Women are degraded in Islam!
Discuss religious, spiritual, and theological issues concerning Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or any other religion.
| Announcements | Posted on | |
|---|---|---|
| TSR launches Learn Together! - Our new subscription to help improve your learning | 16-05-2013 | |
-
- Reputation:
- Junior Member
- Posts: 47
Re: Women are degraded in Islam!Agreed. But I think the two components link in looped way - that is, if we encourage gender roles, we also reinforce gender inequality, e.g. women not reaching higher positions on career ladders because such positions require a certain degree of assertiveness and commitment to work which is arguably seen as unfeminine etc.(Original post by MonkeyMan2009)
gender roles are based upon the inequality of the sexes. Once we have complete gender equality in britain, only then will gender roles cease to exist. I don't think it will ever happen completely, but will come far enough to appease equality groups. -
- Reputation:
- Benevolent Member
- Posts: 699
Re: Women are degraded in Islam!haha omg your so funny..honestly. Very good points made here(Original post by Davij038)
If he can hit her back it is.
-
- Reputation:
- Vengeful, Imperial Overlord of The Student Room
Re: Women are degraded in Islam!not sure about your example and not sure that we in the west consider assertivness and commitment in the workplace to be "unfeminine" . . .(Original post by Haagen-Dazs)
Agreed. But I think the two components link in looped way - that is, if we encourage gender roles, we also reinforce gender inequality, e.g. women not reaching higher positions on career ladders because such positions require a certain degree of assertiveness and commitment to work which is arguably seen as unfeminine etc.
gender roles will always exist because men and women are physiologically and psychologically different - there isn't an equality in these areas and so there cannot be a total "equality" between the sexes. Only until we all accept that men and women are one and the same, then we can have complete equality.
in certain cultures, there will never be the gender equality we strive and continue to do so in the west as these cultures don't believe in gender equality. -
- Reputation:
- Full Member
- Posts: 82
Re: Women are degraded in Islam!My opinion is that people deserve to make basic human choices for themselves. Obviously, if I was a muslim woman I might be incredibly proud of my traditions and be happy with the prospect of an arranged marriage.(Original post by Ama2007)
There some peope/groups of people who want to find the slightest thing so they can point a finger at islam. Islam doesnt promote oppression or 'degradation' of women nor men...if you believe otherwise that is your opinion and that is all.I respect your opinion but will remain as an opinion only.
People poke the fingher at Islam because even if you ignore extremists, there are plenty of moderate muslims that given the choice would want to limit the choices people are allowed to make. Or pass on their beleifs to their children without giving them a choice.
I've met many muslims who are very liberal and westernized but still believe homosexuality is a serious mental illness. -
- Reputation:
- Vengeful, Imperial Overlord of The Student Room
Re: Women are degraded in Islam!what if he can't. can the fact that other women are getting beaten balance out the equality scale (as per your orginal argument that 'men are also degraded')(Original post by Davij038)
If he can hit her back it is. -
- Reputation:
- Junior Member
- Posts: 47
Re: Women are degraded in Islam!I do think there is still an element of that here. E.g. some assertive women get labelled ball-busting bitches, and some are judged for pursuing career over children, seen as unmotherly etc.(Original post by MonkeyMan2009)
not sure about your example and not sure that we in the west consider assertivness and commitment in the workplace to be "unfeminine" . . .
gender roles will always exist because men and women are physiologically and psychologically different - there isn't an equality in these areas and so there cannot be a total "equality" between the sexes. Only until we all accept that men and women are one and the same, then we can have complete equality.
in certain cultures, there will never be the gender equality we strive and continue to do so in the west as these cultures don't believe in gender equality.
I do agree that gender roles will exist, to some extent due to biological differences. Nevertheless, they are far too defined right now, and thus we should reduce this definition in the interests of greater equality. -
- Reputation:
- Full Member
- Posts: 82
Re: Women are degraded in Islam!If they have the choice to leave the relationship, then yes.(Original post by MonkeyMan2009)
what if he can't. can the fact that other women are getting beaten balance out the equality scale (as per your orginal argument that 'men are also degraded')
I don't know what point you're trying to make ... -
- Reputation:
- Vengeful, Imperial Overlord of The Student Room
Re: Women are degraded in Islam!me too . . . . my gf family are of pakistani musilm origin and are western and liberal in many ways but still believe that things like schizophrenia and other mental illnesses are the work of the devil or "evil forces" . . .its called brainwashing.(Original post by Davij038)
My opinion is that people deserve to make basic human choices for themselves. Obviously, if I was a muslim woman I might be incredibly proud of my traditions and be happy with the prospect of an arranged marriage.
People poke the fingher at Islam because even if you ignore extremists, there are plenty of moderate muslims that given the choice would want to limit the choices people are allowed to make. Or pass on their beleifs to their children without giving them a choice.
I've met many muslims who are very liberal and westernized but still believe homosexuality is a serious mental illness. -
- Reputation:
- Vengeful, Imperial Overlord of The Student Room
Re: Women are degraded in Islam!challenging your orginal point that degradation of men makes degradation of women acceptable as there is "equality" . . . my point is that it doesn't. Degradation of women still remains and is a significant problem and somethign which happens in every society and culture to various degrees and through various channels.(Original post by Davij038)
If they have the choice to leave the relationship, then yes.
I don't know what point you're trying to make ...
And yes, what we see as liberating may seem to be degrading to other cultures and vice versa. -
- Reputation:
- Vengeful, Imperial Overlord of The Student Room
Re: Women are degraded in Islam!how do we as a soceity change the definition and roles of genders when we cannot change our physiological and psychogical differences (perhaps with hormone replacement therapy - gender operations etc)?(Original post by Haagen-Dazs)
I do think there is still an element of that here. E.g. some assertive women get labelled ball-busting bitches, and some are judged for pursuing career over children, seen as unmotherly etc.
I do agree that gender roles will exist, to some extent due to biological differences. Nevertheless, they are far too defined right now, and thus we should reduce this definition in the interests of greater equality. -
- Reputation:
- Benevolent Member
- Posts: 699
Re: Women are degraded in Islam!OK.(Original post by Davij038)
My opinion is that people deserve to make basic human choices for themselves. Obviously, if I was a muslim woman I might be incredibly proud of my traditions and be happy with the prospect of an arranged marriage.
People poke the fingher at Islam because even if you ignore extremists, there are plenty of moderate muslims that given the choice would want to limit the choices people are allowed to make. Or pass on their beleifs to their children without giving them a choice.
I've met many muslims who are very liberal and westernized but still believe homosexuality is a serious mental illness.
Having the choice and give the right to choose varies from family to family never mind cultures and religion. Some people at the age of 4 get to choose where they can go on holiday in one family and 15 year old might dream of in another family. It depends in the way you have been brought up (which maybe affected by culture) For example a well educated family might bring the children up with very limited choices becuase they want thier children to be like them or they want thier children to achieve what they failed to achieve (for example...famous singer, doctor...whatever!). What am saying its a social issue not religion related. I mean there are people that dont have a choice...what do they do? they have been brought up for example like a ned....poor family...end up in care and all that.
Homosexuality is a different issue that is controversial in evry religion never mind islam. if someone think a gay person is mentally ill that doesnt mean they got that from thier religion. I know a uni friend who is gay...i never thought he was mentally ill.lol. Thats his choice wetheryou consider it to be utterly discusting or not ... -
- Reputation:
- Full Member
- Posts: 82
Re: Women are degraded in Islam!I wasn't saying it wouldn't remain or that it was acceptable. I was arguing that in the west there is less degradation and that it isn't exclusively female. The exact same thing could potentially happen with males. I've worked in the mental health sector for two years and I've seen plenty of cases of sexism against male staff.(Original post by MonkeyMan2009)
challenging your orginal point that degradation of men makes degradation of women acceptable as there is "equality" . . . my point is that it doesn't. Degradation of women still remains and is a significant problem and somethign which happens in every society and culture to various degrees and through various channels.
And yes, what we see as liberating may seem to be degrading to other cultures and vice versa. -
- Reputation:
- Junior Member
- Posts: 47
Re: Women are degraded in Islam!This is not such a convoluted point as I think you're turning it into. Change the role of genders to an extent by changing our expectations of the different genders. Little girls tend to be given dolls to play with, boys cars and lego. Remove prejudices of assertive women as being ball-busters, and call them determined, like men. The psychological differences are in part amplified by societal expectations - girls are supposed to be more emotional, caring, nurturing, and those who aren't are somehow unfeminine in a derogatory way. This happens, we cannot deny that it does not.(Original post by MonkeyMan2009)
how do we as a soceity change the definition and roles of genders when we cannot change our physiological and psychogical differences (perhaps with hormone replacement therapy - gender operations etc)? -
- Reputation:
- Full Member
- Location: Lahore,Pakistan
- Posts: 97
Re: Women are degraded in Islam!i disagree to those peoples whose believes that Women are degraded in Islam!(Original post by At peace)
This is one BIG thing people hold against Islam. This is one of the, let's say, top ten reasons for people hating Islam. They believe Islam puts the women down. [And I don't even mean the "hijab oppression" blah blah blah by it].
Why? My guess is hate and ignorance coupled with arrogance in some cases. This is how it usually goes (it went something similar to this with me last night)
Non Muslim:
Islam insults women.
Muslim:
No it doesn't.
Non Muslim:
Does so. What is your view on the Islamic concept that a woman is equal to that of a half a man?
Muslim:
Nothing because that is not an Islamic concept. So what is your view on Islamic concept that a father is equal to 1/4th of the mother?
Then the topic is changed (in my case to intelligence and faith and Qur'an), still sticking to Islam insults women and that they are a degree lower than men
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To answer the question some would have:
Q: What is your view on the Islamic concept that a woman is equal to that of a half a man?
It's a husband who is a degree higher than the wife just to have a stable system family with a head of the house who has more responsibility than the others. And this is valid "only" for the husband and wife, not just "any" man-woman. -
- Reputation:
- Vengeful, Imperial Overlord of The Student Room
Re: Women are degraded in Islam!yes i know of many cases and areas of life where men are "discriminated" against. This doesn't negate the fact that women are far worse off then men in terms of gender equality. Yes we have some way over the last few decades to allow gender equality, but we still have much work to do. We do have much better opportunities than other cultures and societies but this shouldn't allow us to become complacent.(Original post by Davij038)
I wasn't saying it wouldn't remain or that it was acceptable. I was arguing that in the west there is less degradation and that it isn't exclusively female. The exact same thing could potentially happen with males. I've worked in the mental health sector for two years and I've seen plenty of cases of sexism against male staff. -
- Reputation:
- Vengeful, Imperial Overlord of The Student Room
Re: Women are degraded in Islam!Yes this does happen and we can remove the primary sources of gender determination (i.e toys, dress etc). Yet still however much we do, there will always be gender inequality as men and women are both physiologically and psychologically different and no amount of social engineering will change this.(Original post by Haagen-Dazs)
This is not such a convoluted point as I think you're turning it into. Change the role of genders to an extent by changing our expectations of the different genders. Little girls tend to be given dolls to play with, boys cars and lego. Remove prejudices of assertive women as being ball-busters, and call them determined, like men. The psychological differences are in part amplified by societal expectations - girls are supposed to be more emotional, caring, nurturing, and those who aren't are somehow unfeminine in a derogatory way. This happens, we cannot deny that it does not. -
- Reputation:
- Full Member
- Posts: 82
Re: Women are degraded in Islam!Interesting point but:(Original post by Ama2007)
OK.
Having the choice and give the right to choose varies from family to family never mind cultures and religion. Some people at the age of 4 get to choose where they can go on holiday in one family and 15 year old might dream of in another family. It depends in the way you have been brought up (which maybe affected by culture) For example a well educated family might bring the children up with very limited choices becuase they want thier children to be like them or they want thier children to achieve what they failed to achieve (for example...famous singer, doctor...whatever!). What am saying its a social issue not religion related. I mean there are people that dont have a choice...what do they do? they have been brought up for example like a ned....poor family...end up in care and all that.
Religion is not about class and is too tied in with its culture to make the two separate.
To use your child metaphor- when that child is older it can visit the place it wanted to go to- it is unlikely its parents will forbid him from it.
The family may well want the child to be a doctor or whatever, but will unlikely severly punish the child for not achieving this.
There are people who have been brought up by scum, only to work their way up and better themselves- they have that option.
You are right in that homosexuality is controversial in most religions- but it is without doubt the main cause of homophobia.Homosexuality is a different issue that is controversial in evry religion never mind islam. if someone think a gay person is mentally ill that doesnt mean they got that from thier religion. I know a uni friend who is gay...i never thought he was mentally ill.lol. Thats his choice wetheryou consider it to be utterly discusting or not ...
Afria has long been very tolerant of homosexuals before the spread of christianity and Islam spread, for example. -
- Reputation:
- Full Member
- Posts: 82
Re: Women are degraded in Islam!Apart from inequal pay (which I am somewhat sceptical about) how would you say women are degraded in western culture?(Original post by MonkeyMan2009)
yes i know of many cases and areas of life where men are "discriminated" against. This doesn't negate the fact that women are far worse off then men in terms of gender equality. Yes we have some way over the last few decades to allow gender equality, but we still have much work to do. We do have much better opportunities than other cultures and societies but this shouldn't allow us to become complacent. -
- Reputation:
- Respected Member
- Posts: 165
Re: Women are degraded in Islam!No comments. I'm fasting, don't want Allah to be angry with me.(Original post by mariachi)
you mean, have sex with 9-year olds ?
this would spell trouble, believe me....
