[Perseveranze]

I feel it's very disrespectful to not even mention the millions of victims caused by the invasion of two nations through an ongoing 10+ year unjust war.

7/7 is just an average day in Iraq/Afghanistan due to British and other foreign troops.

[Ice Constricter]

(Original post by Stefan1991)
What about the dead civilians of Iraq or Afghanistan? I didn't see any montage dedicated to them.

Why just stop at that? What about the dead civilians of Pakistan and Nigeria and Norway and and.......

I'm sure you see my point.

[YMLT]

I'm not fussed about the US cutting it, because out of the whole ceremony I think that was probably the most 'personal' British bit. Sure, it's good to pay your respect to people, but I think it would've just gone completely over the heads of many international viewers- that bit, in particular, was for the British viewers.

You can't really compare it to 9/11 as that was a much, much bigger and more international tragedy.

[dj1015]

(Original post by rmhumphries)
Its about being respectful, and not being hypocrites.

In the real world.... yes it exists! Money trounces all. I don't read about any Americans been upset about it the format they where shown. TBH, if someone saved me the trauma of watching Adele, I wouldn't complain either. The only people that seem to be is a leftie newspaper, which says it all really.

[cl_steele]

(Original post by YMLT)
I'm not fussed about the US cutting it, because out of the whole ceremony I think that was probably the most 'personal' British bit. Sure, it's good to pay your respect to people, but I think it would've just gone completely over the heads of many international viewers- that bit, in particular, was for the British viewers.

You can't really compare it to 9/11 as that was a much, much bigger and more international tragedy.

Its more the principle, any attack like those are equally terrible, irrespective of the numbers.

[Nick100]

(Original post by thecookiemonster)
how about no imperialism at all?

How exactly does one stop imperialists without a powerful and mobile military? The word "imperialist" has of course been bastardized like the word Fascist. If America were imperialist it could have taken over the entire world in the 1940s; no one was really in a position to stop it.

The British Empire covered a quarter of the land area of the Earth. The "American Empire" at its greatest extent consisted of Cuba, the Philippines, and some Pacific islands.

It's not about caring, it's about being culturally and socially aware of other countries and not thinking that America is the best thing on earth, which many Americans do.

We should be grateful? Do you know how many times America has stuck its nose into other countries' affairs when they're not wanted for their own economic benefit?

A lot of the interventions were against the USSR - a country which had a far worse agenda. America's interventions in Europe, Korea, Vietnam and the Middle East were all to prevent expansions of Soviet power.

Complete rubbish. America only came into ww1 near the end, when the tide was already turning against the Germans. Again, the same in ww2, America began helping out in Europe once Britain and Russia had started to turn the tide against Germany. Yes we may have taken longer to finish the war and may have suffered more casualties if America hadn't got involved, but it's unlikely that we would have lost.

On the contrary, Britain and France were becoming exhausted and the Russian Empire had collapsed. The central powers might have been able to keep going long enough to defeat France had America not intervened. Had they not joined World War II Japan would not have been defeated, and the Soviets might have made it all the way to the English channel. Britain wouldn't have lost, but many others would have.

It's fair? You do realise that many people die in America because they can't afford healthcare? And we don't get it for free in England, we pay for it through our taxes.

That isn't actually true; hospitals cannot reject someone for financial reasons. The number of free-riders is a contributing factor to healthcare costs.

Bitter? Why would anyone be bitter over America? Literally one of the worst western countries that exists.

Aside from all the other western countries which have done much worse things over the course of their history; like Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden, Austria, Japan, Turkey and perhaps a few others that I can't think of off the top of my head. And aside from all the western countries which are poorer than America. And aside from all the western countries less advanced, less free, etc.

[gagaslilmonsteruk]

(Original post by Cyclone33)
So that was why Michael Phelps interview clip was shown? I thought it was an odd addition.

I'm not sure if it can be accessed outside the UK but the entire ceremony (that was broadcast in the UK) should be on www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer

[rmhumphries]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
I feel it's very disrespectful to not even mention the millions of victims caused by the invasion of two nations through an ongoing 10+ year unjust war.

7/7 is just an average day in Iraq/Afghanistan due to British and other foreign troops.

Source for either millions of civilian deaths or 55/civilians per day dying?

(Original post by dj1015)
In the real world.... yes it exists! Money trounces all. I don't read about any Americans been upset about it the format they where shown. TBH, if someone saved me the trauma of watching Adele, I wouldn't complain either. The only people that seem to be is a leftie newspaper, which says it all really.

True, but if Americans were hosting the Olympics, and they had a tribute to 9/11, or another terrorist attack in the USA, and then the UK stream cut it out, while most UK people wouldn't be too upset, the Americans would be.

(Original post by gagaslilmonsteruk)
I'm not sure if it can be accessed outside the UK but the entire ceremony (that was broadcast in the UK) should be on www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer

iplayer is UK only. (For one reason, BBC Worldwide has advertisement, BBC UK (including iplayer) doesn't.

[Perseveranze]

(Original post by rmhumphries)
Source for either millions of civilian deaths or 55/civilians per day dying?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007...q.iraqtimeline

There was one source that said it was around 500k, but that's been heavily criticised/controversial.

[Dirac Delta Function]

I'm gonna go with a great big F U CK YOU to the yanks.

Hope they do badly.

[Dirac Delta Function]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007...q.iraqtimeline

There was one source that said it was around 500k, but that's been heavily criticised/controversial.

Thanks to your co-religionists.

Do you know why you are such a sick individual? because you propagate the same ideology that caused this massive death toll, then have the audacity to use it as a criticism of the West.

[rmhumphries]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007...q.iraqtimeline

There was one source that said it was around 500k, but that's been heavily criticised/controversial.

Although I am finding it hard to tell, isn't a big part of that number made up from hostile forces that the US/UK were fighting in Iraq? Given here (Yes, it is wikipedia, but I am going to take it on face value since it is well referenced) then 20% of the casualties listed in the report (the only report to list 1million+ casualties) was due to a car bomb, which I am pretty sure would have been Taliban action, not US/UK. If the Taliban was willing to blow up civilians, wasn't it a good thing that they were chased / mostly defeated?

This also ignores the fact that a lot of research suggesting high numbers is seen as being implausible.

[dj1015]

(Original post by rmhumphries)


True, but if Americans were hosting the Olympics, and they had a tribute to 9/11, or another terrorist attack in the USA, and then the UK stream cut it out, while most UK people wouldn't be too upset, the Americans would be.


.

I disagree, I don't think Americans would be upset if we did the same to them. Mostly because american politics is far more balanced, and people over there are not so blindly left wing. Also they don't have the political correctness agenda which is currently blighting this country.

But we wouldn't cut it anyway, as 9/11 deeply affected this country to. Whereas 7/7 didn't really impact the Americans that much.

[Pindar]

(Original post by Ice Constricter)
Why just stop at that? What about the dead civilians of Pakistan and Nigeria and Norway and and.......

I'm sure you see my point.

When did we invade Nigeria and Norway?

[RtGOAT]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
7/7 is just an average day in Iraq/Afghanistan due to British and other foreign troops.

Sure because NATO soldiers specifically target civilians with suicide bombs.

[Pindar]

(Original post by rmhumphries)
Good job, you can read part of what I said. I then went on to say when we should give a montage to them.

It could be argued that if we hadn't of invaded as we had, then more civilians would have been killed and/or tortured under their leaders. So, the invasion, and deaths caused were the lesser of two evils. How can the 7/7 attack be put in the same light?

You reckon LESS people would have died if hadn't invaded Iraq and Afghanistan killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians and triggering years of sectarian violence?

That is the most stupidest argument I have ever heard. So in your world going to war saves lives. Going to war makes peace? You've just been brainwashed quite clearly. 1984 doublethink.

(Original post by rmhumphries)
I didn't watch it, so I won't comment on how related it was to 7/7, but I still agree with my reasons that it is fair for Britons to, in Briton, do things which respect the British dead. Which you seem to think that either the British should do things to remember every death that has ever happened that shouldn't have happened, or none at all.

No... that's not what I said, that's what SOMEONE ELSE said. And then I said if that's the case, why should we only pay respect and think about people who were murdered in 7/7 rather than the other hundreds of thousands at the hands of our government?

(Original post by rmhumphries)
Should we hold a minutes silence for the Norway shootings? Those people shouldn't have died either, so apparently if we care that they died or think it is unfair, we should do something for them. [Carry on with every example of people being unfairly killed ever]

Exactly, if you should pay respect to people who shouldn't have died, then you should care about everyone that happens to. Not just people who were murdered by the government to make a political point.

It's one thing I'm glad the Olympics ceremony did.

(Original post by rmhumphries)
I am interested in where it is said that the British have used pepperbombs, which have then hit or affected civilians. Ok, so I didn't pay full attention to the news until a few years ago, but I don't remember hearing that.

You just answered your own question, you don't pay attention to what happens in the world.

(Original post by rmhumphries)
If I had the choice between one innocent person being killed by myself, or if I didn't kill that person then 10,000 people - some innocent, some not would die - I would kill them (assuming the law allowed me to and other stuff that would happen if it was a non hypothetical situation). If you think that is a disgusting attitude, fair enough. I can see the justification in going to war, in which people will get killed, some of those innocent, if it helps the country by stopping a leader who is torturing and killing their own citizens for no valid reason.

Oh course it makes sense to go down the utilitarian road. It's just the utilitarian argument you are making isn't realistic in the slightest. Do you actually believe that's the reason we went to war??

(Original post by rmhumphries)
If in the case with the two mentioned wars the evidence this was happening was strong enough, etc etc, is something which is debatable and very off-topic, so lets not go off on a tangent - but you seem to be unwilling that it is even a possibility that the wars did more good than damage (or even that the intention was good).

Just the fact that you actually think there's a possibility that war does more good than bad is amazing. It should only be used as a last resort. I've got to say I'm really not interested in having this conversation. Just read more up about it and tell me if you still think war is such a good thing.

[Pindar]

(Original post by cl_steele)
Pish posh all one has to do is read through your prior posts to gauge that is exactly what youre getting at no matter how much you try and deny it...

Again, that's your interpretation of facts. Therefore if anyone thinks the west is "evil", it's you. I've never said such a thing.

It's you trying to turn it into some west v east argument, why can't we just acknowledge that some things are wrong no matter what side of the world commits them?

(Original post by cl_steele)
Lets get one thing straight i never said we must pay our respects, this is a free country no one is forcing anyone to do

That's the only thing I had a problem with.

(Original post by cl_steele)
anything secondly WE never killed anyone, what the government does and what we as the public want done are two very very different things why shouldnt we remember those innocents who were killed for no reason other than some mad ****ing mullah decided he wanted to make a petty statement?

I agree, it's just a turn of phrase. Let's blame the real culprits.

(Original post by cl_steele)
they werent in Iraq gunning people down were they? no they were going about their normal lives. Also since when has our government participated in the whole sale slaughter of civillians out there? theres been a few regretful cases where soldiers have killed civillians certainly but i think youll find the vast majority of civillians killed out there were due to the civil war..

Civil war triggered and aggravated by our government... purposely trying to encourage sectarianism. Plus the thousands which have been killed by our military. The shocking thing is that you don't know this.

(Original post by cl_steele)
The thread wasnt that good? pfft it was drawing attention to a news article it cant be good or bad unlike your quite frankly creepy threads which seem to lean universally to kiddie porn, how everyone should be a smack head, how incest is good (Y) and how all terrorists who like to kill civillians are infact the good guys. I said it once i'll say it again please get off this thread.

If you have to misrepresent people's opinions to make a case then that demonstrates how dishonest/incompetent you are. Stop trying to change the subject and go off-topic because you can't tackle the question at hand.

[Pindar]

(Original post by DorianGrayism)
Stop making up things I didn't say.

I didn't say 7/7 was more important than deaths of innocent civilians.

I said 7/7 was more important and relevant in the history of London and has a special connection with the London Olympics.

That is why there is no tribute to the Holocaust, the Rwandan Genocide, 9/11 and etc but there is a tribute to 7/7.

It is the same reason why you don't have tributes to Afghanistan at your relative's funeral. IT is because it is irrelevant. It is not because your relative is more important than every other human life that had died in that country.

Maybe if you tried to answer what I write instead of making things up and then repeating yourself, you would be able to understand.

What is this 'special connection' you speak of?

When was the last time we've ever had a tribute to, or maybe even a mention of the civilian deaths in Iraq/Afghanistan?

The montage didn't even have anything to do with 7/7, but when did I say that we MUST have a tribute to Rwanda and every single killing on the Earth? Stop attacking a straw man.

I'm saying if you claim to care about people who "shouldn't have died" why are you we should only hold tributes and pay respect for victims of our government in 7/7 when far more have died at the hands of our government abroad? As if those are the only people who "shouldn't have died". And not a little more, a LOT more.

[DorianGrayism]

(Original post by Stefan1991)
What is this 'special connection' you speak of?

It happened the day after the London Olympics were announced. It happened in the same city that the Olympics are taking place in.

(Original post by Stefan1991)
When was the last time we've ever had a tribute to, or maybe even a mention of the civilian deaths in Iraq/Afghanistan?

I don't know. It is irrelevant to whether there should be a tribute for the civilian deaths in Iraq/Afghanistan at the London Olympics.

If you feel so passionately about it, then do one yourself.

(Original post by Stefan1991)
The montage didn't even have anything to do with 7/7, but when did I say that we MUST have a tribute to Rwanda and every single killing on the Earth? Stop attacking a straw man.

I didn't say that you said "we MUST have a tribute to Rwanda".

(Original post by Stefan1991)
I'm saying if you claim to care about people who "shouldn't have died" why are you we should only hold tributes and pay respect for victims of our government in 7/7 when far more have died at the hands of our government abroad? As if those are the only people who "shouldn't have died". And not a little more, a LOT more.

Because, as I said before, 7/7 was an important event that happened in the history of London.

The victims of the Afghan war are irrelevant to the history of London.

I hope that clears everything up.

[cl_steele]

(Original post by Stefan1991)
Again, that's your interpretation of facts. Therefore if anyone thinks the west is "evil", it's you. I've never said such a thing.

It's you trying to turn it into some west v east argument, why can't we just acknowledge that some things are wrong no matter what side of the world commits them?

That's the only thing I had a problem with.

I agree, it's just a turn of phrase. Let's blame the real culprits.



Civil war triggered and aggravated by our government... purposely trying to encourage sectarianism. Plus the thousands which have been killed by our military. The shocking thing is that you don't know this.



If you have to misrepresent people's opinions to make a case then that demonstrates how dishonest/incompetent you are. Stop trying to change the subject and go off-topic because you can't tackle the question at hand.

There is not question at hand youre just sputing your usual torrent of clap trap and again as usual it is annoying people.
May i ask which part of go away are you failing to grasp here?