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Any graduates feel they'll be left behind in life? Read on...

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I only graduated a month ago and I feel awful already for living under my parents' roof not working. Have written 20-30 cover letters, sent off loads of cvs, and nothing back. I feel utterly hopeless which is further worsened by my mum and younger sister patronising me, and my mum trying to hold me back while I'm trying to apply for jobs and I just need to get out :frown:

I HATE being dependent on them, I want to put my degree to good use.

I'm just already reaching a point where I'm tired by writing lengthy cover letters when I know I won't get a response. Is anyone else feeling THIS?

Reply 41

Choo.choo

Original post by isawsparks89

Have you been applying for jobs since last year at the earliest?
If not, you should have.
I'd try to do something constructive whilst you look for work, as employers will ask you what you did when you weren't working, and you have to be ready to say you did such and such.
Don't have any periods of inactivity.

Reply 42

Fallen

People have to apply for jobs/internships in the months surrounding Christmas. Companies want new employees at desks soon after they graduate, which of course means having all the applications in 6-9 months in advance (or more) so they can do the selection, get all the NI details, get all the paperwork filled out and back, etc.

If you are applying for grad roles around the time most people are starting, it is no wonder that you struggle to even get responses. They probably just read it and think "Well... if you really wanted to work here why didn't you apply in the milkround like everyone else?". Even if they did overlook this, they are probably genuinely full this cycle.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 43

Fallen

It's not like you need to be spending 15 hours a week working on it, just keeping an eye out for good opportunities and having a good, up-to-date CV ready to send off if necessary. And with such long holidays it is not hard to find one day to sit down, research some companies, and send off some applications.

There probably are other people of the same mindset, but unfortunately they will struggle to find jobs quickly after university. You can't expect companies to wait until after graduation to find employees, and it will be the people who apply in the recruitment rounds that are far more likely to get jobs.

I spent probably a total of 4-5 hours these last 12 months writing and sending CVs/Cover letters. I can spend more time in a day procrastinating personally, and I think finding a job should be a fairly high priority. Nor have my grades (nor those of most people who find jobs and internships) suffered.

Reply 44

somethingbeautiful

This.

I was inundated with uni work in my final year and my dissertation in particular was extremely time consuming. It wasn't just the amount of work but the huge stress that came with it which made me decide that, for the sake of my health, I would focus only on my degree. I had one chance to get my 2:1, there are many opportunities to find a job. I wasn't even entertaining the idea of writing job applications and thinking about grad schemes when I was swamped with work and stress.

People cope differently, I wouldn't change how I handled the situation at all.

Reply 45

New- Emperor

A little I left uni in 2009 slap bang in the middle of rescission with a degree in IT for 4 years no one was hiring and technology moved on (4 years is a long time in this world) all my work began to go to waste all my knowledge became obsleat now i am stuck with a useless degree **** prospects so yeah i was ****ed over

Reply 46

New- Emperor

I am unemployed I am thinking of saving up as much JSA as i can and going back yo uni I am 27 now and i think am still young enough t do the whole say out late and have fun work like stick and all that stuff that uni holds i think I can do it again and maby do better now that I know how to study

thats true dude

Original post by New- Emperor

I graduated in 2009 and have since not had the opportunity to find a permanent career. I haven't given up though, occupying myself with doing temporary/contract jobs, learning about computing stuff and zBrush, which I thoroughly enjoy and constantly applying to games companies despite only getting rejections. In the last month though, I've given up on finding a job in the games industry as the company I worked for before (Jagex) just wasn't good at all and focused on what I (and everyone else) know I do well, which is IT & Computing Support. I'm now applying to various companies in London, which is where I want to be and things are looking positive. :smile:

You'll get there tho, just be persistent and never give up!

P.S. I also thought my degree was pointless but it taught me so many different things in computing!

Reply 49

MagicNMedicine

Original post by dusk

Ok, first off, there are LOTS OF JOBS IN GEOPHYSICS! If you're saving for the Imperial course, I suggest you apply NOW because they also offer a lot of scholarships. I did the geophysics masters last year, applied in July, and was offered a full scholarship plus living allowance. If you're not up for an MSc straight away, I suggest you get on to applying to survey/processing service companies. Bigger companies include PGS, CGG Veritas, Fugro and WesternGeco, and, unlike the oil and gas majors, don't require/'prefer' an MSc. I used to work offshore for a survey contractor, and post MSc I work in gas exploration. You are correct about the MSc making a big difference though - the Imperial and Leeds courses are very industry focussed, and get a lot of attention/money from the bigger companies (not just oil and gas majors, but consultancies and service companies too). If you want to message me for any more geophysics spiel, please feel free!

I went to Leeds, although I didn't do an Earth Sciences course myself, I lived with guys that did the Masters there, and not only them but pretty much everybody on their Masters cohort got good jobs. The only downside was those MScs were expensive, at the time they were on scholarships from the research council NERC that paid some of their fees so that helped, and they had a LOT of work during the course, it looked seriously hard but once they had finished they were sorted for jobs. From what I remember them saying though, it's specific areas that have the great job opps, they were doing Exploration Geophysics. I think the other one was Structural Geophysics.

I also got the impression that Leeds was quite specialised in those areas, in that it is overall a "decent" uni that's not quite at the top table, but in Exploration Geophysics it was at the top table because they had very good industry links and the guys that run the course had been doing it for years. Some of the students had turned down Imperial and Cambridge to go on the Leeds course which wouldn't happen in other subjects.

Lots of the people that did their course are working overseas and they are earning high salaries although they assure me that the work is often physically demanding and in extreme weather conditions as well as requiring a lot of technical knowledge and use of maths...so its not for everybody.

Reply 50

Choo.choo

Original post by isawsparks89

No, I haven't been. I wasn't sure what I was going to come out with (stupid excuse I guess)

Hm, I'm translating (working on language skills), jobhunting and I'm trying to lose shedloads of weight in my time, it's productive but probably not the productivity they want to hear about?

No, they want to hear that you've been doing things that will give you evidence of the required/relevant skills for the job (if not recently, then further back in the past)
The second and third reasons are absolute nonsense and definitely not what they want to hear. They aren't interested that you're trying to lose weight or looking for jobs, they want to hear that you can do the job they're offering you, and better than the other candidates who applied.

Reply 51

mya369

This thread is terrifying.

Reply 52

Arsene Wenger

Original post by mya369

This thread is terrifying.

How so?

Reply 53

wanderlust.xx

Original post by mya369

This thread is terrifying.

I remember when I was saying the same thing. I tried to change my situation but still ended up in the same place. It's unfortunate but it happens.

Out of the 6 immediate maths grad friends that graduated with me from RHUL, 3 obtained 2:2's, one a 2:1 and two firsts.

One who got a first is in a role they got from their parent which didn't require a degree or even A levels for that matter. The other bloke with a first (yours truly) is currently on the dole, looking for a job somewhere. I've tailored my apps, scrutinised my CV and I just need to get a cover letter together to ask for some free work experience.

Bloke with a 2:1 just signed on today. The 3 with a 2:2 are all searching diligently. One of them might get a job as a games tester which is £6.75 an hour. Peanuts, basically.

Out of the entire course, a lot of people are going on to do masters courses. One bloke's doing a masters but has a job as a stockbroker because of his cousin. Another bloke got a job at Deloitte in Audit through constant bootlicking and coffee making. A girl had been offered a job at an accountancy firm because her dad works as one. These examples were prior to graduation, so I don't know how they're doing right now.

I'm not claiming that RHUL is a **** uni, but it has a hardy reputation and clearly isn't at the bottom of the pile. Still, people are finding it hard to find anything right now, but that might just be because it's the slump period between July and September. Opportunities will open in September but that's a month away. Many people would kill for a good degree in Maths from any mid tier uni like RHUL, QMUL, Essex, etc. Obviously you'd prefer a maths degree from Cambridge, Imperial, LSE, Warwick... but you'd imagine that a maths grad has a lot of qualities employers like. Again, I'm not saying we're entitled to anything because we're not, and a lack of experience hurts, but it's ridiculous when you have so many talented grads with nowhere to go.

All I'm saying is that contacts get you everywhere right now. The recession's still hitting hard, and even though it's improving, it's still quite bad.

Having spoken to other first class maths grads from Warwick, Leicester and Surrey, they're all in the same position. It's pretty **** right now, but you can't sit there and expect to ride it out. Do something about it now before you end up like me, regretting every choice I've made in my first and second year. I wish someone had told me to get out there and get some relevant experience, but then again they shouldn't have had to.

Rant over, but I do hope I scared you enough into taking some action.

Reply 54

turgon

Glad to see that I'm not alone. I've been fortunate enough to fund a Masters in a vocational discipline (which I start in October), even so, I'm sick and tired of getting rejected, and I'm horribly afraid that I won't be able to get a job even after spending another 15k. I graduated with a 2:2 in Maths from one of the top four universities in the country, and it seems like not many people care for it.

The lesson learned in hindsight? Stay away from academic subjects. No one gives a s*** about them in today's climate. For every grad scheme or big firm job you've probably got several applicants with highly specialised relevant degrees and perhaps relevant work experience, how can a generic academic degree compare to that? Without nepotism it seems close to impossible to get a first job with an unrelated degree.

I'm personally hoping to apply for grad schemes in September onwards, but I've not got high expectations as even with an MSc I think a 2:2 is going to put me at a disadvantage, and I'm not particularly good with bull****ing at these HR interivews (although I'm hoping to practice over summer).

As someone said ealier on (which I only recently found out), there are in fact LOTS of smaller companies that recruit people, typically from January to May after the big grad schemes have closed. My advice to anyone struggling to get a first job with an academic degree or a 2:2 is to perhaps look to specialise in a vocational qualification, some degrees are even completely funded! Also, stay away from the big companies that have grad schemes and are on the Top100 employers and so forth, these are advertised so much they are bound to be more competitive. Instead trawl through the internet for smaller companies that no-one has heard of, the chances are their recruitment process will be a lot simpler and less competitive.

Also, (and this is the hardest part for me), be PATIENT. At this time of year there will be very few jobs available, and even from September to December it will mainly be the big firms recruiting for grad programmes. Instead, do the research and practise on interview techniques for when the job adverts do start coming out.

Reply 55

wanderlust.xx

Original post by turgon

I'm not sure I agree with the first point, though I definitely agree with the two. Although I have a maths degree, I feel like I'm in an infinitely better position than those graduating with degrees in languages, business, management and accounting positions. Fair enough, they'll have some relate able stuff to talk about in applications, but the sheer weight that a maths degree has in the world is nothing to take lightly. There's a reason why maths, physics and chemistry degrees are commonly responded with an "OH WOW". In fact, the woman at the job centre did the same thing with me.

When the economy recovers, more jobs are available or when we establish some crucial work experience, there's nothing stopping a traditional academic degree holder from getting an entry level position somewhere incredible.

As far as the second point goes, yes, nepotism is unfortunately the most beneficial tool to graduates. That and luck.

Reply 56

Chrisateen

Original post by turgon

I sort of understand your point about degree choices. I think that those who choose a more vocational subject or one where they get a year in industry have a better chance of getting a job but also those who do academic subjects also do well (but may need to do more to stand out from other graduates)

With regards to your point about applying for smaller companies I 100% agree with you. When I sort of knew that it was likely I would end up with a 2.2 and after applying for a few grad schemes that ask for a 2.2 and didn't even get past the first round I decided to no longer bother about applying for them and focused on applying for jobs directly which worked for me and I manage to get a few interviews and found out I got a job the day before my graduation.

However the problems with applying for smaller companies or jobs directly is that the more work experience you have the more chance you have of getting the job and is more likely to be competing with candidates who have years of experience. Which is why its important as students to try and get some work during term time/ summer holidays even if it is not directly related to your career plans having some experience that is not related is better than having no experience at all. Also experience is really important when applying for smaller companies as most of them ask interview/application questions in which you need to use previous work experience in order to answer the questions.

However I do agree that if you have a 2.2 or you apply for lots of grad schemes and not even getting through to the first few stages at all one's best bet is to apply for

Reply 57

username728604

I understand your frustration but you do come across as snobbish and self-entitled here. Doing a vocational course does not make you an idiot, academia and intelligence are not one and the same thing. You can slight them all you want but someone with a firm understanding of business is of more benefit to the working world simply because they are more likely to have commercial awareness.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 58

lcsurfer

But you have to think in the real world of work... my job is all vocational and they don't want to hire someone who is purely academic and theory, they want people with vocational and life skills...
thousands of people have science degrees each year, only 50 people graduate with my degree and we have industrial experience (FYI i didn't do a business degree) and employability... Just because you studied chemistry at a top 20 uni doesn't mean you are better than people who did business at a poly, different skills

Reply 59

lcsurfer

I did not do business i did disaster management and now work in it. The job market is bad but it is all about contacts, who you know, links into industry... there are hunderd of physics/maths students and speaking from experience if an 18 year old has 2 years of office experience or work compared to a 21 yr old graduate who has never had a job with a degree, I'd got for the 18 year old because of the experience...
Obviously they want someone with relevant knowledge (as you stated)... Your best bet will be to find someone you know or just chat to people, linkedin is a great tool for that! and networking. Go an offer to volunteer for a few weeks as you will get your name out there. I Haven't been unemployed since the age of 14, its takes hard work and dedication.