[whyumadtho]

(Original post by sugar-n-spice)
You claim to not believe in "race", but maintain that differences in allele frequencies occur across geographic boundaries. You refused to answer my question comparing the geographically separate Japanese and Haitian populations, because current location does not indicate genetic differences, they could have arrived ten years ago. So I gave you a diagram showing migration patterns which addressed this.

They differ in the time depth of the Y-chromosome. As I have said on repeated occasions, this does not necessarily correspond to how they differ in any other traits. My argument isn't predicated on migration, so I'm not sure why you brought it up.

The question was not comparing individuals it was comparing populations, all the experts in this field agree population differences are real, the experts you've quoted in the quote you gave agree, so why can you not answer a simple yes or no question?

A population is comprised of individuals. Given a geographical 'population' is the arbitrary act of grouping a bunch of individuals by drawing a line on a map, I see no reason to deviate from the only objective element that is the individual when assessing the presence of an individualised trait.

You didn't demonstrate it I was the first one to say this.

I've been saying it since the start.

Accuracy is a matter of degrees, there are different levels of accuracy.

Since intelligence is idiosyncratic it is not possible to make a reliable individual-by-individual assessment on the basis of what other unrelated people have scored.

All genetic traits are individualized but this didn't stop the scientists you quoted using these when saying population differences occur.

All of the individuals in a particular area cluster when described by particular loci; i.e., everyone sampled was the same or similar when assessing particular loci. When described at other loci, the same individuals will cluster differently and be said to be within discrete genetic clusters.

So is it possible that there is a difference in the frequency of alleles which effect intelligence between the Japanese and the Haitian population, given that I have shown that most of the ancestors of the Japanese population split from the Haitian one very early and that the scientists you have quoted are capable of looking at population differences at a group level even though all alleles are individualized?

No, as evidenced by the presence of intelligent and unintelligent individuals in each 'group'. The population that is intelligent does not correspond to the population described by the time depth of the Y-chromosome. Assuming intelligence is genetic, being in the population described by the Y-chromosome does not necessarily put you in the intelligent/unintelligent population and cannot be said to hold a causative relationship.

[Dirac Delta Function]

I don't mind multiculturalism as long as

1) There is pride and unity in being British (so, not a fractious, ghettoised society)
2) There aren't too many stupid people (you know who you are).

[whyumadtho]

(Original post by democracyforum)
But it only matters what people believe, not what science says.

So social constructs should never be challenged? We would never have broken free of the Dark Ages if "what people [believed]" went unchallenged by science, there would still be slavery because 'Africans are biologically inferior', people would still be lynched by mobs for being witches and demons, people with pronounced psychophysical differences would be ostracised for being cursed, homosexual people would still be criminalised for being 'deviants', etc. Where a social construct is pernicious I see no reason that it should be maintained in the public psyche.

Being afraid of ants and spiders is also nonsensical, but people are.

Irrationalities of this kind should be ironed out. Obviously, however, disliking ants and spiders and thus showing animosity towards such creatures has very different implications to disliking people and showing animosity towards them because they are 'foreign' or of a 'different race'.

[Ano1]

(Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
I don't mind multiculturalism as long as

1) There is pride and unity in being British (so, not a fractious, ghettoised society)
2) There aren't too many stupid people (you know who you are).

[Dirac Delta Function]

(Original post by Ano1)

I don't get the point.

[Ano1]

(Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
I don't get the point.

You said:

I don't mind multiculturalism as long as

1) There is pride and unity in being British

So I showed you an example which you are in favour of. Not everyday it happens.

Now lets imagine that the ratio in the pic made up London//England//UK// or Europe demographics, would you mind that?

[Emaemmaemily]

(Original post by Foo.mp3)
Classification is a matter of formality in the technical sense but of opinion in the subjective sense e.g. according to other Britons rather than merely on paper/in law ~ few Britons (of whatever ethnicity/heritage) would accept a newcomer as being as British as someone more established/assimilated (as a function of immersion over time/heritage) and most find it that bit more objectionable for 'outsiders' to enter territories and then disrespect/attack the host populations - why should that be any different when white people are on the receiving end (for a change)?

Indeed they have, and many are a credit to the nation - indeed I have voluntarily conceeded the point that there are those whom are more dutiful/arguably more 'British' than I in other threads

I can't speak for those with more narrow minded/emotive/extreme views than myself but personally it's a matter of what's both sensible (read: sustainable)

"newcomer"? If someone is born here they have lived here their entire lives, and so they have always been here. Exactly the same as any white person who is born here.
Also, many ethnic minorities have been living in this country for many generations.

Racism is never sensible.

[Dirac Delta Function]

(Original post by Ano1)
You said:

I don't mind multiculturalism as long as

1) There is pride and unity in being British

So I showed you an example which you are in favour of. Not everyday it happens.

Now lets imagine that the ratio in the pic made up London//England//UK// or Europe demographics, would you mind that?

fyi I'm not white.

Yes I would mind (as I have stated before in some other thread). However, given that 90% of the country is white, it's not even worth discussing.

[Mister Dead]

(Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
fyi I'm not white.

Yes I would mind (as I have stated before in some other thread). However, given that 90% of the country is white, it's not even worth discussing.

closer 87% and that's probably a few years out of date.

[democracyforum]

(Original post by whyumadtho)
So social constructs should never be challenged? We would never have broken free of the Dark Ages if "what people [believed]" went unchallenged by science, there would still be slavery because 'Africans are biologically inferior', people would still be lynched by mobs for being witches and demons, people with pronounced psychophysical differences would be ostracised for being cursed, homosexual people would still be criminalised for being 'deviants', etc. Where a social construct is pernicious I see no reason that it should be maintained in the public psyche.

Irrationalities of this kind should be ironed out. Obviously, however, disliking ants and spiders and thus showing animosity towards such creatures has very different implications to disliking people and showing animosity towards them because they are 'foreign' or of a 'different race'.

But the different race, IQ, crime debate at least has some logic and reason behind it,

unlike burning witches and demons.

History shows us people will usually believe what is wrong, and at present everyone believes in racial equality and multiculturalism.... so who knows.

[democracyforum]

(Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
I don't get the point.

They are not British. British describes an ethnic group.

Would you accept a white man as Chinese ? No, no one would.

[Dirac Delta Function]

(Original post by democracyforum)
They are not British. British describes an ethnic group.

Would you accept a white man as Chinese ? No, no one would.

No it doesn't, it's a legal status. My passport says I'm British, I wasn't even born here, never mind have the ethnicity of the indigenous people.

[tufc]

(Original post by Odiem23)
But surely its not a concept that ruins things - its the people - e.g. if there are clashes between one race and another the clashes are not inevitable; the people's egos, prejudices, violent dispositions and selfishness causes the clashes - not the concept itself.

But it's a concept that's been put into practice! Whether you see it as a concept or not, the implementation of it has been disastrous.

[whyumadtho]

(Original post by democracyforum)
But the different race, IQ, crime debate at least has some logic and reason behind it,

No they don't; we are all individuals with autonomy over whether or not we choose to commit a crime and how much time we dedicate to learning something.

unlike burning witches and demons.

Same principle.

History shows us people will usually believe what is wrong, and at present everyone believes in racial equality and multiculturalism.... so who knows.

Wow. I fear you're too stupid to see logical reason.

[Menefrego88]

Its a bad thing a very bad thing.

[tufc]

(Original post by effofex)
It happens in multinational corporations all the time.

And? What works in businesses doesn't necessarily work in communities...

[FSP]

(Original post by Elipsis)
Come on now, do you honestly think there weren't thousands and thousands of people who failed to get in, because they clearly chose to put loads more minorities in. You didn't see this happen in China. You saw Chinese people celebrating their country. I'm not adversed to having lots of minorities involved, but pretending that every other person during the industrial revolution was brown is just plane ridiculous.

You do know chinese is NOT an ethnic group !

For all you know they could have had a child from evey ethnic group in China.

Did you apply to act in the olympics ? If not stop complaining
China's olympics was about showing it had come as a nation.
The London Olympics opening ceremony celebrated Britian amd British History

[Mister Dead]

just in case anyone is still foolish enough to consider the mail anything other than a despicable, hate filled tabloid, just like its counterparts:

a quickly pulled section from DM article earlier:

(Original post by Daily Mail)
But it was the absurdly unrealistic scene – and indeed one that would spring from the kind of nonsensical targets and equality quotas we see in the NHS - showing a mixed-race middle-class family in a detached new-build suburban home, which was most symptomatic of the politically correct agenda in modern Britain.

This was supposed to be a representation of modern life in England but it is likely to be a challenge for the organisers to find an educated white middle-aged mother and black father living together with a happy family in such a set-up.

Almost, if not every, shot in the next sequence included an ethnic minority performer. The BBC presenter Hazel Irvine gushed about the importance of grime music (a form of awful electronic music popular among black youths) to east London.

the rewrite

(Original post by Daily Mail)
“This was supposed to be a representation of modern life in England but such set-ups are simply not the ‘norm’ in any part of the country. So why was it portrayed like this and given such prominence? If it was intended to be something that we can celebrate, that two people with different colour skin and different cultural heritages can live harmoniously together, then it deserves praise.
But what will be disturbing to many people is top-down political manipulation – whether consciously or unthinkingly – at a major sporting event.”

[Hanvyj]

Well, its shocked me how many people on this forum are racists.

I know, this is the internet, this is what happens. But still, it used to be a small minority - the same faces over and over again. Now there are more and more... I'm glad I've stopped coming here so often.



In response to the opening ceremony: OMG OMG They are all the wrong colours!!!!

[Mister Dead]

(Original post by Hanvyj)
Well, its shocked me how many people on this forum are racists.

I know, this is the internet, this is what happens. But still, it used to be a small minority - the same faces over and over again. Now there are more and more... I'm glad I've stopped coming here so often.

I thought this was the last place you'd find such overt racism and so many racists hiding behind mostly feeble facades. It's terrible.