[Metrobeans]

Speaker's note: This motion is not binding and should this motion pass, it will not instigate an EU referendum, nor officially call for one.

M111 - EU Referendum Motion, barnetlad

This House notes the TSR Government proposed budget and the desire to end VAT. THis House therefore feels that this effectively would be stopping payments to the EU.

This House therefore feels that a TSR referendum should be held at the earliest time the MHofC rules allow

[toronto353]

Aye and I welcome barnetlad's first serious motion - I hope that he gets points for this! The FCO is working on plans to do with our relationship with the EU and I will be pushing for a referendum. Our relationship with the EU has altered. We have the canon amendment which overrides EU law and free trade is worldwide. There are few benefits left and so we should either legislate in this House to leave the EU this term or hold a referendum next term.

Well done barnetlad!

[jesusandtequila]

The EU isn't paid for by VAT receipts, it comes out of general taxation.

[JPKC]

Hmmm. Barnetlad, you should join a party if you want to do serious stuff. I'm unsure that all those MRLP fans that voted for you will appreciate this.

[Morgsie]

There was a Referendum a while ago and the vote was IN FAVOUR of continued Membership

[toronto353]

(Original post by Morgsie)
There was a Referendum a while ago and the vote was IN FAVOUR of continued Membership

However, our relationship with the EU has changed since that referendum. Free trade isn't limited to the EU any more for example and there are moves to begin repatriating further powers. There is little point in remaining a hollow member of the EU when we're moving closer and closer to the peripheries and, hopefully, out of the EU.

[meenu89]

Aye Aye.
Just to make sure; Aye.

[Rhadamanthus]

I was under the impression it all went into one big pot. It's like saying Welsh cider tax pays for the unemployed of Aberdeen - technically, yeah, but it's all the same money.

[Morgsie]

The Internal Market, CFSP, Funds from the EU etc.

Wales gets a lot of cash from the EU. Basically you don't want the UK to benefit from its membership of the EU.

[toronto353]

(Original post by Morgsie)
The Internal Market, CFSP, Funds from the EU etc.

Wales gets a lot of cash from the EU. Basically you don't want the UK to benefit from its membership of the EU.

In cash terms, there may be some benefits for some regions, but the politics of the EU destroys any benefits. It is time for a referendum on our new deal. The internal market isn't applicable here any more Morgsie because free trade is worldwide. Some aspects apply, but not all.

[A Mysterious Lord]

A great big AYE.

[ukip72]

You can't argue against a referendum

GSTQ

[Life_peer]

Aye.

[Jarred]

Absolutely an aye. Anyone disagreeing with the prospect of a referendum is also disagreeing with the whole concept of democracy.

We can't ever achieve consensus politics, it's impractical, but for affairs which affect our very constitutional makeup, or at least how our political affairs are handled, it is completely unjust to deny the British people a say. We voted in '73 I believe it was, for a common market. The EU is much more than that today, and we never got a say, we didn't even get a say on the recent Lisbon Treaty when we should've done.

The Europhiles need legitimacy to their claim that we should remain in the EU and this is the way to get it.
The Euroskeptics like me need the vote to get what we want.

It's a win-win for both sides. I would however like to say that VAT doesn't fund the EU, it's funded through general taxation like J&T said. Also can I say that the fact we're already breaking EU law with a 4% VAT rate, means that what I proposed regarding VAT doesn't really break any more EU laws than we're already breaking (law is to have a VAT rate of at least 15%), plus we have the Canon Amendment so it doesn't matter anyway.

[chrisawhitmore]

(Original post by Morgsie)
The Internal Market, CFSP, Funds from the EU etc.

Wales gets a lot of cash from the EU. Basically you don't want the UK to benefit from its membership of the EU.

If the UK was to leave the EU, and continued funding every EU scheme in the UK as well as paying contributions to joint scientific projects like ITER, we would spend £9bn per year less than we currently give to the EU.

Though I thought that any referendum would have to wait until next term anyway?

[Mazzini]

Aye, although I shall cast my vote in favour of staying in the EU.

[toronto353]

(Original post by chrisawhitmore)
If the UK was to leave the EU, and continued funding every EU scheme in the UK as well as paying contributions to joint scientific projects like ITER, we would spend £9bn per year less than we currently give to the EU.

Though I thought that any referendum would have to wait until next term anyway?

It does which is why the motion calls for a referendum to be held at the earliest possible time as allowed by the MHoC rules.

[Lady Maleficent]

I don't believe in a tyranny of the majority.

[lambert1]

(Original post by Lady Maleficent)
I don't believe in a tyranny of the majority.

Assad called, he wants his views on democracy back.

[Morgsie]

I thought Labour already had a Referendum in the pipeline for next term?

We will lose some influence if we pull out of the EU. As for things have changed, I have heard that one before because there was a Referendum back in 1975 which was in favour of Continued Membership (Labour changed the terms of Membership)

If a Referendum goes ahead on here then I will vote for Continued Membership because the benefits outweigh the arguments of pulling out. Europe needs reform but not in this way, Institutional; Reform: There is talk of merging the Commission President and European Council President and electi8ng it, giving the European Parliament the right of initiative etc