[BlueSparkleDust]

(Original post by At peace)
This is one BIG thing people hold against Islam. This is one of the, let's say, top ten reasons for people hating Islam. They believe Islam puts the women down. [And I don't even mean the "hijab oppression" blah blah blah by it].

Why? My guess is hate and ignorance coupled with arrogance in some cases. This is how it usually goes (it went something similar to this with me last night)

Non Muslim:
Islam insults women.

Muslim:
No it doesn't.

Non Muslim:
Does so. What is your view on the Islamic concept that a woman is equal to that of a half a man?

Muslim:
Nothing because that is not an Islamic concept. So what is your view on Islamic concept that a father is equal to 1/4th of the mother?

Then the topic is changed (in my case to intelligence and faith and Qur'an), still sticking to Islam insults women and that they are a degree lower than men

----------------------------------------------------------------------
To answer the question some would have:

Q: What is your view on the Islamic concept that a woman is equal to that of a half a man?

It's a husband who is a degree higher than the wife just to have a stable system family with a head of the house who has more responsibility than the others. And this is valid "only" for the husband and wife, not just "any" man-woman.

Society has degraded women for almost ever!!! Yeah things might have improved within the last century but that took a VERY long time, so I hate that hypocritical excuse for Islamic hate

[.eXe]

(Original post by ...mo...)
please use SAW or PBUH after the name of the blessed prophet SAW

thank you

What does SAW mean? And why should people who don't believe mohammad was a prophet use saw and pbuh and all that?

[...mo...]

(Original post by filmore)
Olympics is not a religion. However rules of Islam do create obstacles for women's participation in mass sporting events. Perhaps if a woman wants to play volleyball at the Olympics she should be allowed to? Surely Islam is not going to collapse because of that?

but the women are Muslims first and athletes second. Islam allows sports for both men and w women. also there are not obstacles created by Islam but reminds women about rules. is it beer to remind a child with wet hands not to go towards a socket or forbid the child not to go. the rules have been there for centuries upon centuries. they have been Muslims for every day for years so why should they change for something that only comes once every 4year?
also for your last point. of course Islam will continue to grow.remember it is the works fastest religion for a reason.

[Naziiwazii786]

Can I just say that it is absolutely disgusting that in such a multicultural society that we currently live in people feel the need to question and attack religious beliefs. If you do not agree with a belief then that is perfectly fine you are not a believer and Muslims would not expect you to believe but to degrade and disrespect the names of key figures in Islam is something that not only Muslims but any moral individual would agree is wrong. If you do not agree with something that's your opinion keep it to yourself and if you do want to ask, ask respectfully. It's a shame that you live in a multi-cultural society but you do not yet understand to respect the beliefs and ways of life that others have. Islam does not promote any sort of immoral actions and the conduct in some Islamic societies is not the result of religion it's due to the culture. Islam does not degrade women it is the values within certain cultures and societies which may do so.

[ste_mc_efc]

women are degraded in most societies, just islamic ones are more brazen about it.

[Haagen-Dazs]

(Original post by Naziiwazii786)
Can I just say that it is absolutely disgusting that in such a multicultural society that we currently live in people feel the need to question and attack religious beliefs. If you do not agree with a belief then that is perfectly fine you are not a believer and Muslims would not expect you to believe but to degrade and disrespect the names of key figures in Islam is something that not only Muslims but any moral individual would agree is wrong. If you do not agree with something that's your opinion keep it to yourself and if you do want to ask, ask respectfully. It's a shame that you live in a multi-cultural society but you do not yet understand to respect the beliefs and ways of life that others have. Islam does not promote any sort of immoral actions and the conduct in some Islamic societies is not the result of religion it's due to the culture. Islam does not degrade women it is the values within certain cultures and societies which may do so.

I agree that in a multicultural society others' beliefs should not be rudely attacked. But in such a society one can have the view that the religion degrades women, without being rude about it.

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by Naziiwazii786)
Can I just say that it is absolutely disgusting that in such a multicultural society that we currently live in people feel the need to question and attack religious beliefs. If you do not agree with a belief then that is perfectly fine you are not a believer and Muslims would not expect you to believe but to degrade and disrespect the names of key figures in Islam is something that not only Muslims but any moral individual would agree is wrong. If you do not agree with something that's your opinion keep it to yourself and if you do want to ask, ask respectfully. It's a shame that you live in a multi-cultural society but you do not yet understand to respect the beliefs and ways of life that others have. Islam does not promote any sort of immoral actions and the conduct in some Islamic societies is not the result of religion it's due to the culture. Islam does not degrade women it is the values within certain cultures and societies which may do so.

I find it disgusting that in a modern, progressive society we still need to have basic debates about human rights.

[Naziiwazii786]

I completely agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's fine if you wish to believe that, but it is vital that we remember that religion is a big part of some people and to attack it in a disrespectful way is no way to portray your views. No need for the rude comments. Each to their own, everyone has their own views and opinions, some may be more absolutist however all should be respected. I don't see why there is such a emphasis on religion in many of these threads, we are all human and there are many humanistic issues which require more global attention such as mass poverty and corruption. Rather than attacking religion, people should challenge other fundamental issues in the world.

[Coke1]

(Original post by CosmicVengeance)
Westernised families also have a higher divorce rate not to mention asian/middle eastern families tend to be 2/3 larger, you CANT compare, moreover western families = indivualistic while eastern = Collective


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

Don't be a hypocrite.
Yes divorce rates are higher, but mainly because Muslim women are too scared to divorce due to pressure from family and their culture.

Nothing to be proud of, is it?

[At peace]

(Original post by akj08)
A country or department head does not have to be a man. If you were suggesting that it is cultural/religious/whatever to have someone (determined by factors irrelevant of gender) as the head of the family, then I might not agree with it, but I wouldn't call that degrading to women. The fact that it is always the husband who is 'higher' does make it degrading.

But it has to be one, mostly.

He's higher to have more responsibility. He's to worry about providing the food, shelter, protection, money, education, health etc. This let's the women focus on her children who needs her more than him. It's more degrading that she has to work like a servant for him and the kids and that Mr. sits around doing nothing like The Queen. He's higher "only" because of his responsibility.

He's not really higher for long, once the kids come, she's higher than him. They do her job first and his later, at least three times later.

[At peace]

(Original post by Haagen-Dazs)
Question: For the wives who fear rebellion on the part of the husband, what does the Qur'an suggest they do? It is of course very clear on what the husband should do if he fear rebellion on the part of the wife...

I'm not well versed in the Qur'an so I don't know. Btw good Question. I'll ask the learned, when I find an answer, I'll let you know.

One thing I know I can do if he turns out to be a maniac. Leave him and find myself a better person.

[Haagen-Dazs]

(Original post by Naziiwazii786)
I completely agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's fine if you wish to believe that, but it is vital that we remember that religion is a big part of some people and to attack it in a disrespectful way is no way to portray your views. No need for the rude comments. Each to their own, everyone has their own views and opinions, some may be more absolutist however all should be respected. I don't see why there is such a emphasis on religion in many of these threads, we are all human and there are many humanistic issues which require more global attention such as mass poverty and corruption. Rather than attacking religion, people should challenge other fundamental issues in the world.

Religion is not being attacked, it is being questioned. Unfortunately, it is never satisfyingly defended. The Qur'anic verse 4:34 on beating your rebellious wife is degrading in an obvious way, especially as there is no accompanying information for wives with rebellious husbands. I thought the Qur'an was written for everybody. Indeed, when is beating anyone a praiseworthy action? I ask these questions sincerely, no disrespect. I merely wish to understand how this can be (though I think it cannot) possibly even begin to be justified.

[Haagen-Dazs]

(Original post by At peace)
I'm not well versed in the Qur'an so I don't know. Btw good Question. I'll ask the learned, when I find an answer, I'll let you know.

One thing I know I can do if he turns out to be a maniac. Leave him and find myself a better person.

Thanks. Though I doubt you will find a satisfactory answer. This has been one of my many quandaries with Islam, and I have asked many.

Secondly, if you are not well-versed in THE holy book of your religion, how can you reasonably say that you have understood what is about and thus consider it worthy of being followed? This has also been one of my problems with muslims, indeed people of other religions.

Thirdly, I thought for a divorce the man had to state 'I divorce you' three times. Merely leaving him would probably paint you badly, especially in societies where Islam tends to be practiced.

[High VOLTAGE]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
Because many women struggle with their femininity and identity in a complex world dominated by social norms and shaped by cultural directives and confuse oppression and subjugation for security and comfort? It's easier to live if you "know your place", so to speak, and people who struggle with their identities may find this an easy way out. Same reason anyone converts to a religion or joins a cult, it tells you it's ok to not have to think and be content, nay, proud! of your ignorance.

Doesn't make it any better.

I'm talking about women living in England who can wear what they like, drink, smoke and have as many sexual partners as they want. They are free to do as they please, so why would they choose something which is supposedly oppressive?

[.eXe]

(Original post by At peace)
I'm not well versed in the Qur'an so I don't know. Btw good Question. I'll ask the learned, when I find an answer, I'll let you know.

One thing I know I can do if he turns out to be a maniac. Leave him and find myself a better person.

But often, the women are (at least in their culture) bound to their husbands. I mean, divorce is still seen as a horrible thing in many mainstream communities. What can the wife do then?

[Naziiwazii786]

'Frigid Symphony'- We don't 'NEED' to have debates about anything but people wish to cause unrest about things that they do not have much knowledge about. If you wanted you could question but not be rude but I guess your nature is just so that you feel the need to degrade others' beliefs. Islam does not compromise human rights if you did some research you may realise, far greater human rights are being compromised without the interference of anything to do with any religion.

[Naziiwazii786]

Also, I find it pretty odd that this thread is specific to women being degraded in 'Islam' which clearly shows to me the specific attack on one religion. Other religions also quote in holy books of "stoning" a child who does obey his parents. You say you are not attacking a certain religion then why specifically mention one. Clear discrimination.

[Haagen-Dazs]

(Original post by SAF1234)
I think you will find that there is. It is common for the male in a species to be the stronger sex. Even in humans you cannot disregard the fact that males are generally the stronger sex as it is their role to provide for the family , in the olden days by hunting but regardless, in evolutionary terms the male is built to be a protector . You can google many examples. Not only that but in Islam men are taught to respect and care for women . In the west this thing about sexual equality is very subjective , you will see a women demanding equal rights for pay but when she is asked to pay half her share at dinner. Suddenly the male is not a gentleman eh?
Plus in islam it is usually compared to a husband and wife as someone stated before not any man and women . A mother is given more respect than the father as she is regarded correctly as having a larger influence on the upbringing of the offspring .


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

Surely this is all rather outdated however? Many women now are able to provide for their families in ways which used to be seen as male - earning a salary etc. Physical strength has the determinant of leadership is a rather antiquated notion. We no longer hunt - at least not directly. Moreover, I could equally claim that the female is meant to be the protector...when it comes to offspring, I think both genders play that role. Why can't you have two equal partners, raising their children? Is that such a ridiculous notion?

PS: I demand equal rights for pay and I also pay my way at dinner. Sweeping generalisations aren't fact.

[Haagen-Dazs]

(Original post by Naziiwazii786)
Also, I find it pretty odd that this thread is specific to women being degraded in 'Islam' which clearly shows to me the specific attack on one religion. Other religions also quote in holy books of "stoning" a child who does obey his parents. You say you are not attacking a certain religion then why specifically mention one. Clear discrimination.

Well we are discussing Islam in this thread. Other religions also have their problems and I question them relentlessly too. But you can't shift the burden of explanation by simply stating that 'other religions have violent practices too'.

[kaypc]

i think it states they are equal but have different roles in life, that's what i learnt in RE. we debated this for weeks and decided that because many Muslim countries have been patriarchal, its the culture that makes women seem less important not the actual quaran.