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Women are degraded in Islam!

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    (Original post by El-Sayyid)
    So what is the problem? Islam is a religion of equality. We tolerate blacks and non-arabs in our mosques and for haj. Women of course have 2nd place but are well respected as compared to western countries. You western people are just jealous because your feminist women own you.
    make that 10thh place.
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    (Original post by El-Sayyid)
    So what is the problem? Islam is a religion of equality. We tolerate blacks and non-arabs in our mosques and for haj. Women of course have 2nd place but are well respected as compared to western countries. You western people are just jealous because your feminist women own you.
    Yes that's right. As a woman I am jealous because I want to be treated like a second class citizen. It is terrible that feminists fought for equality between the sexes; let the men rule the women without protest!

    I really don't know what planet you're on here. No self-respecting Western woman would want anything less than complete and absolute equality.
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    (Original post by Azaro)
    make that 10thh place.
    make it 10th place ha!

    you know what makes me laugh islam has done much more for the female then feminism.all feminism has done is degrade women to fashion,pornography,music and what nots. well done feminism well done the great western society! unbelievable!
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    (Original post by notnerdylikeyou)
    make it 10th place ha!

    you know what makes me laugh islam has done much more for the female then feminism.all feminism has done is degrade women to fashion,pornography,music and what nots. well done feminism well done the great western society! unbelievable!
    at least feminism gives women a choice, rather than locking them up in their ow personal jails called burka
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    (Original post by notnerdylikeyou)
    make it 10th place ha!

    you know what makes me laugh islam has done much more for the female then feminism.all feminism has done is degrade women to fashion,pornography,music and what nots. well done feminism well done the great western society! unbelievable!
    Excuse me, what is wrong with women being involved in or caring about fashion or music? The point is that they have the freedom to do this if they wish. If a woman's qualities are reduced to her appearance by the media, that is anti-feminist and something which is repeatedly criticised. And just to be clear, feminists actively condemn the degradation of women in the pornography industry. Your argument is entirely nonsensical.
    All feminism means is equal rights for women. Anyone who doesn't want this is either ignorant or blatantly sexist.
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    it is

    it is symbolic and humiliating

    also, the "tap" is just an interpretation among many - I haven't seen any English translation using "tap" , by the way - could you please indicate one ?

    as an example, a couple of the most common translations (written in times when hitting your wife was not yet considered as being totally unacceptable, of course....)

    Pickthal : Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.


    or

    Shakir: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

    So, a Muslim reads this, and then he goes off and admonishes his "disobedient" wife, then leaves her alone in her sleeping place, and then he beats her

    A tap ?

    In reality : revealing 4:34 was a huge error by God; a blunder for which women are still paying the consequences, 1400 years after.

    4:34: Men are supporters of women because of what GOD has bestowed on the one more than the other, and for what they have to provide (for them) from their resources. So the righteous women are obedient and protect in the absence of their husbands that which GOD ordains to be protected. But those women in whom you fear recalcitrance, admonish them, then if they persist, forsake their beds, and if they still persist, hit them in gentle manner (in no way physically harming). But if they return to obedience do not take punitive measures against them. And surely GOD is the Most High, the Supreme.

    There have been a number of hadiths regarding the status the wife in Islam, Here's one of them...

    Our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The best of you is the one who is best towards his wife, and I am the best of you towards my wives.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 3895; Ibn Maajah, 1977; classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami, 3314)


    What i'm trying to say is that a good educated Muslim man wouldn't beat his wife up, as beating your wife to a pulp isn't allowed in Islam. Its just a shame that culture intervenes and many twisted people try to justify their actions by using Islam.
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    (Original post by I love shopping)
    I'm lost for words. I can't believe that you take matters that could potentially be domestic violence so lightly. The fact that you make an extremely sensitive issue sound so comical just goes to show how disrespectful Islamic beliefs are towards women.

    Under any circumstances, it is NOT acceptable to hit / tap any human being, let alone your life partner. Like I've said before, marriage is supposed to be based on love, trust and mutual respect. This practice defies all three, and may even go on to instill fear and resentment on the woman's part.

    I'm astonished that you, as a woman, think this is okay.

    EDIT: In our society, even hitting pets is unacceptable. The way women are controlled and 'taught discipline' in Islam is, frankly, disgraceful. No adult deserves being treated in this manner.
    Marriage in Islam is practically half your religion, and the affection and love towards your wife is a huge thing in a marriage.

    As for his incurring the wrath of the Most Merciful and disobeying Him, let him listen to what the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Fear Allaah with regard to women, for you have taken them as a trust from Allaah, and intimacy with them has become permissible to you by the word of Allaah.” Narrated by Muslim (1218).

    Is this how you respond to the advice of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who said: “I urge you to treat women well” (narrated by al-Bukhaari (3331) and Muslim (1468))?

    And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The best of you is the one who is best to his wife, and I am the best of you to my wives.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (3895) and Ibn Majaah (1977); classed as aheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

    Like i said before, a good educated Muslim should know the difference between whats right and wrong in Islam, in regards to beating. Its just a shame that many people try to mix culture in and justify beating someone to a pulp and then try to use the name of Islam.



    (Original post by FrigidSymphony)
    It's a symbolic use of force. Are you seriously ok with the idea?
    I'd genuinely like to know the amount of educated, practicing Muslim men that have seen that verse and still beat their wife up? :/
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    (Original post by Issy123)
    4:34: Men are supporters of women because of what GOD has bestowed on the one more than the other, and for what they have to provide (for them) from their resources. So the righteous women are obedient and protect in the absence of their husbands that which GOD ordains to be protected. But those women in whom you fear recalcitrance, admonish them, then if they persist, forsake their beds, and if they still persist, hit them in gentle manner (in no way physically harming). But if they return to obedience do not take punitive measures against them. And surely GOD is the Most High, the Supreme.

    There have been a number of hadiths regarding the status the wife in Islam, Here's one of them...

    Our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The best of you is the one who is best towards his wife, and I am the best of you towards my wives.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 3895; Ibn Maajah, 1977; classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami, 3314)


    What i'm trying to say is that a good educated Muslim man wouldn't beat his wife up, as beating your wife to a pulp isn't allowed in Islam. Its just a shame that culture intervenes and many twisted people try to justify their actions by using Islam.
    Can a wife hit her husband in a "gentle manner"?
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    (Original post by Issy123)
    Marriage in Islam is practically half your religion, and the affection and love towards your wife is a huge thing in a marriage.

    As for his incurring the wrath of the Most Merciful and disobeying Him, let him listen to what the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Fear Allaah with regard to women, for you have taken them as a trust from Allaah, and intimacy with them has become permissible to you by the word of Allaah.” Narrated by Muslim (1218).

    Is this how you respond to the advice of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who said: “I urge you to treat women well” (narrated by al-Bukhaari (3331) and Muslim (1468))?

    And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The best of you is the one who is best to his wife, and I am the best of you to my wives.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (3895) and Ibn Majaah (1977); classed as aheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

    Like i said before, a good educated Muslim should know the difference between whats right and wrong in Islam, in regards to beating. Its just a shame that many people try to mix culture in and justify beating someone to a pulp and then try to use the name of Islam.





    I'd genuinely like to know the amount of educated, practicing Muslim men that have seen that verse and still beat their wife up? :/
    I'm sorry, but no matter how you put it, it still symbolises violence, even if it's just a gentle 'tap'. Maybe you like the idea of being controlled by a man and being inferior to him, but I have self-respect. I am my own person. I'm just as capable of thinking for myself as a man, and I will not have someone else make my decisions for me.
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    (Original post by PandyAndy)
    Can a wife hit her husband in a "gentle manner"?
    according to islam yes, and they should also avoid the face when hitting her. oh, and the children cant watch.
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    hello
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    (Original post by Issy123)
    Marriage in Islam is practically half your religion, and the affection and love towards your wife is a huge thing in a marriage.

    As for his incurring the wrath of the Most Merciful and disobeying Him, let him listen to what the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Fear Allaah with regard to women, for you have taken them as a trust from Allaah, and intimacy with them has become permissible to you by the word of Allaah.” Narrated by Muslim (1218).

    Is this how you respond to the advice of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who said: “I urge you to treat women well” (narrated by al-Bukhaari (3331) and Muslim (1468))?
    "treating women well" is a subjective statement - in the time of the writing of quran this could simply mean feeding and providing a home and money for your wife, as well as giving her a smack when she disobeys you or acts 'unislamically'


    (Original post by Issy123)
    Like i said before, a good educated Muslim should know the difference between whats right and wrong in Islam, in regards to beating. Its just a shame that many people try to mix culture in and justify beating someone to a pulp and then try to use the name of Islam.
    I'd genuinely like to know the amount of educated, practicing Muslim men that have seen that verse and still beat their wife up? :/

    They may have also read the hadeeth that directs muslim men to beat their women when they are disobident, or aishas narration that mohammed hit her when she disobeyed him
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    (Original post by Issy123)
    4:34: hit them in gentle manner (in no way physically harming).
    sorry, but "in a gentle manner" is not included in the Quran. It's just an interpretation/addition by the translator

    the Quran just says : "beat them" or "scourge them"

    when the Quran was "revealed", beating your wife was a normal practice : but now, it has become not OK at all. For this reason, modern translations include "in a gentle manner" or similar embarrassed excuses. Anyway, IMHO, even a "gentle beating" is humiliating and unacceptable

    (Original post by Issy123)
    4What i'm trying to say is that a good educated Muslim man wouldn't beat his wife up, as beating your wife to a pulp isn't allowed in Islam. Its just a shame that culture intervenes and many twisted people try to justify their actions by using Islam.
    the problem is, that including this verse in the Quran has, most likely, caused unspeakable suffering and humiliation for many, many women

    so, it was a huge error to "reveal" this verse. Much better would have been : "and, don't ever hit her, or you'll roast in hellfire"

    Best
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    (Original post by Issy123)
    Marriage in Islam is practically half your religion, and the affection and love towards your wife is a huge thing in a marriage.

    As for his incurring the wrath of the Most Merciful and disobeying Him, let him listen to what the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Fear Allaah with regard to women, for you have taken them as a trust from Allaah, and intimacy with them has become permissible to you by the word of Allaah.” Narrated by Muslim (1218).

    Is this how you respond to the advice of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who said: “I urge you to treat women well” (narrated by al-Bukhaari (3331) and Muslim (1468))?

    And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The best of you is the one who is best to his wife, and I am the best of you to my wives.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (3895) and Ibn Majaah (1977); classed as aheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

    Like i said before, a good educated Muslim should know the difference between whats right and wrong in Islam, in regards to beating. Its just a shame that many people try to mix culture in and justify beating someone to a pulp and then try to use the name of Islam.





    I'd genuinely like to know the amount of educated, practicing Muslim men that have seen that verse and still beat their wife up? :/
    Yep, because the AHA foundation (for example) has ****all to do, right?
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    (Original post by FrigidSymphony)
    Yep, because the AHA foundation (for example) has ****all to do, right?
    what?
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    "treating women well" is a subjective statement - in the time of the writing of quran this could simply mean feeding and providing a home and money for your wife, as well as giving her a smack when she disobeys you or acts 'unislamically'





    They may have also read the hadeeth that directs muslim men to beat their women when they are disobident, or aishas narration that mohammed hit her when she disobeyed him
    "Do not beat the female servants of Allah";

    "Some (women) visited my family complaining about their husbands (beating them). These (husbands) are not the best of you."

    In another Hadith the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) is reported to have said: “How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?”
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    sorry, but "in a gentle manner" is not included in the Quran. It's just an interpretation/addition by the translator

    the Quran just says : "beat them" or "scourge them"

    when the Quran was "revealed", beating your wife was a normal practice : but now, it has become not OK at all. For this reason, modern translations include "in a gentle manner" or similar embarrassed excuses. Anyway, IMHO, even a "gentle beating" is humiliating and unacceptable

    the problem is, that including this verse in the Quran has, most likely, caused unspeakable suffering and humiliation for many, many women

    so, it was a huge error to "reveal" this verse. Much better would have been : "and, don't ever hit her, or you'll roast in hellfire"

    Best

    how can the verse mean both 'beat' and 'scourge'?
    and there have been other Hadith's regarding beating...

    "Do not beat the female servants of Allah";

    "Some (women) visited my family complaining about their husbands (beating them). These (husbands) are not the best of you."

    In another Hadith the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) is reported to have said: “How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?”
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    (Original post by I love shopping)
    I'm sorry, but no matter how you put it, it still symbolises violence, even if it's just a gentle 'tap'. Maybe you like the idea of being controlled by a man and being inferior to him, but I have self-respect. I am my own person. I'm just as capable of thinking for myself as a man, and I will not have someone else make my decisions for me.

    Still don't understand how a 'tap' symbolises violence and no-ones asking you to not make decisions for yourself :s

    'Let there be no compulsion in religion:
    Truth stands out clear from error'
    [Al-Qur'an 2:256]
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    (Original post by PandyAndy)
    Can a wife hit her husband in a "gentle manner"?
    I have no knowledge regarding this.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    really, so where did this idea of punshing female rape victims come from if not from sharia practice lol? Do we do that here?
    Yes?
    Victim-blaming is a huge problem over here. A lot of women get silenced and not listened to because they were 'asking for it'.
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