[High VOLTAGE]

(Original post by 2ndClass)
Non of this is relavent OP, all you need to point out is that more women than men convert to Islam, that's it. And most of them are conspicuously westernised.

Others can wail and cry about the religion's creed, call it this and that, but it doesn't change anything in the end.

keep it movin'

And this is coming from an agnostic.

Exactly you make a good point , and why would western women with a choice want to become Muslim if, as the media and anti-Islam types say, it oppresses women?

[DontJudge]

(Original post by .eXe)
x

The Bible degrades motherhood, marriage,
and women's reproductive functions:

Matthew 24:19

"[woe] unto them that are with child"
Luke 2:22

Mary is unclean after birth of Jesus
14:26

You cannot be Jesus's disciple unless you
hate your mother, father, and family

20:34-35

Better chance to get to heaven if you don't marry
I Corinthians
11:3-15

Man is the head of the woman; only man
is in the image and glory of God
14:24-35

Women, keep in silence; may only learn from husbands
Ephesians 5:22-33

"Wives, submit..."
Colossians 3:18

More "Wives, submit yourselves..."

I Timothy 2:9

Women adorn yourselves in shamefacedness

2:11-14

Women should learn in silence in all subjection;
Eve was sinful, Adam blameless

2:15
Ephesians 5:22 33

Women will not die in childbirth if they
"continue in faith, charity and holiness"

I Peter 3:17

Women should talk to husbands in fear

Genesis 2:22

Woman created from Adam's rib

3:16

"In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children."

Leviticus 12:1-4

Women who have sons are unclean 7 days

12:4-7

Women who have daughters are unclean 14 days

15:19-23

Menstrual periods are unclean

Numbers 5:13-31

Unpassable adulteress test encourages
jealousy and cruelty

31:17-35

"Virgins" are war booty

Deuteronomy
22:13-21


Bride who is not virgin must be stoned to death

22:28

Unmarried rape victim must marry her rapist

24:1

Men can divorce women on the spot

28:11-12

Delicate women will be forced to eat their children

I Samuel 21:4-5

Men are holy if they stay away from women

Job 14:1-4

"Who can bring a clean thing out of
an unclean [woman]? not one"

Psalm 51:5

"In sin did my mother conceive me"

Isaiah 13:16

"their wives [shall be] ravished"

Hosea 13:16

"Their infants shall be dashed in pieces and
their women with child shall be ripped up."

[rupertj]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
really, so where did this idea of punshing female rape victims come from if not from sharia practice lol? Do we do that here?

Not from Islam. Given that you have used Afghanistan as an example - presumably under Afghanistan under Taleban control - let's have a look at the Hanafi verdict on rape victims i.e. the one which they claim to adopt. Note that the punishment for a rapist under Hanafi law is Hudud punishment (fixed number of lashings) and one year's banishment/imprisonment for an unmarried rapist, and death for a married rapist.

(Original post by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zina)
... Imam Abu Hanifa was firm in rejecting the use of extramarital pregnancy as an evidence of zina. Basing his judgment on clear injunctions from the Qur'an and sunnah, he considered pregnancy as mere circumstantial evidence that does not constitute sufficient proof of zina. In his view, the judge has to ask the woman being tried for such accusation to defend herself. If she claims that she was raped, or forced into a sexual relationship, or that she had intercourse with a man to whom she thought she was married, then she would not be liable for hadd punishment.
Abu Hanifa even went so far in his reasoning as to state that an unmarried pregnant woman who claims that she was raped or married does not have to provide clear evidence of her rape or marriage. Her word alone suffices....

Also note that the Taleban have denied most of the horrific crimes against women that have been levelled against them, including the one in question, which seems strange considering that they tend to advertise their actions to the whole word using the internet. In any case, if they are indeed guilty of these crimes, then they are acting directly in contradiction to the Hanafi law which they claim to practice.

[akj08]

(Original post by At peace)
Is not.

Can a country or a department have two heads?

A country or department head does not have to be a man. If you were suggesting that it is cultural/religious/whatever to have someone (determined by factors irrelevant of gender) as the head of the family, then I might not agree with it, but I wouldn't call that degrading to women. The fact that it is always the husband who is 'higher' does make it degrading.

[FrigidSymphony]

You know what? Killing Jews had nothing to do with Nazism. After all, the "official" (i.e. interpreted by nazi sympathetic revisionist fascists themselves) never says anything about starting a holocaust, it's all about national socialist economic policies, industry building and lebensraum. See? Nazism doesn't advocate killing jews and therefore cannot be blamed for the holocaust.

EDIT: Besides, no one ever talks about the millions more killed by Stalin and therefore communism! That was much worse than the nazis! See? We're not so bad! In fact, we're absolutely fine and everyone should respect my right to want special treatment for being a nazi.

[lubsjk]

(Original post by .eXe)
What's wrong with he hadiths? I cited Bukhari several times and that hadith is not regarded as inaccurate. Also, the second one was from the Quran.

Even assuming you ignore all the hadiths, you cannot ignore that Quran verse.

So there you have it...proof that Islam considers women of lower status than men.

I've given you what you wanted. Now respond to the allegations.

This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my Galaxy Nexus

Hadiths were compiled over two hundred years after the final prophet died by fellow human beings. They got it from those who were closest to the prophet, despite being told that there were fakes around him.
In other words, hadiths are not accurate. It is simply a few men's interpretation of the Quran. People today use the hadiths because they want everything spoon fed to them.
Everyone should create their own interpretation

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by lubsjk)
Hadiths were compiled over two hundred years after the final prophet died by fellow human beings. They got it from those who were closest to the prophet, despite being told that there were fakes around him.
In other words, hadiths are not accurate. It is simply a few men's interpretation of the Quran. People today use the hadiths because they want everything spoon fed to them.
Everyone should create their own interpretation

So my interpretation of Islam, that it demeans women, is correct as well? I knew it!

[Haagen-Dazs]

(Original post by At peace)
Verse continues on to say “As for those women on whose part you fear nushuz…”, the word nushuz literally means “rebellion”. But rebellion against whom and in what sense? We should certainly not think of this in terms the rebellion of the ruled against a ruler in a sultanate or dictatorship and conclude that it consists of the wife disobeying some of the husband’s commands. This is because in verse 4:128 (same Surah), the word nushuz is used too: “If a woman fears nushuz on her husband’s part…” (Surah nisa 4:128). So a wife can fear nushuz on husband’s part also. It cannot therefore be understood in terms of the ruler-ruled relationship. To correctly understand the meaning of the word, it must be noted that both in the verse under consideration and in verse 128 the reference to nushuz is followed by a reference to the break-up of the marriage (as seen in verse 4:35, 4:130). If this context is kept in mind, then it becomes evident that nushuz means the type of behavior on the part of the husband or the wife, which is so disturbing for the other that their living together becomes difficult.


Quran goes unto mention that men are allowed to use “dharb“. This word has been translated, as beating as there are verses in Quran such as 2:60, 61, 73, 8:12, 50, 7:160 etc, where the word does mean smite or strike. However in many other Quranic passage the word dharb DOES have other meanings. The word can mean constructing or coining something such as coining mathal or similitude as demonstrated in 14:24, 16:75-76, 30:28, 36:27 etc. In 2:60 the word is also used to separate two things. In 20:77 it is used of the splitting of the sea to make a way for the children of Israel to escape and in 57:13 it is used of making a wall to separate the two groups of people in the hereafter. Leaving, withdrawing or taking away is the meaning in 43:5. In 13:17 the word is used for separating truth and falsehood. The word can also mean campaigning or travelling in the land, e.g., for the purpose of trade (2:273, 73:20).

Question: For the wives who fear rebellion on the part of the husband, what does the Qur'an suggest they do? It is of course very clear on what the husband should do if he fear rebellion on the part of the wife...

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by High VOLTAGE)
Exactly you make a good point , and why would western women with a choice want to become Muslim if, as the media and anti-Islam types say, it oppresses women?

Because many women struggle with their femininity and identity in a complex world dominated by social norms and shaped by cultural directives and confuse oppression and subjugation for security and comfort? It's easier to live if you "know your place", so to speak, and people who struggle with their identities may find this an easy way out. Same reason anyone converts to a religion or joins a cult, it tells you it's ok to not have to think and be content, nay, proud! of your ignorance.

Doesn't make it any better.

[mariachi]

(Original post by lubsjk)
hadiths are not accurate. It is simply a few men's interpretation of the Quran. People today use the hadiths because they want everything spoon fed to them.
Everyone should create their own interpretation

I think that very few Muslims would agree with that

basically, only the so-called "Submitters" (or Quran-only Muslims)

however, most Muslims will tell you that "Submitters" are not really Muslims, and that ahadith (and especially "sahih" -authentic- ahadith) are an essential part of Islam

[randomguy786]

[.eXe]

(Original post by lubsjk)
Everyone should create their own interpretation

Really? So I am free to create my own interpretation?

[mariachi]

(Original post by DontJudge)
The Bible degrades motherhood, marriage,
and women's reproductive functions:

Matthew 24:19

"[woe] unto them that are with child" etc etc

this is a copy-pasted list of assorted snippets, bits and pieces, taken from some atheist website such as http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/bileffr.htm

interestingly, you will find the same list also copy-pasted on quite a few dawah (Islamic propaganda) webforums

as if showing that Christian scripture can be just as bad would somehow make a case for Islam...

[mariachi]

(Original post by At peace)

Can a country or a department have two heads?

of course it can

Sparta was ruled by two Kings, the Roman Republic by two consuls, the present-day Swiss Federation even by a seven-head Federal council...

"The Federal Council[1] is the seven-member executive council which constitutes the federal government of Switzerland and serves as the Swiss collective head of state".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Federal_Council

[...mo...]

Islam treats women equitably. its other religions with problems. for example is banning a women from the Olympics because she wants to cover herself and be modest. that kind of action would be degrading.

[.eXe]

(Original post by ...mo...)
Islam treats women equitably. its other religions with problems. for example is banning a women from the Olympics because she wants to cover herself and be modest. that kind of action would be degrading.

Which religion banned a women from competing in sports?
Which religion forces women to cover their heads?

[filmore]

(Original post by ...mo...)
Islam treats women equitably. its other religions with problems. for example is banning a women from the Olympics because she wants to cover herself and be modest. that kind of action would be degrading.

Olympics is not a religion. However rules of Islam do create obstacles for women's participation in mass sporting events. Perhaps if a woman wants to play volleyball at the Olympics she should be allowed to? Surely Islam is not going to collapse because of that?

[...mo...]

please use SAW or PBUH after the name of the blessed prophet SAW

thank you

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by ...mo...)
please use SAW or PBUH after the name of the blessed prophet SAW

thank you

Don't ever quote me without adding "the always right and unbelievably awesome".

Keep your delusions to yourself, but don't expect anyone else to give two ****s about them.

[Kravez]

Why do you even give a ****? Just live your own life.