Engineering discipline which has the greatest focus on alt. energies?

OP

Thanks for that, I needed a laugh.

I can only speak for my own university, but right from first year there are projects focused on renewables, and from third year you can start to specialise to study them in more detail (so if you do the MEng you have 3 years of specialised renewables study). If you chose the appropriate subjects you can even graduate with the degree title MEng Electrical Energy Systems.

Thanks

what uni is this?

Reply 21

username306617

14

Original post by coolstorybrother

Thanks

what uni is this?

Strathclyde, we have a top notch EEE department, you should def give us a look :biggrin:

Reply 22

Peel

10

I think you should be looking at it in terms of what aspect of the work you want to be doing, rather than which discipline has the most "focus" on alternative energies. Take a wind turbine for example, the EE(E)ers will be involved with the electronics, and mechanical engineers will design the turbines themselves - although they're both involved, they're doing very different things.

Reply 23

pheonix254

6

Original post by pshewitt1

mechanical for sure. do it at Manchester and do the nuclear course :smile:

I asked my interviewer which to pick for this exact thing, electrical engineers are the worst paid engineering discipline and also have little way of diversifying in comparison. chem eng won;t give you anything on mech eng according to the head of the course...

Right, lets sort this out.

Mechanical for alternative energies? Why? What mechanical components are used in alternative energies? I can think of a few - flywheels, some limited regenerative systems, turbines. Anything else? maybe CCS, I'm not really sure. Anything else? Not off the top of my head.

Lets think of the Electrical then. Alternative energies that use them. Tidal/Wind/Solar/Geothermal/Wave/Supercapacitors/Thermoelectrics/Fuel Cells/Energy storage/heat pumps/regenerative systems/advanced control systems. So yeah - pretty much everything to do with alternative energies has direct links with electrical or power engineering.

Worst paid - you're having a laugh. I did Electronics with Power systems, and absolutely hands down is the power systems specialisation worth its weight in gold. no one is studying it, the workforce is all 50+ and retiring, and electrical companies are screaming for new blood. So, lets talk numbers then, I got paid, via scholarships directly related to electrical engineering, £25,000 over 4 years to study at university. My summer work placements, average salary pro-rata as an undergraduate student - £18,000. My graduate job was paid a £4,500 golden hello, and a new starter is looking at £28,000 p.a. for 9 months before their first pay review, which tends to take them up to £30,000 within the first year of working. And you're telling me I studied "the worst paid engineering discipline?"

So yeah, that's the figures proving your lecturer wrong. If you want money, go into banking. Until then, electrical engineering isn't too shabby. Is it the best paid of the engineers? no, mining or chemical probably can command £35,000-£45,000 starting, provided they do NOT go into alternative energy and go work for mineral/oil/gas. I'm not saying that my situation was the average - I tend to go out and seize any possible opportunity, most of my fellow course-mates didn't spend hours on applications like I did, and didn't reap the rewards of doing so. But electrical engineering on the whole is no worse paid than mechanical, and looking at the demographics of the two, it certainly isn't going to be.

Little way of diversifying - hmmm. Again, I do not agree. Sure, there are alot of mechnical systems out there. But the world is going mad for electrification right now. Why? efficiency. An electrical motor can be 90% efficient whilst an internal combustion engine is stuck at 30-45%. I'm an engineer - I do the same maths as you as a mech eng, if not more (how many complex numbers do you deal with in mechanical systems, I'd wager not nearly as many as we use in electrical systems, considering that even a simple circuit with capacitance has a complex component to it. What about control theory?) Granted. I didn't study thermodynamics at university. Turns out I needed it in my first job anyway, and did what an engineer does best - teaches him(her)self. You really think that 3 hours of lectures on one subject at university gives you all you need to know to do your job in it? you're dreaming.

That's true for any discipline, mech, chem, electronic, electrical, civil - the whole point of studying engineering is that you have an understanding broad enough to be able to teach yourself any subject you need. So I'd say any engineer can diversify, regardless of what they studied - as with anything, you choose what to go into yourself, through what you choose as options, projects, what you get involved with in your spare time, etc.

So, hopefully that is enough elaboration on exactly why I disagree with your statement, yet contains enough added-value information to answer the original poster's questions, and in doing so contributes to the discussion instead of being seen as a puerile retort.

Best of luck with whatever you choose to do - in my view, any engineering discipline is worthy of respect.

Stu Haynes, MEng MIET MIEEE

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 24

coolstorybrother

OP

8

Original post by pheonix254

Right, lets sort this out.

Stu Haynes, MEng MIET MIEEE

Thanks for your response once again, some interesting points you made there. The point you made about having to learn some thermodynamics kinda backs up my opinion that there is no ONE legendary discipline which covers the "A-Z" of alternate energies, it's a mixture of the disciplines - a little bit of everything. I hope you don't mind me pasting your response from another thread where I asked you this question. I felt it was an incredibly detailed, well thought out response covering many aspects and also contained valuable information which others may benefit from.

Which discipline? Well, alternative ENERGY is the clue, ENERGY generally = Electrical = Electrical Engineering is the only discipline which will allow you to explore all possible forms of alternative energies - mechanical will lend you well to the mechanical style ones, think wind turbines, tidal generation, flywheels and CCS but will be far less relevant when it comes to SOx or Hydrogen fuel cells, super-capacitors or thermoelectric/thermionic devices, where a chemical engineer may be involved (though I work on all these things and have yet to meet a chem eng in this field, as they're all working for big oil). An electrical engineer on the other hand can be involved in all of them. Mechanical automotive technologies such as regenerative braking - yeah, mech eng, depending on how the technology is, for turbine design - mech eng (though I do that too as an electronic engineer.). But electrification is everywhere, automotive, marine, aerospace - quite simply, electric motors can be much more efficient - (70-90%), compared to the best mechanical engines (40-50%), so energy leads in that direction.

Your discipline choice doesn't count you out, per se - any engineer has the toolkit to be able to go into the field they want, but proving you have the ability and the knowledge is easier if you did the discipline - so you can, as a civil engineer, go and work in renewables, but you'll have to have a damn good interview and probably have experience in the field if they'll pick you over say an electrical graduate. Then again there are jobs for all types of engineers in most renewable tech, they'll just be doing different things.

"Alternatives" is a "cool" subject at the moment. the reality of the world is that they're still too expensive, decades away due to technology immaturity, and causing an awful lot of problems with integration with existing infrastructure. These problems will have to be tackled, and will not go away, but the demand for engineers involved in what is essentially a loss-making industry for the foreseeable future is always going to be lower than demand for engineers in a profit-making industry. "Sustainability" is much more of a core subject, which every engineering discipline is embracing, but this generally involves improving older technology to work more efficiently.

So all in all, that probably doesn't answer your question. The most relevant discipline is electrical, having the most branches into alternative/sustainable energy, though if you want to be working on chemical systems, choose chem, if mechanical systems interest you, choose mech. If you want to be doing structural engineering for the likes of wind turbines etc, choose civil. There is no one silver bullet in this area, you need a lot of disciplines working together.

Power generation, think country-wide grids, is a VERY slow moving industry. Things need to be proven, completely stable, and offer no surprises. therefore you will never be involved in absolutely cutting edge technology. Aerospace has the same stringent safety requirements, but they do work on anything that is lighter, more power dense and longer lasting than that which is currently used, so more scope for the cutting edge here. Automotive probably is the most fast moving industry here. They have far fewer safety requirements and legislation to comply with (this is all relative, remember, I'm not saying cars are unsafe), and hence more freedom to explore. They're also leaning towards mechanical technologies at the moment, but again - remembering what I said about electrification and fast moving - you should be thinking 5 years ahead which is when you'll be graduating.

An area which offers huge potential and is barely tapped is control systems - intelligent control can get a system performing far better, far more efficiently and with far less core requirements than a straight mechanical / electrical system by itself. It is currently a massive growth area, and providing massive benefits to those using it. Degrees that typically offer it will be systems engineering, electronic engineering, and perhaps manufacturing (mechanical) engineering to some extent.

Anyway, hope this is useful,

Stu Haynes MEng, MIET, MIEEE

Reply 25

bilgin_143

6

Mechanical engineering obviously covers alt. energy.. I don't understand the point of this discussion while all manufacturing processes in the preparation of the structures needed, the design process of solar energy towers, blades of wind turbines, towers of wind turbines, cooling towers of nuclear, geothermal, and hydrogen plants, turbines of hydro-electrical plants are covered by the mechanical engineering degree in form of manufacturing processes, advanced manufacturing and control systems, micro-mechanics, thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, materials and statics-dynamics units...

The only stuff the EEE would do in the field of alternative energy is to design an electrical motor, and maybe the circuits involved, and of course the power storage systems to tackle the problem of unpredictability in most alt. energies.. In mere technical terms the mechanical engineer is responsible of the process of creation of motion, and the electrical engineer is responsible of turning it into power by the simple magnetic engine and storing it somewhere.

You should grow up and realise that mechanical engineering is not simply about cars and petrol engines.. In fact that is just a light-small module you opt for in the last year and that no one actually cares.

The ones saying EEE is a low paying job are also wrong because of the high demand in the IT industry, Mechanical engineers earn just a little bit less because the field ME s work in is much more broader and the wages vary a lot (regarding to the school you've graduated, the sector you are working in), say a ME working in field of a small aerospace company would earn less than a ME who's in management of a big multi-national (and the best thing is that this depends mostly on your ambitions and preferences, and on your luck as in everything). If you are in engineering just for the money and not for curiosity go for Petroleum engineering, you'll earn a lot but you might end up in a lost platform in the middle of the ocean. Electrical engineering is a respectable degree, and is also a hard one to finish, as it is the case in Mechanical engineering. ME is obviously much broader and is less affected by a recession in a single industry, but this doesn't make one superior to another, that is out of question cuz they are different fields...

Mech. eng or EEE is just a question of preference.. If you are god with HS dynamics and thermodynamics go for ME, but if you are good with HS electricity ( mostly on AC) in physics go for EEE. Obviously you need a strong mathematical background but that is true for any engineering degree.

Wish you good luck in whatever career you choose..

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 26

bilgin_143

6

Original post by Popppppy

Strathclyde, we have a top notch EEE department, you should def give us a look :biggrin:

Strathclyde .. LOL

Source: http://www.topuniversities.com/institution/university-strathclyde

And you were the one laughing at a Manchester mech. eng degree LOL again.

Soruce: http://www.topuniversities.com/institution/university-manchester

Besides most of the mech. eng degrees covers topics related to alternative energies. Just have a look at: http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/undergraduate/courses/unitInformation/?programme_id=51&level_id=3
http://www.liv.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/mechanical-engineering-meng-hons/modules/
http://www.mecheng.ucl.ac.uk/learning/undergraduate/mechanical-engineering/programme/

We have a lot of units to do about power generation, sustainable development, heat (pure energy) transfer and much more, and of course these can be applied to alt. energy systems..

Reply 27

Foghorn Leghorn

16

Original post by bilgin_143

You should grow up and realise that mechanical engineering is not simply about cars and petrol engines.. In fact that is just a light-small module you opt for in the last year and that no one actually cares.

And you should realise that EEE isn't just about electrical and machine principles. One of the main focuses in an EEE degree is power systems engineering. Electrical engineers that are employed and as power systems specialists basically design the whole system from choosing the steam turbines and wind turbines etc, to deciding the the control of transmission and the set up of distribution. It certainly isn't just about designing the genys. The mech engineers have to consult the EE guys on the motion process and vice versa. Infact I think you'll find that both Mech Engineers and EE engineers work very closely together when desigining such systems. When studying power systems engineering basically a large chunk of the course is learning all the aspects of different alt. energies.

If op really wants a specific degree to get into Alt. energies then he should do a power systems degree, which was what I started doing before I switched to EEE. A power systems degree is basically like a Electrical eng degree but instead of just having a power systems module basically all other modules are centered around power systems of which power systems becomes the degree itself rather than one aspect of the degree. Although I would advise against doing such a specific degree because it does narrow your knowledge a bit which can have a negative impact when looking for a job outside that specific field.

Either that or an elctro-mechanical degree.

Reply 28

Foghorn Leghorn

16

Original post by bilgin_143

Strathclyde .. LOL

Source: http://www.topuniversities.com/institution/university-strathclyde

And you were the one laughing at a Manchester mech. eng degree LOL again.

Soruce: http://www.topuniversities.com/institution/university-manchester

Besides most of the mech. eng degrees covers topics related to alternative energies. Just have a look at: http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/undergraduate/courses/unitInformation/?programme_id=51&level_id=3
http://www.liv.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/mechanical-engineering-meng-hons/modules/
http://www.mecheng.ucl.ac.uk/learning/undergraduate/mechanical-engineering/programme/

We have a lot of units to do about power generation, sustainable development, heat (pure energy) transfer and much more, and of course these can be applied to alt. energy systems..

Strathclyde is a founding memeber of the IET power academy with Manc.

Reply 29

bilgin_143

6

Original post by Foghorn Leghorn

And you should realise that EEE isn't just about electrical and machine principles. One of the main focuses in an EEE degree is power systems engineering. Electrical engineers that are employed and as power systems specialists basically design the whole system from choosing the steam turbines and wind turbines etc, to deciding the the control of transmission and the set up of distribution. It certainly isn't just about designing the genys. The mech engineers have to consult the EE guys on the motion process and vice versa. Infact I think you'll find that both Mech Engineers and EE engineers work very closely together when desigining such systems. When studying power systems engineering basically a large chunk of the course is learning all the aspects of different alt. energies.

If op really wants a specific degree to get into Alt. energies then he should do a power systems degree, which was what I started doing before I switched to EEE. A power systems degree is basically like a Electrical eng degree but instead of just having a power systems module basically all other modules are centered around power systems of which power systems becomes the degree itself rather than one aspect of the degree. Although I would advise against doing such a specific degree because it does narrow your knowledge a bit which can have a negative impact when looking for a job outside that specific field.

Either that or an elctro-mechanical degree.

Bro, I didn't narrowed down EEE into electrical and machine principles, the stuff generated is electricity and obviously EEE's will work on the specifications of an alternative energy power plant, and won't just work on the generators, but also on storage ect.. What I wanted to say, and I thought I made it quite clear, was that Mech. engineers also have a role in alt. energy, and our role is not negligible.

And I never said EEE was inferior to ME, and I also agree that ME's and EEE's work closely in the field of alternative energy, because I'm currently doing an internship in a power plant infrastructure contractor, and I know about that relation.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 30

username306617

14

Original post by bilgin_143

Strathclyde .. LOL

Source: http://www.topuniversities.com/institution/university-strathclyde

And you were the one laughing at a Manchester mech. eng degree LOL again.

Soruce: http://www.topuniversities.com/institution/university-manchester

Besides most of the mech. eng degrees covers topics related to alternative energies. Just have a look at: http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/undergraduate/courses/unitInformation/?programme_id=51&level_id=3
http://www.liv.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/mechanical-engineering-meng-hons/modules/
http://www.mecheng.ucl.ac.uk/learning/undergraduate/mechanical-engineering/programme/

We have a lot of units to do about power generation, sustainable development, heat (pure energy) transfer and much more, and of course these can be applied to alt. energy systems..

Thanks for linking to a completely random website that I've never even heard of.
I wasn't comparing Strathclyde and Manchester. I was laughing at the comment about the low wages for EEE students.

And since you started it, official government statistics from unistats.gov.uk

Strathclyde EEE
% Employed with grad job : 90%
% Satisfied with course : 94%

The IET Power Academy Scholarship scheme has been running since 2004.
There are 7 universities who take part, including Southampton, Imperial and Bath.
Between 2004 and 2011 there have been 394 scholarships offered, 146 of them have gone to Strathclyde students, that's over a third of the scholarships going to only 1 of the 7 unis.

Reply 31

bilgin_143

6

Original post by Popppppy

Thanks for linking to a completely random website that I've never even heard of.
I wasn't comparing Strathclyde and Manchester. I was laughing at the comment about the low wages for EEE students.

And since you started it, official government statistics from unistats.gov.uk

Strathclyde EEE
% Employed with grad job : 90%
% Satisfied with course : 94%

The IET Power Academy Scholarship scheme has been running since 2004.
There are 7 universities who take part, including Southampton, Imperial and Bath.
Between 2004 and 2011 there have been 394 scholarships offered, 146 of them have gone to Strathclyde students, that's over a third of the scholarships going to only 1 of the 7 unis.

To start with, Strathclyde is a founding member of the IET, so that does not surprise me,and please don't compare Imperial college students to Strathclyde's, we all know who are the no.1 in engineering in UK.

BTW, Imperial has 80% satisfaction and yet the highest starting salary, ****ty and cheerful is utterly pointless when it comes to education.. Grad job, paying what? 15k a year ?!

And that site is the first one that comes up on google when you type in "international university rankings", and yet you can have a look at the following 10, and the results are going to be pretty much the same.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 32

Peel

10

Original post by Popppppy

Thanks for linking to a completely random website that I've never even heard of.
I wasn't comparing Strathclyde and Manchester. I was laughing at the comment about the low wages for EEE students.

And since you started it, official government statistics from unistats.gov.uk

Strathclyde EEE
% Employed with grad job : 90%
% Satisfied with course : 94%

The IET Power Academy Scholarship scheme has been running since 2004.
There are 7 universities who take part, including Southampton, Imperial and Bath.
Between 2004 and 2011 there have been 394 scholarships offered, 146 of them have gone to Strathclyde students, that's over a third of the scholarships going to only 1 of the 7 unis.

To be fair, a lot of the students at Imperial (and perhaps the other unis mentioned) are internationals, probably as much as 80% of the class for EEE, so either have their own government scholarships worth in excess of £25k a year, or are just ineligble for a UK scholarship - that's what I found anyway.

Original post by bilgin_143

Grad job, paying what? 15k a year ?!

A lot of Strathclyde students get starting salaries well over £30,000 a year because it's one of the most targeted universities for the oil & gas sector. Also heavily targeted by utilities and renewables too.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Strathclyde students were some of the best paid in the country.

Reply 34

username306617

14

Original post by Smack

A lot of Strathclyde students get starting salaries well over £30,000 a year because it's one of the most targeted universities for the oil & gas sector. Also heavily targeted by utilities and renewables too.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Strathclyde students were some of the best paid in the country.

It wouldn't let me rate you again, ah well.
My course director was telling me a few weeks ago that in June he had a petroleum company basically begging him for grads and he had to tell them that they were too late, all the final year (MEng) students had already secured employment.
I'm currently working with First group over the summer, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they like me and want me for the grad scheme.

Reply 35

bilgin_143

6

Original post by Popppppy

It wouldn't let me rate you again, ah well.
My course director was telling me a few weeks ago that in June he had a petroleum company basically begging him for grads and he had to tell them that they were too late, all the final year (MEng) students had already secured employment.
I'm currently working with First group over the summer, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they like me and want me for the grad scheme.

Allright then.. Sorry for my ignorance, shouldn't have talked about stuff that I don't know well, and sorry again to call your uni ****ty..

Reply 36

coolstorybrother

OP

8

Original post by bilgin_143

To start with, Strathclyde is a founding member of the IET, so that does not surprise me,and please don't compare Imperial college students to Strathclyde's, we all know who are the no.1 in engineering in UK.

BTW, Imperial has 80% satisfaction and yet the highest starting salary, ****ty and cheerful is utterly pointless when it comes to education.. Grad job, paying what? 15k a year ?!

And that site is the first one that comes up on google when you type in "international university rankings", and yet you can have a look at the following 10, and the results are going to be pretty much the same.

They tried that line in their prospectus and open day. Thing I dont get is that - yes Imperial may have the "highest starting salary" but come on, it's in the south kensington and you'll definitely be living in London. The living cost are surely extortionate, so you may be getting paid more but living costs and maintenance would also be greater than someone in say, Bath? So a 30-35k starting for an Imperial grad would surely be the same as a 25-28k for a Bath/Bristol grad? (Thanks for your reply to this forum about Mech engineers was very informative :smile:

)

(edited 11 years ago)

Original post by coolstorybrother

They tried that line in their prospectus and open day. Thing I dont get is that - yes Imperial may have the "highest starting salary" but come on, it's in the south kensington and you'll definitely be living in London. The living cost are surely extortionate, so you may be getting paid more but living costs and maintenance would also be greater than someone in say, Bath? So a 30-35k starting for an Imperial grad would surely be the same as a 25-28k for a Bath/Bristol grad? (Thanks for your reply to this forum about Mech engineers was very informative :smile:

)

Starting salaries depend on the company you work for, so if graduates from Imperial and Bath get onto the same graduate programme they get paid the same. The whole average starting salary thing is a bit of rather useless information only used to woo prospective undergraduates as it likely includes all graduates who reply to the surveys sent out, not just those who enter the engineering profession.

Most of the highest paying engineering roles aren't in or near London and very few graduates typically are prepared to move all over the country for their favourite/highest paying jobs.

Reply 38

coolstorybrother

OP

8

Original post by Smack

Starting salaries depend on the company you work for, so if graduates from Imperial and Bath get onto the same graduate programme they get paid the same. The whole average starting salary thing is a bit of rather useless information only used to woo prospective undergraduates as it likely includes all graduates who reply to the surveys sent out, not just those who enter the engineering profession.

Most of the highest paying engineering roles aren't in or near London and very few graduates typically are prepared to move all over the country for their favourite/highest paying jobs.

So like pheonix254 said, you have to follow the money? So the Oil and Gas sector would be the best paid but most likely you'd be an offshore engineer - surely this is for an Chem eng graduate? Interesting, How does it work for a EEE/ Mech engineer? Where is the money for them? Offshore as well? Why are salaries better for offshore engineers than U.k based? Some people tell me that it's best to be an offshore engineer while your young - make the money and gain experience then come back and the U.K... Money isn't really why I want to do Engineering (If it was I'd go into Finance/accountancy :L ) but I'm curious as to why an offshore engineer is supposedly where the money is...

Reply 39

bilgin_143

6

Original post by coolstorybrother

So like pheonix254 said, you have to follow the money? So the Oil and Gas sector would be the best paid but most likely you'd be an offshore engineer - surely this is for an Chem eng graduate? Interesting, How does it work for a EEE/ Mech engineer? Where is the money for them? Offshore as well? Why are salaries better for offshore engineers than U.k based? Some people tell me that it's best to be an offshore engineer while your young - make the money and gain experience then come back and the U.K... Money isn't really why I want to do Engineering (If it was I'd go into Finance/accountancy :L ) but I'm curious as to why an offshore engineer is supposedly where the money is...

Offshore engineering is a well paid job, for the simple reason because otherwise, companies wouldn't find well qualified brilliant people willing to go there. It requires you to sacrifice your social life, as you will be living in an oil platform most of the time, platforms aren't luxurious hotels, you won't have any comfort or privacy. And of course, you will have to undertake the risks of the job, such as fire, explosion or huge storms etc..

I don't know how an EEE would work in an oil platform, but I'm pretty sure they have roles for EEE.. For mechanical engineering, you can be responsible of the control systems, operations, maintenance, piping systems, you can be a design engineer, or a project engineer etc... For more examples and a better idea of the available jobs have a look at oilcareers.com or such career sites

I would say that is an ideal job for a young engineer, as you would be hardly spending anything, you will have the opportunity to keep that money, and when you have enough, you can invest it or set up your own business, and you will have plenty of time to expand that company of yours. Or, if you want to continue your career in the oil and gas or in the energy field, you will have valuable experience, and you will be more likely to get secure a well paying job, or maybe go for a job in the gulf or the US.

And you may be right about imperial, but don't forget that there are a lot of internationals in there, and a 30k starting salary is a huge amount of money in the countries they come from, and these people usually can't stay in the UK, they go back home or to other countries as getting a working visa for UK gets harder and harder every year, and as far as I know they are no longer entitled for a working visa of 3 years after they graduate.

(edited 11 years ago)

Engineering discipline which has the greatest focus on alt. energies?

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