[internetguru]

If you want to reform people firstly you need to make a distinction between repeat offenders and single offense in the moment individuals. The second group do not need reform however mixing them with hardened criminals will turn them into the first type. We need to split our country's prisons up so repeat offenders are not in the same prisons as single offenders.

Another fundamental problem is that people who have committed crimes end up with criminal records which prevent them getting decent jobs. Would you want to live life as a poor person without any hopes and dreams? If you have seen Hunger Games you will know that giving people just a little hope keeps them in line. Take that hope away and they become criminals. We need to make prisons institutions of learning, take away their gym equipment and give them textbooks. Allow them to take GCSEs and then A-levels and get educated. Then allow them to learn a trade, teach them how they can set up their own business these are all things that can be done to reform prisoners.

Lastly we have to recognise that some prisoners cannot be reformed. People that have life imprisonments who have committed murder will never be getting out a reformed citizen. The moment they are found guilty they realise that they are going to be behind bars for a significant portion of their life so why bother to reform because when they get out their life has already finished.

[MacDaddi]

(Original post by internetguru)
If you want to reform people firstly you need to make a distinction between repeat offenders and single offense in the moment individuals. The second group do not need reform however mixing them with hardened criminals will turn them into the first type. We need to split our country's prisons up so repeat offenders are not in the same prisons as single offenders.

Another fundamental problem is that people who have committed crimes end up with criminal records which prevent them getting decent jobs. Would you want to live life as a poor person without any hopes and dreams? If you have seen Hunger Games you will know that giving people just a little hope keeps them in line. Take that hope away and they become criminals. We need to make prisons institutions of learning, take away their gym equipment and give them textbooks. Allow them to take GCSEs and then A-levels and get educated. Then allow them to learn a trade, teach them how they can set up their own business these are all things that can be done to reform prisoners.

Lastly we have to recognise that some prisoners cannot be reformed. People that have life imprisonments who have committed murder will never be getting out a reformed citizen. The moment they are found guilty they realise that they are going to be behind bars for a significant portion of their life so why bother to reform because when they get out their life has already finished.

And it was all going so well. Until the last paragraph I agreed with most of what you were saying. Everybody should be given a chance to change whether murderer or fraudster

[internetguru]

(Original post by MacDaddi)
And it was all going so well. Until the last paragraph I agreed with most of what you were saying. Everybody should be given a chance to change whether murderer or fraudster

Due to the long sentences it becomes pretty difficult though. Say you are 21 years old then go to prison for 20 years what can you do from there at 41 years old without any experience?

[MacDaddi]

(Original post by internetguru)
Due to the long sentences it becomes pretty difficult though. Say you are 21 years old then go to prison for 20 years what can you do from there at 41 years old without any experience?

Yeah but if they have been given training they can go into the world and pay taxes rather than costing money sitting around doing nothing

[internetguru]

(Original post by MacDaddi)
Yeah but if they have been given training they can go into the world and pay taxes rather than costing money sitting around doing nothing

I'm just trying to think like someone who has been given a life sentence. If I were put in jail for 20 years I wouldn't see the point in reforming just to please the state that put me away for 20 years. I would want to punish this state by causing as much chaos as possible as I have missed most of my life. I'm all for trying new things we don't have anything to lose so I suppose I would support attempting to reform them despite my predictions of it failing miserably on such prisoners.

[MacDaddi]

(Original post by internetguru)
I'm just trying to think like someone who has been given a life sentence. If I were put in jail for 20 years I wouldn't see the point in reforming just to please the state that put me away for 20 years. I would want to punish this state by causing as much chaos as possible as I have missed most of my life. I'm all for trying new things we don't have anything to lose so I suppose I would support attempting to reform them despite my predictions of it failing miserably on such prisoners.

But that's just you

[internetguru]

(Original post by MacDaddi)
But that's just you

I suppose we could speak to prisoners themselves if we had a model prison on TSR.

[Mechie]

Has the idea from this been taken from my justice bill much?

[MacDaddi]

(Original post by davidmarsh01)
Has the idea from this been taken from my justice bill much?

Haha no! I've been away the past week and only saw it then!

[jesusandtequila]

Committee's should always be an odd number, and 3 is too big.

[MacDaddi]

Well we have something to go off in the form of toronto's bill, si would you be interested in this?

[toronto353]

(Original post by jesusandtequila)
Committee's should always be an odd number, and 3 is too big.

Hmm I feel that you're hinting at something, but it's not clear.

[jesusandtequila]

(Original post by MacDaddi)
Well we have something to go off in the form of toronto's bill, si would you be interested in this?

I'd be interested in prison reform at some point, but I've never seen anything good on the topic in my many years here. If I'm going to write something (and I might do) then I'll do it in our sub-forum, not on some committee and not with any time pressure.

[MacDaddi]

(Original post by jesusandtequila)
I'd be interested in prison reform at some point, but I've never seen anything good on the topic in my many years here. If I'm going to write something (and I might do) then I'll do it in our sub-forum, not on some committee and not with any time pressure.

Is there time pressure?

[jesusandtequila]

(Original post by MacDaddi)
Is there time pressure?

There is if there's a committee with deadlines and such.

[Mechie]

I agree with J&T - I've written my justice bill, and if I write something about prisons I'll do it in my own sub-forum when I want.

[MacDaddi]

To anybody concerned, I have a bill about half done, should be up by Wednesday, maybe Tuesday if you're lucky

[Mechie]

(Original post by MacDaddi)
To anybody concerned, I have a bill about half done, should be up by Wednesday, maybe Tuesday if you're lucky

Could you please send me a copy of it? I think I somewhat deserve it seeing as I had a bill out about this when you put this up

[MacDaddi]

Stepped on my laptop so it wont be out until the end of the week

[thunder_chunky]

(Original post by tehFrance)
Send the prisoners to work camps or make them serve in the military until their sentence is up. Quite an easy reform I'd say

Making them join the millitary en masse is questionable. Granted there have been some cases where people have been told to either join the millitary or go to Prison. Andy McNab was given that option because he was a bit of a scrote as a youngster. He decided to join the army and the rest, as they say, is history.
I'm not sure how often that happens but it if happens occasionally then fine but I'm not sure it's something that should happen widely.