[tufc]

So spot on. How anyone can support abortion under libertarian principles when the first duty of any state is to protect life is beyond me.

[tufc]

People negging me without responding. Perhaps because they know their view is indefensible.

[Kiss]

I think abortion is fine as long at its done early. People who leave it until the last minute then chicken out are pathetic - I can sympathise with those who have medical conditions and have to abort late on but waiting until the end is with no decent reason is wrong IMO.

[tufc]

(Original post by marky--mark)
Or perhaps people are just tired of you.

3000+ posts, and people are still replying...

[boba]

shes not "brave" she sat behind a screen and made a video. people speak out about abortion all the time.
you for example seem to do so very regularly

[Cephalus]

Indeed I agree with you. The states first duty is to protect life. It cannot do this with the legalised murder of young babies

[sanaindaclub]

Oh for god's sake are we still on this? It's pretty damn simple. Everone has a right to live. A bundle of cells isnt a someone until several months into the pregnancy. Until then, mum can abort. After, she doesnt! Whats so hard about this? Bringing up a child isnt easy. If its not wanted it will be resented. I dont believe in forcing a women to have a child, but neither do i believe that a late abortion is justified unless there are extenuating circumstances such as health concerns.

[Cephalus]

(Original post by sanaindaclub)
Oh for god's sake are we still on this? It's pretty damn simple. Everone has a right to live. A bundle of cells isnt a someone until several months into the pregnancy. Until then, mum can abort. After, she doesnt! Whats so hard about this? Bringing up a child isnt easy. If its not wanted it will be resented. I dont believe in forcing a women to have a child, but neither do i believe that a late abortion is justified unless there are extenuating circumstances such as health concerns.

How do you know that a bundle of cells isn't a someone?

[tufc]

(Original post by sanaindaclub)
Oh for god's sake are we still on this? It's pretty damn simple. Everone has a right to live. A bundle of cells isnt a someone until several months into the pregnancy. Until then, mum can abort. After, she doesnt! Whats so hard about this? Bringing up a child isnt easy. If its not wanted it will be resented. I dont believe in forcing a women to have a child, but neither do i believe that a late abortion is justified unless there are extenuating circumstances such as health concerns.

That 'bundle of cells' has a heartbeat after 5 weeks.

[Bellissima]

why is she "brave"?

[R4INBOW]

(Original post by Cephalus)
How do you know that a bundle of cells isn't a someone?

Because it hasn't developed it's nervous system or any key organs which actually give it life.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

[Aj12]

(Original post by tufc)


So spot on. How anyone can support abortion under libertarian principles when the first duty of any state is to protect life is beyond me.

Because there is debate over when life begins.

Abortion should be allowed. My only complaint with it is how late it can be done. Children have been born and survived around the 24 week mark

[Cephalus]

(Original post by R4INBOW)
Because it hasn't developed it's nervous system or any key organs which actually give it life.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

Life starts at conception

[R4INBOW]

(Original post by Cephalus)
Life starts at conception

Cells don't think for themselves.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

[Phantom_X]

(Original post by tufc)


So spot on. How anyone can support abortion under libertarian principles when the first duty of any state is to protect life is beyond me.

This is just her own personal experience- it highlights key issues, sure, but its not an argument per say on the morality of abortion. Nowhere in the video does she address what is meant by 'life' or the relationship between the mother and the unborn foetus during the process of pregnancy. She simply says 'I used to believe that right to choose is good, then I fell in love and I stopped believing that, liberals are horrible etc etc'.

The argument she makes here is informed by emotion- and that's important- because while its all well and good for you, or even me to indulge ourselves in arguments on the morality of abortion or whether its right for WOMEN to undergo abortion proceedures, neither of us, i imagine, have actually had the experience of being pregnant or having a partner pregnant, neither of us have ever had to face those choices, and neither of us have had to think about this question on a really emotional level. In principle, I do feel that the right to choose is important, because its really the concept of the mother-child relationship at hand; the 'right to life' dosen't simply constitue plain existence in my opinion- it also denotes a certain quality of life which meets basic needs, including that of parental attention. If a young girl is pregnant, and is kicked out of her home, and abandoned by her boyfriend, she has little to expect when trying to raise a child, on her own, while also trying to feed herself and the child- otherwise, the child lives a bleak existence where it gradually becomes disattached from its mother (breaking a very important relationship) as well as not receiving the quality of life it might have had if the woman had a job, a home and the necessary support network needed. You might argue that you could give the baby up for adoption, but on several accounts this is horrific for the mother, who is concious that her child exists, but will never recognise her as a mother- leading to a lot of trauma afterword.

Noones saying that abortion dosen't lead to such traumas- it does and its well documented. What I would argue however, is that sometimes, abortion adopts a lesser of two evils; if aborted early, it dosen't develop a form of conciousness needed to argue that it is 'human' and therefore has the potential ability to achieve what other humans can achieve in the world- while at the same time allowing the mother a platform necessary to sustain herself before having children- particularly important when a support network does not exist otherwise, as is often the case. It's all well and good that the girl in the video had a supportive boyfriend, but unfortunately not everyone can be so lucky.

[Cephalus]

(Original post by R4INBOW)
Cells don't think for themselves.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

They don't need to. The sperm and egg are both alive before fertilisation. There is nothing to suggest that this life, after these two have fused, stops living

[R4INBOW]

(Original post by Cephalus)
They don't need to. The sperm and egg are both alive before fertilisation. There is nothing to suggest that this life, after these two have fused, stops living

From a biological viewpoint yes they are alive. But they are not yet a fully functioning organism. They don't have a nervous system, a brain to think for themselves and most importantly a heart, which could be said to be the origin of life itself. Without a heart where you be? Yes, I don't approve of abortion as a form of contraception. It's entirely the parents fault in that circumstance. However, I would advocate abortion if there were extenuating circumstances e.g. If the child was a rape child, or if it were to have some sort of disability which would reduce its quality of life to nill or if the birth would harm the mother in any way. In these scenarios, I'd prioritise the child bearer over a cluster of cells.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

[unclej]

(Original post by tufc)


So spot on. How anyone can support abortion under libertarian principles when the first duty of any state is to protect life is beyond me.

out of curiosity, are you against using contraception?

[RandZul'Zorander]

(Original post by Cephalus)
They don't need to. The sperm and egg are both alive before fertilisation. There is nothing to suggest that this life, after these two have fused, stops living

Using this reasoning all cells have a 'life' and doing anything is wrong because you are risking your cells' lives every time you do. Cells =/= human

[foodnom]

if you're a true libertarian then there would be no state at all. Therefore, people can do what they like when they like, including the decision whether to have an abortion or not.