[lubsjk]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
Read the whole thread

(Notice how I used the word 'whole')

I've yet to find a verse from the Quran.

Learn the difference between Hadith and Quran before making a thread like this.

[.eXe]

(Original post by lubsjk)
I've yet to find a verse from the Quran.

Learn the difference between Hadith and Quran before making a thread like this.

Would these suffice?

Men are managers of the affairs of women because Allah has made the one superior to the other. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 329)

Qur'an (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them [women]"

The share of the male shall be twice that of a female . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 311) (See Sura 4:176.)

The Prophet said, "Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind." (Bukhari)

Another translation of the above verse:
Bukhari (6:301) - "[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence.'"

Narrated 'Imran bin Husain: The Prophet said, "I looked at Paradise and found poor people forming the majority of its inhabitants; and I looked at Hell and saw that the majority of its inhabitants were women." (Bukhari)

Another translation of the above verse:
Bukhari (2:28) - Women comprise the majority of Hell's occupants. This is important because the only women in heaven ever mentioned by Muhammad are the virgins who serve the sexual desires of men. (A weak Hadith, Kanz al-`ummal, 22:10, even suggests that 99% of women go to Hell).

Qur'an (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..."

Definition of tilth: tilth (t lth) n. 1. Cultivation of land
Basically, women are compared to land.

Want any more?

[At peace]

(Original post by Slushxx)
Rather sexist.

Not really. It's the mother who carried the kid for 9 months, give birth to him and feed him. The father does none of this so his rights are just as much as his duties to the child. The mothers duty is tougher so her rights are higher in propotion.

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
with all due respect, sounds like i read it and you didnt

Sweet assumption. I wouldn't call you ignorant if I didn't knew myself. Like I said, when I get time I'll get back to it. I'm a girl [with feminist tendencies], these things I've studied because they relate to me. You think I'd be happy if things were the way you put them? You are "dreaming".

4:34. 'Men are in charge of (or overseers of - qawwamuna) women

Thank you for getting me the verse number, now let's discuss it:

Verse begins with “men are qawwamun over women”; Arabic word qawwamun is mentioned here. The root of the word qawwamun (plural of qawwam), is qama which means “to stand or to make something stand or to establish something”. The characteristic of qawaamun in Quran is characterized by fairness. Thus in 4:134 and 5:8 Quran states:
“O you who believe! Be qawwamin with fairness…”
“O you who believe! Be qawwamin for God as witnesses to fairness…”

Therefore to qawwam over something or someone is to guard, maintain or take care of that something or someone in a proper and fair manner. In this passage Quran glorifies women and tells men to look after them in fair manner.

Where does the quran say you are allowed to drive?

*Smile* Ignorance or arrogance, which one are you trying to display here? Perhaps blind hate? Is the Qur'an the only thing that makes things permissible or impermissible?

They are ruled more by islam then we are here. but here if you are raped, we lock up the attacker based on your evidence In afganistan under sharia, you would be forced to marry your attacker ( assuming that at 4 least male witnesses could be found to bring charges under islamic law)

lol. You are stoned if you rape a girl!

Learn to separate Islam from Afghan-Arab cultures. If you find that legislated in Qur'an and Hadeeth, come talk to me. I'm not discussing what cavemen in Afghanistan do.

[At peace]

(Original post by akj08)
In my opinion this is degrading to women. Why does the husband have to be higher than the wife to have a stable family? Why could it not be just as stable with two equal heads? Most Westernised families seem to manage this perfectly well.

Is not.

Can a country or a department have two heads?

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
Nowhere in the quran does it mention the word "queen" thats you trying to put your own spin to make it sound better.

Qur'an mentions the story of Queen Sulaikha in the highest of terms. Like I said, don't talk if you don't know.

[At peace]

later - 'As for those women on whose part you fear rebellion (nushuz),

Verse continues on to say “As for those women on whose part you fear nushuz…”, the word nushuz literally means “rebellion”. But rebellion against whom and in what sense? We should certainly not think of this in terms the rebellion of the ruled against a ruler in a sultanate or dictatorship and conclude that it consists of the wife disobeying some of the husband’s commands. This is because in verse 4:128 (same Surah), the word nushuz is used too: “If a woman fears nushuz on her husband’s part…” (Surah nisa 4:128). So a wife can fear nushuz on husband’s part also. It cannot therefore be understood in terms of the ruler-ruled relationship. To correctly understand the meaning of the word, it must be noted that both in the verse under consideration and in verse 128 the reference to nushuz is followed by a reference to the break-up of the marriage (as seen in verse 4:35, 4:130). If this context is kept in mind, then it becomes evident that nushuz means the type of behavior on the part of the husband or the wife, which is so disturbing for the other that their living together becomes difficult.

admonish them and banish them to beds apart, (and last) beat (adribu) them'

Quran goes unto mention that men are allowed to use “dharb“. This word has been translated, as beating as there are verses in Quran such as 2:60, 61, 73, 8:12, 50, 7:160 etc, where the word does mean smite or strike. However in many other Quranic passage the word dharb DOES have other meanings. The word can mean constructing or coining something such as coining mathal or similitude as demonstrated in 14:24, 16:75-76, 30:28, 36:27 etc. In 2:60 the word is also used to separate two things. In 20:77 it is used of the splitting of the sea to make a way for the children of Israel to escape and in 57:13 it is used of making a wall to separate the two groups of people in the hereafter. Leaving, withdrawing or taking away is the meaning in 43:5. In 13:17 the word is used for separating truth and falsehood. The word can also mean campaigning or travelling in the land, e.g., for the purpose of trade (2:273, 73:20).

[. . .]

Do people not get bored of the same argument/debate again and again and again.

[sabragefoot]

We in Islam do not necessarily degrade our women but rather treat them in a royal manner. Let me ask you a question:

1) A wrapped up sweet
2) An unwrapped sweet

I drop them both on the sandy floor, which one would you take? (obviously the wrapped up one) so...this is how we treat our women.

[.eXe]

(Original post by sabragefoot)
We in Islam do not necessarily degrade our women but rather treat them in a royal manner. Let me ask you a question:

1) A wrapped up sweet
2) An unwrapped sweet

I drop them both on the sandy floor, which one would you take? (obviously the wrapped up one) so...this is how we treat our women.

Did you just make an account to post this...?

I've seen this argument used before by people who advocate for hijabs. It's quite infantile to compare a human being to a piece of candy and pass it off like some great logical argument.

Do you realize that in your comparison, you compared a muslim woman (human being) to a piece of candy (inanimate object)

So are you saying that you treat your women like inanimate objects? Because that's exactly what you analogy sounds like...

[lubsjk]

(Original post by .eXe)
Would these suffice?

Men are managers of the affairs of women because Allah has made the one superior to the other. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 329)

Qur'an (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them [women]"

The share of the male shall be twice that of a female . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 311) (See Sura 4:176.)

The Prophet said, "Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind." (Bukhari)

Another translation of the above verse:
Bukhari (6:301) - "[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence.'"

Narrated 'Imran bin Husain: The Prophet said, "I looked at Paradise and found poor people forming the majority of its inhabitants; and I looked at Hell and saw that the majority of its inhabitants were women." (Bukhari)

Another translation of the above verse:
Bukhari (2:28) - Women comprise the majority of Hell's occupants. This is important because the only women in heaven ever mentioned by Muhammad are the virgins who serve the sexual desires of men. (A weak Hadith, Kanz al-`ummal, 22:10, even suggests that 99% of women go to Hell).

Qur'an (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..."

Definition of tilth: tilth (t lth) n. 1. Cultivation of land
Basically, women are compared to land.

Want any more?

Yes. I want more bc you gave me a bunch of Hadiths and mistranslated verses.


Keep going.

[Petro_99]

oh look another one of these threads.... so exciting isnt it? NOO

[ThatPerson]

(Original post by At peace)


Muslim:
Nothing because that is not an Islamic concept. So what is your view on Islamic concept that a father is equal to 1/4th of the mother?

This isn't something you should be bragging about. If anything it says that Islam is being inequal and valuing women more highly than men. I like how you've set out to defend your religion against a claim on inequality and then after disproving it, admit that it is inequal.

Women and Men are both equal and should have equal rights and be seen as equally important, nothing more, nothing less.

[.eXe]

(Original post by lubsjk)
Yes. I want more bc you gave me a bunch of Hadiths and mistranslated verses.


Keep going.

What's wrong with he hadiths? I cited Bukhari several times and that hadith is not regarded as inaccurate. Also, the second one was from the Quran.

Even assuming you ignore all the hadiths, you cannot ignore that Quran verse.

So there you have it...proof that Islam considers women of lower status than men.

I've given you what you wanted. Now respond to the allegations.

This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my Galaxy Nexus

[.eXe]

(Original post by lubsjk)
Yes. I want more bc you gave me a bunch of Hadiths and mistranslated verses.


Keep going.

Ps- I am fluent in Arabic and those weren't mis-translated.

Just fyi.

-[Posted via mobile app]-

[Happydude]

(Original post by .eXe)
Did you just make an account to post this...?

I've seen this argument used before by people who advocate for hijabs. It's quite infantile to compare a human being to a piece of candy and pass it off like some great logical argument.

Do you realize that in your comparison, you compared a muslim woman (human being) to a piece of candy (inanimate object)

So are you saying that you treat your women like inanimate objects? Because that's exactly what you analogy sounds like...

I'd join in this argument, but it looks like .eXe is doing a good job of arguing the corner I would take.

[Alpharius]

Another thread that if made into audio, would equate to white noise.

For the love of your damn gods, stop boring the rest of us with this crap. I don't care what your books say, its how they are interpreted and acted on that worries me.

Like pretty much any sticky issue with religion (violence, freedom of speech, womens rights...) you can use religious texts to justify almost anything. To disagree with that is to have your head buried very deeply into the sand. Accept the fact that people use the book/'s you hold dear to oppress women (among other things, but thats a different story).

[TheGrinningSkull]

(Original post by Slushxx)
Rather sexist.

Maybe women giving birth is sexist, the fact that they are the ones who would breastfeed is sexist.

[TheGrinningSkull]

(Original post by ThatPerson)
This isn't something you should be bragging about. If anything it says that Islam is being inequal and valuing women more highly than men. I like how you've set out to defend your religion against a claim on inequality and then after disproving it, admit that it is inequal.

Women and Men are both equal and should have equal rights and be seen as equally important, nothing more, nothing less.

Of course they have equal rights. It's like saying a doctor and a farmer do not have equal rights, why are all the people not getting the same pay? Why do they have different skills and responsibilities?

[kunoichi]

(Original post by digistar_100)
Men are overseers of women yes but how does that make them degrading? In fact its such an honour for a woman to be protected by a man because its the natural order of things. The man has the obligation to treat his wife like a queen, only islamaphobes who watch the media reproduce the old ''honour killing'' stories will fall into this trap that think women are slaves. How many cases of domestic violence and divorce are encounctered in Britain compared to those from Muslim households? And from the rare ones that do occur, they will be highlighted by the media in an attempt to demonize Islam. Only in western upbringing your mentally brainwashed into thinking that men and women are equal in all aspects of life wheras its clearly not the case.

Its degrading because in the modern world we are all capable of looking after and protecting ourselves. We have always been capable, men just havent let us.
And no domestic violence in islamic households? Are you actually taking the piss? All you need to do is go on the everyday issues thread and there is a new girl every week saying she is from a muslim family, her father wants her to marry this guy or that guy, she doesnt want to and they have threatened her with violence. And er honour killings?

[kunoichi]

(Original post by sabragefoot)
We in Islam do not necessarily degrade our women but rather treat them in a royal manner. Let me ask you a question:

1) A wrapped up sweet
2) An unwrapped sweet

I drop them both on the sandy floor, which one would you take? (obviously the wrapped up one) so...this is how we treat our women.

Women arent sweets or inanimate objects

[kunoichi]

(Original post by zubz91)
The Prophet Mohammed PBUH in his last Sermon before he passed away, mentioned women and said.

"O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under God's trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste"

and you say Islam degrades women

I would say a husband being able to have 4 wives but his wife having to be chaste pretty disrespectful and degrading yes.