Is the NHS the envy of the world???
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Re: Is the NHS the envy of the world???It is very likely.(Original post by AdvanceAndVanquish)
It would be nice if there was a source for such a claim, as it both contradicts what I've read and seems very unlikely.
This source http://www.who.int/whosis/whostat/EN_WHS09_Table7.pdf shows that the USA spend more of their overall government spending on healthcare (as a percentage) (UK=16% USA=20%)
This source http://www.whatswrongwiththeworld.ne...alth_care.html has the per capita health care spending of public tax money. The USA is the 4th highest, the UK is 12th. This http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL34175_20070917.pdf is the original source from that, report for the US congress.
This is just another to add into the sources: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/he...lic-per-capita
I could find more, I'm sure, if I had a little more time. A few google searches and you'd find plenty more sources.
I don't know where I originally found it, but these are facts. They spend far more government tax money on healthcare than us, and then pay a premium on top. -
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Re: Is the NHS the envy of the world???The US has a worse system of healthcare than ours, in almost every important rate they perform worse and 1/6 of the country has no access to to healthcare while the healthcare system routinely bankrupts the middle class. Those that can afford private healthcare in the US can afford it here also and often get it. And for cost-effectiveness it's even worse, despite not having universal healthcare the government spend as much as we do with the spending being equaled by the private sector.(Original post by AdvanceAndVanquish)
As I've noted before, the NHS can best be described as the envy of the third world. It provides reasonably-acceptable health care, free at the point of entry, which is beyond the wildest dreams of someone in the Sudan, but coming from the States it's pretty shocking how medieval a lot of the facilities and procedures are in comparison. I think a lot of British people just don't know that there's anything better, and of course are constantly told how much everyone envies them. -
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Re: Is the NHS the envy of the world???Yes; expect in America where conservatives (Ultra Republicans) spread lies so most people in America think in Britain while we have universal healthcare facilities but the trade off being really poor care and treatment (a massive lie). Also in Scandinavia they probably don't envy us either as their universal healthcare is truly the best in the world; not unexpected though as they have really high taxes.
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Re: Is the NHS the envy of the world???Absolutely not. It needs reforming.(Original post by SHUTUPMAN)
Despite some shortcomings, is the NHS the envy of the world?? -
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Re: Is the NHS the envy of the world???'What you've read' hmm yes that stuff. Clearly you should be reading something more reliable. Some statistics from the WHO for you, summarised in a google doc. As you can see, the US government actually spends 50% more than the British government, behind only Norway and the pseudo-countries Luxembourg and Monaco.(Original post by AdvanceAndVanquish)
It would be nice if there was a source for such a claim, as it both contradicts what I've read and seems very unlikely.
The reasons for this are discussed at length in the wikipedia article. One key one is the huge inflation the US gets on even basic drugs, simply because an insurance-based system gives no incentive to bring the cost down. Take a step across the border to canada and they can be 5x cheaper, even if they were produced in the US! -
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Re: Is the NHS the envy of the world???It's good to know I'm not the only one to have discovered this evidence! Surely if more Americans knew about this they wouldn't be so against changing their healthcare system?(Original post by nexttime)
'What you've read' hmm yes that stuff. Clearly you should be reading something more reliable. Some statistics from the WHO for you, summarised in a google doc. As you can see, the US government actually spends 50% more than the British government, behind only Norway and the pseudo-countries Luxembourg and Monaco.
The reasons for this are discussed at length in the wikipedia article. One key one is the huge inflation the US gets on even basic drugs, simply because an insurance-based system gives no incentive to bring the cost down. Take a step across the border to canada and they can be 5x cheaper, even if they were produced in the US!Last edited by Emaemmaemily; 01-08-2012 at 09:33. -
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Re: Is the NHS the envy of the world???Free at the point of service? Really?(Original post by Observatory)
Every developed country except the US has universal healthcare. The levels of delusion in this thread are worrying. -
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Re: Is the NHS the envy of the world???Why is that an important distinction - or why is it even a good thing?(Original post by Kibalchich)
Free at the point of service? Really?
For instance if I have a system where people making over £40k/year buy their own insurance, what's the big advantage of the NHS over that? That it subsidises rich people? That it makes it hard for them hard to buy BUPA?
Reason people like the NHS is that you will get care if you need it. That's true in pretty much every first world country. Even in the US, you will get emergency care if you need it. -
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Re: Is the NHS the envy of the world???Because it makes a mockery of there being universal health care if you can't actually afford it. Yes, there is emergency care, but this is a ridiculous waste of resources if you let things get so bad that it becomes an emergency! If someone notices that they are tired a lot, urinating a lot and thirsty a lot, but they can't afford to go to their GP, what do you think may happen? They get admitted as an emergency way down the line in a diabetic coma and have to have their feet amputated. Genius idea.(Original post by Observatory)
Why is that an important distinction - or why is it even a good thing?
For instance if I have a system where people making over £40k/year buy their own insurance, what's the big advantage of the NHS over that? That it subsidises rich people? That it makes it hard for them hard to buy BUPA?
Reason people like the NHS is that you will get care if you need it. That's true in pretty much every first world country. Even in the US, you will get emergency care if you need it. -
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Re: Is the NHS the envy of the world???The US does not have UHC and I didn't say it did.(Original post by Kibalchich)
Because it makes a mockery of there being universal health care if you can't actually afford it. Yes, there is emergency care, but this is a ridiculous waste of resources if you let things get so bad that it becomes an emergency! If someone notices that they are tired a lot, urinating a lot and thirsty a lot, but they can't afford to go to their GP, what do you think may happen? They get admitted as an emergency way down the line in a diabetic coma and have to have their feet amputated. Genius idea. -
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Re: Is the NHS the envy of the world???Who mentioned the US, except you?(Original post by Observatory)
The US does not have UHC and I didn't say it did. -
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Re: Is the NHS the envy of the world???I doubt it. More likely the opposite - they'd start removing the funding of emergency healthcare, or try to privatise the safety testing of drugs or something crazy like that.(Original post by Emaemmaemily)
It's good to know I'm not the only one to have discovered this evidence! Surely if more Americans knew about this they wouldn't be so against changing their healthcare system? -
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Re: Is the NHS the envy of the world???I was born with a congenital defect that went unnoticed/ignored by NHS doctors and nurses despite my parents insisting something was wrong when I was a baby. When I was a few months old they took me on holiday abroad, and within one day of me being dropped off at a daycare centre one of the workers (who wasn't even a healthcare professional) had pointed my condition out and I was operated on pretty much immediately.
If it hadn't been for this intervention I would have grown up to become mentally handicapped. I'm not saying the NHS is faulty and unreliable, since I was most likely an anomaly and slipped the radar. But it stopped me from growing up and looking at the system through rose-tinted spectacles like a lot of people seem to do.
I think the NHS is a wonderful system. It is of course what you would call "world class" but I can guarantee you it is not the "best in the world". A quick look at France would make this pretty apparent (take it from somebody who spent part of their childhood there and coincidentally stayed in hospitals there)
(Also, yes everyone is entitled to free of charge healthcare under the NHS, but it is NOT a charity. It is funded primarily by your taxes. That being said I much prefer the way our system is financed compared to that of, say, the United States)
