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My view on your opening ceremony

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    Well thank you for your view on our opening ceremony, and I must say that having lived in Scotland since I was nine months old I haven't ever heard anyone refer to Westminster as the 'English government'. I'm with L i b on this one.
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    Your view of England is hilariously wrong.
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    (Original post by Mockery)
    Wales is that British, it angers me that their flag isn't represented in the Union Jack.
    Doesn't help much that their flag was only developed in 1959. Maybe if they'd made a bit more noise in 1603, things would've been different.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Doesn't help much that their flag was only developed in 1959. Maybe if they'd made a bit more noise in 1603, things would've been different.
    Because the Union Jack may never be redesigned, for it will throw the universe into a state of anarchy!
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    (Original post by L i b)
    No they don't. I've lived in Scotland almost my entire life and never heard anyone call the British Government that - quite frankly, I'd think them an utter idiot if they did.



    Indeed, which completely contradicts what you said and what I objected to. You're a peculiar fellow, forming an argument around quoting sources which completely verify my claims.

    The UK Government never at any time 'banned' the Welsh language. Any discouragement of it being spoken in Welsh schools was as a result of the policies of local school boards, headteachers and so forth. Sitting around blaming the English for everything is the very worst sort of petty racism that you can find in these Isles.

    In recent times, the UK Government has in fact poured considerable amounts of money into the preservation of the Welsh language.
    Fair enough, but I can't exactly toss into the bin what I was taught in school and passed down through my family. I'm not exactly an intelligent person, so maybe I might be on the wrong forum. But I don't think any 'evidence' would still be kept today for something as sick as the Welsh Not, ask any Welsh person who speaks the Welsh language fluently about the Welsh Not and he/she will be happy to tell you about it. It did not happen in a minority of schools, because my friends in Uni who comes from all corners of Wales also know a lot about the subject.

    Sorry to the ones I made an offence to with this thread.
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    That's very funny, because I have yet to see anyone call the government the 'English government'. I guess you only hang around with the hardcore Plaid Cymru lot lol.
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    (Original post by CJCymru)
    I seriously recommend you learning your own history before writing a daft comment like that. Why on earth do you think there are so many castles in Wales?? They were built because the English had been struggling for centuries to claim the land and control the people of Wales. I was taught this in bloody school.
    Seriously?
    Did you read the post you replied to, or is this a joke?!
    What they said was, that not in our life times, nor many years before have the Welsh been oppressed by the English, so regardless of how many castles there are in Wales designed to protect the Welsh from the English and what your 'bloody school' taught you, the point remains, that there hasn't been a level of oppression, or a need for said castles in our lifetimes, nor many years before.
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    I am welsh but do agree with the majority that I don't call Parliament the 'english government' but it is pretty well regarded in Wales that we feel like we have relatively small impact on any decisions made in Parliament and that the English have a great deal more. (Im not saying this is wrong, how Parliament is structured and how it works, just that this is how some people feel so I can understand the reasons why some people may call/think of it as the 'english government)

    It is a well known fact that England has oppressed Wales in the past. I am by no means saying recently because they haven't. The basic story of it is, just like how centuries and centuries ago the English tried to invade scotland but failed - well they pretty much succeeded in invading Wales and settled there (mainly along the border and south east/north east though - hence the little pockets of welsh speakers still in SW,W,NW Wales especially)

    Oh and all that talk about the castles. Some were built to defend from the Romans, others to defend from neighbouring welsh territories (they used to be ruled by different people until Gruffydd ap Llywelyn - he ruled them all at once between 1057-1063 until he was killed by the King of England at the time...)

    Additionally, I can say with a reasonable degree of confidence that the welsh are not jealous of the english. We have no reason to be, as any english people have no reason to be jealous of us or of scottish people etc. At the end of the day we are all British whether we consider ourselves to be or not and we all have a right to be proud of the opening Olympic Ceremony because it was pretty good!!
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    (Original post by CJCymru)
    I seriously recommend you learning your own history before writing a daft comment like that. Why on earth do you think there are so many castles in Wales?? They were built because the English had been struggling for centuries to claim the land and control the people of Wales. I was taught this in bloody school.
    Yes, hundreds of years ago. I used the phrase "many years" - so unless you think "many years" equates to "several centuries" that was a completely unwarranted response.

    England and Wales have been close united allies since way before you were born, they're not divided rival countries any more. I should hope you were taught that in school as well.
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    (Original post by Alyss05)
    It is a well known fact that England has oppressed Wales in the past.
    Come off it. Governments oppress people - virtually every government in history is, at some stage, responsible for that. Welsh identity has flourished, however, whilst - say - Mercian or Cumbrian identity means very little to people. If anywhere has been more clearly 'oppressed' by the state in cultural terms, it is England.

    Turning what all governments do into an ethnic issue is extremely dodgy. If, for example, you're going to suggest the expansion of the Kingdom of England into Wales was an oppressive act, you must also see the very creation of Wales - one 'state' conquering others - as such an act.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Turning what all governments do into an ethnic issue is extremely dodgy. If, for example, you're going to suggest the expansion of the Kingdom of England into Wales was an oppressive act, you must also see the very creation of Wales - one 'state' conquering others - as such an act.
    What "creation of Wales"? There was no such creation of Wales by conquest. Of course the English/Norman conquest was an oppression. Displacement of native traditional law systems, denying natives the rights to any kind of office, occupation of rich agricultural land, enclosed colonial boroughs which controlled the land and trade, huge military fortresses that kept the people in check through intimidation... I could go on.

    Also just to say, I don't call the British government the "English government" either.
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    lol this is ****ing hilarious.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Come off it. Governments oppress people - virtually every government in history is, at some stage, responsible for that. Welsh identity has flourished, however, whilst - say - Mercian or Cumbrian identity means very little to people. If anywhere has been more clearly 'oppressed' by the state in cultural terms, it is England.

    Turning what all governments do into an ethnic issue is extremely dodgy. If, for example, you're going to suggest the expansion of the Kingdom of England into Wales was an oppressive act, you must also see the very creation of Wales - one 'state' conquering others - as such an act.
    I never mentioned if other governments have oppressed people before. So I don't know why you mentioned that because I never said that didn't happen. All I said was: that in the past welsh (or Celtic, whatever you want to call those people at that time) people have been oppressed by England, and that is a correct statement.
    Also I'm interested in knowing how England has been oppressed in 'cultural terms'.
    The creation of Wales was not an oppressive act, it was simply a naming term. In the past there used to be kingdoms making up what we know now as 'Wales' each with separate kings ruling them until one king managed to rule over all. He was also the last King as the then King of England killed him.
    I don't even see why we are delving so far into all of this. At the end of the day the OP is entitled to his opinion of the opening ceremony if you think it wrong or right. It's not like he's setting off a bomb on the Tube is it?
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    (Original post by CJCymru)
    I'm Welsh, haven't got any connections to England whatsoever. I've never even been to London in all my life, and I'm 21! So I don't look at myself as 'British'. I recently read a quote by a top MP which he stated that 'British' is a way of extending English culture over England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland - which I do agree with. But bare with me now!

    I didn't have high expectations at all for the opening ceremony, most of people I know also felt the same, "oh England will make a fool of themselves cause they think they're 'special' when they're not." Anyway, that aside, when I watched it, I was STUNNED at how fantastic and epic the ceremony was.

    I didn't expect people with different skin colors would be used. What I've been taught all my life is that the English are very stubborn and don't accept other cultures into their society. Heck, here's a fun fact for you to know while I'm at it, your English government banned the Welsh language from being spoken anywhere in Wales around a century ago. It was the Welsh Not period. Children would be punished if they said a word of Welsh in schools, and would have to wear a plank of wood around their neck with the words Welsh Not engraved into it. It was also banned from being spoken at homes, and this lasted many years. I still wonder everyday now and then how on earth am I still speaking the language on a daily basis.

    Click to enlarge
    Attachment 165717

    I just couldn't believe the fact that one of your themes was multiculturalism, that alone as changed the way I feel about England a lot. The industrial age history lesson sent shivers down my back, the soundtrack was top class, your Bond and Queen parachute scene was hilarious, and the the Mr Bean bit was genius for me. For the first time in my life, I would be happy to call myself a British person. And also for the first time, I can feel patriotism watching the games.

    If my great great grandparents were alive today, they would never believe they're eyes watching the ceremony just down to the fact that it was multiculturalism. And I do understand why some of you are p****d off because the claim of multiculturalism was planned in order to boost the economy or something like that (sorry if I'm wrong, I don't understand politics that well). But anyway, that alone is what makes Britain special today in my opinion, is that we accept other cultures and do not feel threatened by them. Heck, I'm sure in a few decades the world will unite as one and will have one culture, and that's what will stop wars and reduce the differences between us all.

    Sorry if this thread didn't have any structure or anything!
    oh god, don't tell me the welsh are at it now too ?

    what is it with you "countries" like wales, scotland etc

    nobody outside of England even knows that you exist, stop trying to pretend that you count as a country and just accept your place as part of Britain lol

    honestly I don't know what all the england hate is about, it's stupid really, don't be such a 'divider', be a 'unifier' instead , I always think less lines on map is better than more lines
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    (Original post by Sheep)
    oh god, don't tell me the welsh are at it now too ?

    what is it with you "countries" like wales, scotland etc

    nobody outside of England even knows that you exist, stop trying to pretend that you count as a country and just accept your place as part of Britain lol

    honestly I don't know what all the england hate is about, it's stupid really, don't be such a 'divider', be a 'unifier' instead , I always think less lines on map is better than more lines
    S/he might be saying a few things people don't enjoy about England - and to be fair, they aren't exactly saying anything wrong about England but more about multi-culturalism, you can't exactly get at them for having a legitimate opinion and then fill your own post with inaccurate and offensive points!

    Think it's fair to say that given the rich culture and history of Wales, and that of Scotland, it really is rather unfair and untrue to say such things - shows a bit of ignorance on your part unfortunately.
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    (Original post by CJCymru)
    I'm Welsh, haven't got any connections to England whatsoever. I've never even been to London in all my life, and I'm 21! So I don't look at myself as 'British'. I recently read a quote by a top MP which he stated that 'British' is a way of extending English culture over England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland - which I do agree with. But bare with me now!

    I didn't have high expectations at all for the opening ceremony, most of people I know also felt the same, "oh England will make a fool of themselves cause they think they're 'special' when they're not." Anyway, that aside, when I watched it, I was STUNNED at how fantastic and epic the ceremony was.

    I didn't expect people with different skin colors would be used. What I've been taught all my life is that the English are very stubborn and don't accept other cultures into their society. Heck, here's a fun fact for you to know while I'm at it, your English government banned the Welsh language from being spoken anywhere in Wales around a century ago. It was the Welsh Not period. Children would be punished if they said a word of Welsh in schools, and would have to wear a plank of wood around their neck with the words Welsh Not engraved into it. It was also banned from being spoken at homes, and this lasted many years. I still wonder everyday now and then how on earth am I still speaking the language on a daily basis.

    Click to enlarge
    Attachment 165717

    I just couldn't believe the fact that one of your themes was multiculturalism, that alone as changed the way I feel about England a lot. The industrial age history lesson sent shivers down my back, the soundtrack was top class, your Bond and Queen parachute scene was hilarious, and the the Mr Bean bit was genius for me. For the first time in my life, I would be happy to call myself a British person. And also for the first time, I can feel patriotism watching the games.

    If my great great grandparents were alive today, they would never believe they're eyes watching the ceremony just down to the fact that it was multiculturalism. And I do understand why some of you are p****d off because the claim of multiculturalism was planned in order to boost the economy or something like that (sorry if I'm wrong, I don't understand politics that well). But anyway, that alone is what makes Britain special today in my opinion, is that we accept other cultures and do not feel threatened by them. Heck, I'm sure in a few decades the world will unite as one and will have one culture, and that's what will stop wars and reduce the differences between us all.

    Sorry if this thread didn't have any structure or anything!
    You had to ruin it at the end. :rolleyes:
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    As a Cardiff resident... wow, OP, just wow. Glad to see I live in the same country with complete morons.

    (Original post by L i b)
    Doesn't help much that their flag was only developed in 1959. Maybe if they'd made a bit more noise in 1603, things would've been different.
    In all fairness, it had been used quite commonly before '59; that was the date it was officially recognised as the flag of Wales. Plus in 1603 Wales was under English control and was for the most part a part of England, so no viewpoints could really have been raised without some sort of revolution.
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    (Original post by CJCymru)
    that is rich mate, Welsh is one of the oldest languages still being spoken in the world. Welsh, Scotts and Irish descended from the Celts. The Celts first roamed in the land of what we call Britain today, then the Roman Empire came and claimed the land. Get your facts right, I can talk about this subject all night long.
    More than Britain, in fact just Google celtic and the 3rd pic on Google Images is this:

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    London was Britain's bid for the Olympics not England's. The opening ceremony was no more England's than it was Wales, Scotland or NI.
    WE COMPETE AS TEAM GB.

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