 conceded v. Wigan and Norwich, 5 against Spurs and Fulham. That's over a third of our total goals conceded in just 4 games. )
d) Quality cover for our big names is a worry though I'll give you that one.

For what it's worth though I'd probably put Newcastle and Liverpool on a par at the moment. It's going to be an interesting season for sure.

[River85]

(Original post by Pn94)
Your points would be better applied to teams like Arsenal/Spurs I think, who have in general more depth/quality. I find your confidence in Newcastle confusing. You make it sound as if it's almost deadset that they will finish above Liverpool. A 'minor miracle'?. While I accept that they will compete with us and we may finish below them, I don't think it's unreasonable to think we could finish above them.

I've already said that minor miracle was taking it a bit far. It was said to provoke and create debate. I don't really believe it will take a "minor miracle" and it is not unreasonable that Liverpool will finish above Newcastle, particularly if Ashley doesn't open his pockets and they don't stengthen sufficiently. However, I still don't understand people's confidence that Liverpool, and even Everton, will almost certainly finish above Newcastle.

As for Newcastle, there are a lot of factors which have to fall into place for them to have another season near the top 4 imo. They have players like Ba and Ben Arfa who are both susceptible to long term injuries. Not to mention the fact that Ba's initial goalrush wasn't in the slightest replicated in the second half of the season. Granted, Cisse looked like a fantastic signing but he's only had half a season in the league. The chances are that he won't continue that freescoring form. On top of that, their defence is probably the weakest of last season's top 8 and if there's an injury to Cabaye/Cisse in midfield, will they be able to cover for them with similar quality?

I believe this has been covered, but Ben Arfa is not injury prone. He had a broken leg. You would likely have had your leg broken too, had you been on the receiving end of De Jong's challenge. For the first half of last season he didn't start many games as Pardew was trying to build his fitness back up. When you're out for most of a season, you can't just go straight back into it. After Christmas Ben Arfa became a regular starter and there were no injuries. Ben Arfa didn't have injury problems in France as far as I'm aware (though there were some minor disciplinary problems).

Ba hasn't shown that he is injury prone in his first 18 months of English football. However, I am aware of his alleged knee problems. His goals dried up last season after Cisse's signing. On Cisse's debut, both Cisse and Ba started the game as central strikers (I think) and both got on the scoresheet. Soon after that a new formation was used and Ba was used on the left, as a provider, with Cisse in the middle as the main striker. This is why Ba's scoring dried up. Pardew has suggested that Ba will be given a more central role next season.

When I mentioned that Newcastle's squad still needs strengthening, I was referring largely to defence (they need one central defender, to either sort of Simpson's contract or buy a new right back, a central midfielders and striker). So I do appreciate that, in terms of depth, defence is a concern. But I don't believe their back four/five is the weakest of the top eight. They have, in Kruhl, a very promising goal keeper who has the potential to be among the best in the league. Taylor and Colocinni is a solid partnership and, as mentioned, Taylor was injured for a large part of last season. Santon also demonstrated that he has quality and was only really utilised in the second half of the season. Even with mediocore replacements for Taylor, such as Williamson, they managed to finish with a defensive record that places them among the best of the rest (ie. best after City and United) and better than Liverpool.

[Pn94]

(Original post by scriggy)
I agree with your first two paragraph's but this one is a load of rubbish.

a) Ben Arfa isn't susceptible to long term injury. He had his leg snapped in half by De Jong but apart from that he's been fine. How does that make him injury prone?
b) Ba was moved out wide and had his nose pushed out by Cisse who was in incredible form. Quite hard to continue free scoring form in that scenario.
c) Defence worst in the top 8? Only City and United had more clean sheets than Newcastle, and as has already been said that was with Steven Taylor missing for over half the season. Yes we conceded the most, but that was only because when we lost, we lost badly. (4 conceded v. Wigan and Norwich, 5 against Spurs and Fulham. That's over a third of our total goals conceded in just 4 games. )
d) Quality cover for our big names is a worry though I'll give you that one.

For what it's worth though I'd probably put Newcastle and Liverpool on a par at the moment. It's going to be an interesting season for sure.

(Original post by River85)
I've already said that minor miracle was taking it a bit far. It was said to provoke and create debate. I don't really believe it will take a "minor miracle" and it is not unreasonable that Liverpool will finish above Newcastle, particularly if Ashley doesn't open his pockets and they don't stengthen sufficiently. However, I still don't understand people's confidence that Liverpool, and even Everton, will almost certainly finish above Newcastle.



I believe this has been covered, but Ben Arfa is not injury prone. He had a broken leg. You would likely have had your leg broken too, had you been on the receiving end of De Jong's challenge. For the first half of last season he didn't start many games as Pardew was trying to build his fitness back up. When you're out for most of a season, you can't just go straight back into it. After Christmas Ben Arfa became a regular starter and there were no injuries. Ben Arfa didn't have injury problems in France as far as I'm aware (though there were some minor disciplinary problems).

Ba hasn't shown that he is injury prone in his first 18 months of English football. However, I am aware of his alleged knee problems. His goals dried up last season after Cisse's signing. On Cisse's debut, both Cisse and Ba started the game as central strikers (I think) and both got on the scoresheet. Soon after that a new formation was used and Ba was used on the left, as a provider, with Cisse in the middle as the main striker. This is why Ba's scoring dried up. Pardew has suggested that Ba will be given a more central role next season.

When I mentioned that Newcastle's squad still needs strengthening, I was referring largely to defence (they need one central defender, to either sort of Simpson's contract or buy a new right back, a central midfielders and striker). So I do appreciate that, in terms of depth, defence is a concern. But I don't believe their back four/five is the weakest of the top eight. They have, in Kruhl, a very promising goal keeper who has the potential to be among the best in the league. Taylor and Colocinni is a solid partnership and, as mentioned, Taylor was injured for a large part of last season. Santon also demonstrated that he has quality and was only really utilised in the second half of the season. Even with mediocore replacements for Taylor, such as Williamson, they managed to finish with a defensive record that places them among the best of the rest (ie. best after City and United) and better than Liverpool.

We had the joint 3rd best defensive record in the league alongside Everton (40 goals conceded). NUFC conceded 51 - the most of the top 8.

But those are fair points you both make and we could go around in circles all day. We'll see during this season as to how both teams do. It'll be interesting.