[pshewitt1]

just wondering if I'm right in thinking as they get their results earlier they get to go into clearing as well? giving them several weeks more than us ( the rest of the UK) and a horribly unfair advantage of a university education? then on top of which they pay half what we do?(if they go to a Scottish uni)? IF I'm wrong please say, if not shouldn't the government really do something about it?

[MancStudent098]

Surely clearing can't operate until the universities know the results of all UK students and therefore how many unfilled places they've got to put in the system.

[johndoranglasgow]

Good luck with that, education is a devolved matter - really nothing to be done. Don't get all jelly over the 9k tuition, there's one Tory MP up here

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by MancStudent098)
Surely clearing can't operate until the universities know the results of all UK students and therefore how many unfilled places they've got to put in the system.

that's what I thought would happen, but others have said differently?

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by johndoranglasgow)
Good luck with that, education is a devolved matter - really nothing to be done. Don't get all jelly over the 9k tuition, there's one Tory MP up here

well if you're being like that I pray that Scotland gains it's independence and see where that leads

[LSD]

Clearing opens to Scottish students as soon as their exam results are out (beginning of august) but I think only Scottish universities appear on the list, so we don't get an advantage over the rest of the UK and get to take up places in their universities that early.

As for paying half of what you do, we don't actually pay anything, we're all funded ;s


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

[roh]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
well if you're being like that I pray that Scotland gains it's independence and see where that leads

Leads to us getting free education in Scotland under EU law regarding discrimination on the grounds of nationality, the same as other EU nationals, as it stops being a purely internal issue.

Unless we quit the EU obviously.

[johndoranglasgow]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
well if you're being like that I pray that Scotland gains it's independence and see where that leads

I'm not in favour of independence in the slightest, but England gets its fair share of perks so you can't get all snippy when higher education operates in a much more reasonable way up here.

Also, Tories raised your tuition and they sure as hell didn't get their seats in Scotland. So how is it unfair?

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by johndoranglasgow)
I'm not in favour of independence in the slightest, but England gets its fair share of perks so you can't get all snippy when higher education operates in a much more reasonable way up here.

Also, Tories raised your tuition and they sure as hell didn't get their seats in Scotland. So how is it unfair?

actually the average scot gets a lot more spent upon them per person than each Britain, which perks do we get exactly?

I'm not fussed about the tuition fee rise, it favoured more than hindered students, people were just incapable of reading what actually happened. as proved on my last thread

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by roh)
Leads to us getting free education in Scotland under EU law regarding discrimination on the grounds of nationality, the same as other EU nationals, as it stops being a purely internal issue.

Unless we quit the EU obviously.

what -_-

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by LSD)
Clearing opens to Scottish students as soon as their exam results are out (beginning of august) but I think only Scottish universities appear on the list, so we don't get an advantage over the rest of the UK and get to take up places in their universities that early.

As for paying half of what you do, we don't actually pay anything, we're all funded ;s


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

ahh thanks for that

and I heard the Scottish tuition fees are now the same as what we used to pay before the new scheme?

[LSD]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
ahh thanks for that

and I heard the Scottish tuition fees are now the same as what we used to pay before the new scheme?

I think they might be. My fees are still £1820 per year because that's what they were when I started uni. Though I still don't have to pay them, the government do. I think they might be around £3000 now but I'm not sure. the government still pays for all scottish students regardless. It may be £3000 for other uk students.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

[johndoranglasgow]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
actually the average scot gets a lot more spent upon them per person than each Britain, which perks do we get exactly?

I'm not fussed about the tuition fee rise, it favoured more than hindered students, people were just incapable of reading what actually happened. as proved on my last thread

Yeah okay, things are brilliant up here and crap down there - whatever you say :P

This year 64 universities are intending to charge the goverment's maximum, that fact alone will scare off a lot of working class people from study. Whether you consider it to be better off for students or not is irrelevant, the negative image that was presented alongside an obviously huge increase would discourage a lot of people.

[roh]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
what -_-

Currently EU nationals pay nothing in Scotland because that's the deal some home students get. Same rule means we pay nothing in, for example Sweden, and other EU nationals pay 9k fees at English unis rather than full international fees. This is all because of a rule which stops discrimination on the grounds of nationality by one EU country against an EU national. Essentially, in terms of higher ed, EU nationals must be treated the same as home nationals of that country.

However, currently Britain is part of the EU as the UK, thus the ECJ and EU institutions treat devolution and all that comes with it as 'purely internal matters', and doesn't interfere based on sovereignty arguments. So, you can discriminate against your own nationals all you like and for whatever reason you like (within the confines of the European Convention on Human Rights) just not against other EU nationals based on their nationality.

So at the moment the tuition fees issue is viewed as the discrimination against people who hold British passports within Britian, and thus not the EU's problem. But, if Scotland were to become independent it would be discrimination by a Scottish government against other EU nationals, namely Britons, and follow the same rule as a Spanish person coming to university in England. That rule is equal treatment with home nationals, so in England 9k fees and a Student Finance loan, and, assuming Scotland still had no tuition fees, would be no tuition fees for British students attending university in Scotland.

Hope this is clear

[johndoranglasgow]

(Original post by LSD)
I think they might be. My fees are still £1820 per year because that's what they were when I started uni. Though I still don't have to pay them, the government do. I think they might be around £3000 now but I'm not sure. the government still pays for all scottish students regardless. It may be £3000 for other uk students.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

No they're not. Your tuition is £1820 because you're Scottish. Last year Scottish universities were allowed to raise their tuition accordingly - some went for the full 9k and others chose to cap it around £27,000. The whole point was so Scotland didn't become the cheap alternative and see a big spike in English applicants.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-15126753

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by johndoranglasgow)
Yeah okay, things are brilliant up here and crap down there - whatever you say :P

This year 64 universities are intending to charge the goverment's maximum, that fact alone will scare off a lot of working class people from study. Whether you consider it to be better off for students or not is irrelevant, the negative image that was presented alongside an obviously huge increase would discourage a lot of people.

I'm not joking :L could you at least say what perks we have?

yes but the only reason they are scared is because they have no idea what has happened they've listened to the daily mail and the sun and gone, oh no this is terrible. when in fact they are getting a higher maintenance loan to cover expenses meaning they will be less stressed and idealistically score higher at university. on top of this most degree's that are offered at universities will not give the chance of earning over 21,000 so they won't even be paying back that "debt"? it isn't even a debt it's a tax...anyone who had read through and understood what they are signing up to will understand that they are getting a better deal, the people who aren't doing this sort of thing shouldn't be going to university, they have shown a complete lack of intelligence and independence.

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by roh)
Currently EU nationals pay nothing in Scotland because that's the deal some home students get. Same rule means we pay nothing in, for example Sweden, and other EU nationals pay 9k fees at English unis rather than full international fees. This is all because of a rule which stops discrimination on the grounds of nationality by one EU country against an EU national. Essentially, in terms of higher ed, EU nationals must be treated the same as home nationals of that country.

However, currently Britain is part of the EU as the UK, thus the ECJ and EU institutions treat devolution and all that comes with it as 'purely internal matters', and doesn't interfere based on sovereignty arguments. So, you can discriminate against your own nationals all you like and for whatever reason you like (within the confines of the European Convention on Human Rights) just not against other EU nationals based on their nationality.

So at the moment the tuition fees issue is viewed as the discrimination against people who hold British passports within Britian, and thus not the EU's problem. But, if Scotland were to become independent it would be discrimination by a Scottish government against other EU nationals, namely Britons, and follow the same rule as a Spanish person coming to university in England. That rule is equal treatment with home nationals, so in England 9k fees and a Student Finance loan, and, assuming Scotland still had no tuition fees, would be no tuition fees for British students either.

Hope this is clear

I meant what -_- in the sense of disbelief :L not misunderstanding haha, but thanks for expanding anyway

[rawragee]

We get our results nine days earlier than the A level results I think, and we don't get a massive advantage because of this really as universities will only know which Scottish applicants have missed their offers surely?

[roh]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
I meant what -_- in the sense of disbelief :L not misunderstanding haha, but thanks for expanding anyway

Oh right, sorry. Yeah, it makes more sense when seen in the broader context of EU law, but can seem odd applied in cases like this.

The flood of Brit students going North for free tuition would blow a huge hole in the Scottish education budget, but within the importance of the wider economic impact of certain precedents regarding free movement of persons that hole would be chicken feed.

If Scotland tried to stop it there is already case law regarding French medical students in Belgium which would put a stop to such an attempt.

Ironically, just as it looks plausible we could get this little perk it seems we are moving towards quitting the EU thus, in a hypothetical yes on both referendums of independence and quitting the EU respectively, saving Scotland's financial bacon!

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by rawragee)
We get our results nine days earlier than the A level results I think, and we don't get a massive advantage because of this really as universities will only know which Scottish applicants have missed their offers surely?

the clearing situation however allowing the Scottish to take British places before we even get our grades is a massive disadvantage, places are all gone within 2 days...