Are most British Muslims homophobic?
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Re: Are most British Muslims homophobic?Go re-read my post, it's edited before you replied. And it sounds like you're a troll, considering you didn't even read my initial reply either.(Original post by Ilyas)
I'll quote my other reply to this thread, post number #20:
Narated By Abdullah ibn Abbas : The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.
Narated By Abdullah ibn Abbas : If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death.
What? are these hadiths inaccurate? because I don't know how else you'll twist and turn the sentiment such that homosexuals should not be killed in Islam.
Go on, I'm interested to see how you're going to wriggle out of this. Please baffle me.
Google the word "Sodomy". Are you a homosexual?Last edited by Perseveranze; 30-07-2012 at 13:56. -
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Re: Are most British Muslims homophobic?Except they do, according to shariah law.(Original post by JammyChoos)
Oh and FYI, a muslim ,gay or not, will be judged by Allah only and thats the persons problem. No one else should have to butt in. -
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Re: Are most British Muslims homophobic?Also, here you go;(Original post by Ilyas)
I'll quote my other reply to this thread, post number #20:
Narated By Abdullah ibn Abbas : The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.
Narated By Abdullah ibn Abbas : If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death.
What? are these hadiths inaccurate? because I don't know how else you'll twist and turn the sentiment such that homosexuals should not be killed in Islam.
Go on, I'm interested to see how you're going to wriggle out of this. Please baffle me.
Abu Bakr Al-Jaza'iri stated in his At-Tafsir Al-Muyassar that
"Those who slander male or female believers [i.e. Muslims] by accusing them of committing zina or sodomy, must produce four witnesses to testify before the judge, supporting their accusation; otherwise, they are to be punished (i.e. 80 lashes)."
Sounds more like protection for homosexuals does it not? We must really want to kill them if we have to produce 4 sane, upright (non suspicious) witnesses - which, if we fail to do, we get 80 lashes.
Future advice. Don't try to interpret a random translation of any hadith, unless you're a hadith scholar. This is why you got it completely wrong.
There is great wisdom behind this statement;
Ibn ‘Uyyana, (rahimahullah):
“The hadiths are a source of error except for the ***aha.”
In case you're not good at understanding english phrases, don't hesitate to ask me what the above means.Last edited by Perseveranze; 30-07-2012 at 14:07. -
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Re: Are most British Muslims homophobic?(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
So... Yes, I'd venture a guess that they are very homophobic indeed.
just like christians and jews -
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Re: Are most British Muslims homophobic?(Original post by cityboy2012)
This has been on my mind for a while considering i have gay Muslim friends. I'd want to know how Muslim students here would react to them. Would you avoid them, ignore them, ostracise them, beat them up etc? What do non-Muslims think who have Muslim friends? These friends of mine are good people, they pray 5 times a day, they fast during Ramadhan and they just want to belong. They are proud to be of their faith, some engage in a range of activities from celibacy, monogamous relationship to living an moc (or marrying a gay guy/girl for cover). All of them hide their identity though. They would also make good friends for straight Muslims. Unfortunately, as soon as it gets out they are gay a lot of their straight Muslim friends avoid them, some have parents who disown and kick them out.
One of my gay asian male Muslim friends, who is a virgin, recently got raped by a straight/bi Muslim guy in a married relationship. He thought they were just friends but the guy took advantage of him. He is an immigrant for overseas, he is in fear of his visa being taken away, of being exposed as gay in his homeland
This guy is a romantic sort of guy and he was waiting for someone special to have a relationship with but this guy, who is an upstanding British asian citizen, took advantage of him. It has been too late for him to give medical evidence since a week has passed ..but the fact of the matter is who will beleive him. Who will support him in his community. Just because he knows he is gay and doesn't want to engage in a false marriage people will be biased against him and think he is maligning the other guy. These guys don't choose to be gay, they have no feelings for women so why torture them further by rejecting them even more then they already have.
A lot of my gay friends are supportive of Muslims having religious freedom but from what i've read i don't see this thought reciprocated.
I've heard incidents happen in the past but i don't think they represent all Muslims.
http://www.news24.com/World/News/Bri...hobia-20120120
This news has reached further than UK shores.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann..._b_828037.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/ma...-homosexuality
Why do British Muslims seem to dislike gays so much, even compared to Muslims of other countries? Why can't you see them as humans deserving of respect. I'm sure none of you are perfect so why judge?
So if you're a Muslim, how would you react to a gay Muslim or a gay non-Muslim?
How do non-Muslims think their Muslim friends would respond?
If i can make even one Muslim person, who is close-minded, be a little open minded i will feel like i have achieved something.
Surprise poll shows widespread Muslim support for gay rights.
Last edited by Ferrero Rocher; 30-07-2012 at 14:14. -
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Re: Are most British Muslims homophobic?Maxxie?(Original post by PeaceFreak)
I'm a gay guy and my best friend is a muslim guy who's pretty religious, whaddya say to that eh? -
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Re: Are most British Muslims homophobic?I should be more precise. I know that homosexuality is not punished. If I suddenly became a homosexual now for what ever reason I obviously do not deserve death as the act is punished (according to Islam). It was obvious so I assumed that you would assume they acted too.(Original post by Perseveranze)
Go re-read my post, it's edited before you replied. And it sounds like you're a troll, considering you didn't even read my initial reply either.
Google the word "Sodomy". Are you a homosexual?
What? how does this defend sodomists?(Original post by Perseveranze)
Also, here you go;
Abu Bakr Al-Jaza'iri stated in his At-Tafsir Al-Muyassar that
"Those who slander male or female believers [i.e. Muslims] by accusing them of committing zina or sodomy, must produce four witnesses to testify before the judge, supporting their accusation; otherwise, they are to be punished (i.e. 80 lashes)."
EDIT: well, now you know that im talking about sodomists and not homosexuals exactly, sorry for the inconvenience.Last edited by Venomilys; 30-07-2012 at 14:28. -
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Re: Are most British Muslims homophobic?So the gay friends you have are nice because they just happen to be nice? Or are you suggesting their homosexuality makes them more polite and honest than heterosexuals?(Original post by JammyChoos)
No not just gay muslims (i dont know a gay muslim), I said gay people I find are a lot more honest and nicer i.e accepting of people than other straight people i know. -
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Re: Are most British Muslims homophobic?this is immature, but I love that pun(Original post by JammyChoos)
Oh and FYI, a muslim ,gay or not, will be judged by Allah only and thats the persons problem. No one else should have to butt in.
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Re: Are most British Muslims homophobic?Christians, indeed, Jews, not so much.(Original post by kaboon-supreme)
just like christians and jews
But tell me, why the urge to constantly point out that other religions are *******s as well? It's not like it's making yours sound any better. -
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Re: Are most British Muslims homophobic?oh shut up being so defensive.(Original post by Golden_Boy786)
Very convincing thread. Doubt you have met any muslims and why would you waste so much time trying to inferiorize Islam.
Guess this is just another way the OP thinks he can ridicule other religions and mocking them.
Mist admit yu did a very good job. Troll. -
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Re: Are most British Muslims homophobic?Looks like you gotta lot of time on yours hands....(Original post by cityboy2012)
This has been on my mind for a while considering i have gay Muslim friends. I'd want to know how Muslim students here would react to them. Would you avoid them, ignore them, ostracise them, beat them up etc? What do non-Muslims think who have Muslim friends? These friends of mine are good people, they pray 5 times a day, they fast during Ramadhan and they just want to belong. They are proud to be of their faith, some engage in a range of activities from celibacy, monogamous relationship to living an moc (or marrying a gay guy/girl for cover). All of them hide their identity though. They would also make good friends for straight Muslims. Unfortunately, as soon as it gets out they are gay a lot of their straight Muslim friends avoid them, some have parents who disown and kick them out.
One of my gay asian male Muslim friends, who is a virgin, recently got raped by a straight/bi Muslim guy in a married relationship. He thought they were just friends but the guy took advantage of him. He is an immigrant for overseas, he is in fear of his visa being taken away, of being exposed as gay in his homeland
This guy is a romantic sort of guy and he was waiting for someone special to have a relationship with but this guy, who is an upstanding British asian citizen, took advantage of him. It has been too late for him to give medical evidence since a week has passed ..but the fact of the matter is who will beleive him. Who will support him in his community. Just because he knows he is gay and doesn't want to engage in a false marriage people will be biased against him and think he is maligning the other guy. These guys don't choose to be gay, they have no feelings for women so why torture them further by rejecting them even more then they already have.
A lot of my gay friends are supportive of Muslims having religious freedom but from what i've read i don't see this thought reciprocated.
I've heard incidents happen in the past but i don't think they represent all Muslims.
http://www.news24.com/World/News/Bri...hobia-20120120
This news has reached further than UK shores.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann..._b_828037.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/ma...-homosexuality
Why do British Muslims seem to dislike gays so much, even compared to Muslims of other countries? Why can't you see them as humans deserving of respect. I'm sure none of you are perfect so why judge?
So if you're a Muslim, how would you react to a gay Muslim or a gay non-Muslim?
How do non-Muslims think their Muslim friends would respond?
If i can make even one Muslim person, who is close-minded, be a little open minded i will feel like i have achieved something.
Homophobia does not exist in just one religion, race or nationality...
There are homophobic people in all religions whether they accept homosexuality or not i.e. there are christians which discriminate against homosexuals this can also include British christians such as the couple who refused the gay couple in their B&B.
However, not everyone is homophobic.... such as the muslim imam who wedded the muslim gay couple.
Anyways, as I said, homophobia is based on someones mentality and feelings! not on what religion, race or what nationality they are! -
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Re: Are most British Muslims homophobic?So are you also going to ignore the impossibility of getting caught for sodomy, unless you done the act in public?(Original post by Ilyas)
What? how does this defend sodomists?
EDIT: well, now you know that im talking about sodomists and not homosexuals exactly, sorry for the inconvenience.
And if someone accused you of Sodomy and couldn't provide 4 witnesses, they would get 80 lashes?
Or the fact that, if you spied on someone (in the privacy of their home, where most sodomite acts are likely to take place), your witness will be void and you will get accused of spying?
Even in the west, if you commit sexual acts in public, you can get many years in jail.
I certainly hate Sodomy, but I'll say it how it is, Islamic Shariah if anything, only cares about Public order, and doesn't care what people do in their privacy (apart from stuff like murder of course). And most sodomites do things "in their privacy". The only difference is, they can't go around bragging about it.Last edited by Perseveranze; 30-07-2012 at 17:40. -
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Im on my mobile so i cant highlight etc etc. But I follow the Quran i.e. If you kill a man its as if you killed the whole of mankind.. So im not rejecting anything.(Original post by Ilyas)
But it is your duty as a society to kill them.
"Homosexuality is one of the most disgusting sins and greatest crimes.... It is a vile perversion that goes against sound nature, and is one of the most corrupting and hideous sins.... The punishment for homosexuality is death. Both the active and passive participants are to be killed whether or not they have previously had sexual intercourse in the context of a legal marriage.... Some of the companions of the Prophet stated that [the perpetrator] is to be burned with fire. It has also been said that he should be stoned, or thrown from a high place."
Saudi Ministry of Education Textbooks for Islamic Studies: 2007-2008 Academic Year
Why are you rejecting the hadith? you are befriending a person who must be killed. If you reject these views you reject the views of Allah.
The saudi ministry or even Saudi Arabia as a whole should be taken with a shovel of salt. They dont follow Islam the way it should be.. They follow their own rules and pretend its Islam -
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Its my own personal experience though i do know some horrible people which is why the contrast is significant...(Original post by Politricks)
So the gay friends you have are nice because they just happen to be nice? Or are you suggesting their homosexuality makes them more polite and honest than heterosexuals? -
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Re: Are most British Muslims homophobic?'shut up' is this the best you could come up with. How old are, five?(Original post by thecookiemonster)
oh shut up being so defensive.
Anyway what wrong have I said, plus your just contradicting to what you said. By by being defensive. -
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Not every muslim lives in a shariah land. I live in the UK and I follow the british law. I dont go around cutting peoples hands off for stealing :P(Original post by Dragonfly07)
Except they do, according to shariah law. -
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Darn my lack of PC otherwise i could explain this properly... The "commandments" of Allah revolve around... Pray to Allah and live a good life. Believe in the prophets, fast/try hajj etc etc(Original post by Ilyas)
no, you Muslims must act. Islam condones the killing of homosexuals, if all Muslims had your view then all the Muslims are collectively disobeying the commandments of Allah.
I've never read a direct pieve saying go kill homosexuals... Any punishment stated revolves around Allah punishing homosexuals themselves... -
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Re: Are most British Muslims homophobic?But every muslim believes by definition that shariah law is flawless and has to be followed whenever possible.(Original post by JammyChoos)
Not every muslim lives in a shariah land. I live in the UK and I follow the british law. I dont go around cutting peoples hands off for stealing :P
