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We need capital punishment back.

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    (Original post by The Marshall)
    Aggressiveness, aggressiveness, and yet aggressiveness. More than that, I would call this bullying.

    Let me give you an example of a nation- India.

    Corrupt Police force- bribed by the Ministers and Government,

    Nasty Prisons- seriously? Yes.

    Hell, no one wants to go into an Indian prison. I'll tell you this. You ever go in there? No, I don't think so.
    I don't want to go to any prison, so explain that please.

    lol

    You have no evidence and just keep trotting out anecdotes without support, so you don't have a leg to stand on. Give up and stop embarassing yourself. Everyone can see what you are doing and sticking your fingers in your ears and going NANANANANANANANANANANANANANNANAN ANAN doesn't make it any less so.

    EVERYONE CAN SEE YOU HAVE NOTHING and your attempt to suggest the poster is aggresive or bullying for picking the faults in your (non existent) reasoning is hilarious and makes me thing you might acutally be unwell or something. Seriously, are you ok?
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    (Original post by Mister Dead)
    I don't want to go to any prison, so explain that please.

    lol

    You have no evidence and just keep trotting out anecdotes without support, so you don't have a leg to stand on. Give up and stop embarassing yourself. Everyone can see what you are doing and sticking your fingers in your ears and going NANANANANANANANANANANANANANNANAN ANAN doesn't make it any less so.

    EVERYONE CAN SEE YOU HAVE NOTHING and your attempt to suggest the poster is aggresive or bullying for picking the faults in your (non existent) reasoning is hilarious and makes me thing you might acutally be unwell or something. Seriously, are you ok?
    So far, you've been dancing in front of me.
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    (Original post by The Marshall)
    So far, you've been dancing in front of me.
    Is this what you have reduced yourself to



    (Original post by NYU2012)
    (1) Do you not understand how research and hypothesis testing work?

    Hypothesis: Death penalty acts as a deterrent
    Research shows: This hypothesis is false. The death penalty does no such thing.

    (2) How can you conclude that? [edit: low crime rate in Bagdad is result of death pen and again implied re. conditions in India prisons] Can you cite any studies? Have you studied crime, political or the judiciary in Iraq? Do you have data do support this claim? I doubt it.

    (3) If your claim were true, if would reflected on the research conducted by the APA. As has been indicated to you, harsher punishments, e.g. The death penalty, do not deter criminal activity
    Why don't you stand your ground. NYU2012 is asking you to provide evidence that what you claim is true. You have skirted around this.
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    (Original post by The Marshall)
    So far, you've been dancing in front of me.
    You're convincing no one, the other posters here are very measured and methodical in their arguments. What stats are you prepared to bring to the table here?

    If you are for the death penalty then you should also feel happy to carry out the sentence yourself.
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    (Original post by Mister Dead)
    Why don't you stand your ground. NYU2012 is asking you to provide evidence that what you claim is true. You have skirted around this.
    It might be rude to point out, but this Marshall character is a cohort of ChristianLady. I'm not out to start a witch-hunt, but there is an alarmingly similarity in their approach to debate.
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    (Original post by Carter78)
    It might be rude to point out, but this Marshall character is a cohort of ChristianLady. I'm not out to start a witch-hunt, but there is an alarmingly similarity in their approach to debate.
    I don't know why I even bothered getting involved

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    I need to ask myself some serious questions about that. Time for a nice cup of tea and a sit down.
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    (Original post by Carter78)
    It might be rude to point out, but this Marshall character is a cohort of ChristianLady. I'm not out to start a witch-hunt, but there is an alarmingly similarity in their approach to debate.
    Look at it this way. I only asked a question, then however the guy started talking rubbish. You are being downright rude and aggressive. Have I insulted you or something? No. That does not require you both to be so demanding and being insulting. Why am I wasting my time with you people? Haha. You people need to get a life. You may say what you want, but she is was totally undefended over there. I had to step in.
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    (Original post by The Marshall)
    Look at it this way. I only asked a question, then however the guy started talking rubbish. You are being downright rude and aggressive. Have I insulted you or something? No. That does not require you both to be so demanding and being insulting. Why am I wasting my time with you people? Haha. You people need to get a life. You may say what you want, but she is was totally undefended over there. I had to step in.
    Nothing that he wrote was rude or aggressive to you, but you clearly interpreted it as being such.
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    Classic flounce
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    (Original post by The Marshall)
    Aggressiveness, aggressiveness, and yet aggressiveness. More than that, I would call this bullying.
    I would call it having to explain simple psychological and sociological data to someone who thinks they know everything without ever having studied the subject, yet goes around insisting that they do.

    (Original post by The Marshall)
    Let me give you an example of a nation- India.

    Corrupt Police force- bribed by the Ministers and Government,

    Nasty Prisons- seriously? Yes.

    Hell, no one wants to go into an Indian prison. I'll tell you this. You ever go in there? No, I don't think so.
    (1) There's so much more to the sociology of crime than you seem to understand. The sources and causes of crime, as well as how best to prevent crime, is infinitely more complex than you're giving credit for.

    (2) You've just gone from saying "the death penalty deters crime" to "harsh punishment, not necessarily the death penalty, deters crime."

    Please decide which position you're actually trying to defend.

    Either way, as the data shows, contrary to your merely speculation which is not supported by any data which you have provided, neither of these things prevent crime or act as deters in any significant way.

    In fact, as I stated earlier, APA data even shows that the death penalty increases murder rates because after the State executes someone, we can observe a spike in murder rates for a short period of time thereafter.

    Please, go actually research this subject; or maybe possibly even study it.
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    (Original post by The Marshall)
    Look at it this way. I only asked a question, then however the guy started talking rubbish. You are being downright rude and aggressive. Have I insulted you or something? No. That does not require you both to be so demanding and being insulting. Why am I wasting my time with you people? Haha. You people need to get a life. You may say what you want, but she is was totally undefended over there. I had to step in.
    Settle down dear. Stop babbling and have a cup of tea.
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    (Original post by Carter78)
    Settle down dear. Stop babbling and have a cup of tea.
    Settle down? Oh right, hear your crap, and then settle down? Why I certainly will not. Aggressiveness and then bullying is the subject of this topic now.
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    I would call it having to explain simple psychological and sociological data to someone who thinks they know everything without ever having studied the subject, yet goes around insisting that they do.



    (1) There's so much more to the sociology of crime than you seem to understand. The sources and causes of crime, as well as how best to prevent crime, is infinitely more complex than you're giving credit for.

    (2) You've just gone from saying "the death penalty deters crime" to "harsh punishment, not necessarily the death penalty, deters crime."

    Please decide which position you're actually trying to defend.

    Either way, as the data shows, contrary to your merely speculation which is not supported by any data which you have provided, neither of these things prevent crime or act as deters in any significant way.

    In fact, as I stated earlier, APA data even shows that the death penalty increases murder rates because after the State executes someone, we can observe a spike in murder rates for a short period of time thereafter.

    Please, go actually research this subject; or maybe possibly even study it.
    I would call it having to explain simple psychological and sociological data to someone who thinks they know everything without ever having studied the subject, yet goes around insisting that they do.


    I asked you a simple question. And it seems however you are quite incapable, quite incapable of answering a simple question. What you and others are doing is group bullying. Because British people love to bully, I don't think I need to research anything.

    (2) You've just gone from saying "the death penalty deters crime" to "harsh punishment, not necessarily the death penalty, deters crime."

    Please decide which position you're actually trying to defend.

    Please, create nesscary lies in order to dispell. I never said that harsh punishment deters crime. I strongly support that Capital Punishment should be bought in, and every criminal that commits a crime, even a petty one will be hanged. The US Marshalls of their time had no problem in that in the old wild west.

    Either way, as the data shows, contrary to your merely speculation which is not supported by any data which you have provided, neither of these things prevent crime or act as deters in any significant way.

    I don't know what the hell you're talking about here.


    In fact, as I stated earlier, APA data even shows that the death penalty increases murder rates because after the State executes someone, we can observe a spike in murder rates for a short period of time thereafter.

    Hum...hello? You mentioned it right here now, you didn't mention it before, did you?
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    Before reading this I would have said yes to the death penalty to anyone who has murdered or raped another person..

    Now I am thinking maybe the death penalty should apply to those who have committed several acts of murder or terrorism

    People saying 30 years is a long time for a person to be in jail, I think you're forgetting that most of them will be let out 10-15 years with good behaviour..

    http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven...urder-of-john- grainger

    The two in this case got 30 and 32 years.. If they behave in prison that sentence will be over in half of their time... Is this fair? For such a brutal attack?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beverley_Allitt

    This woman can apply for parole in 2022, this is 31 years she would have served in prison after taking away the lives of 4 young children attempting to kill others and committing gbh on others.. Is this fair? After the amount of lives this woman has ruined, not just the children she did all this to but to their families too.
    'Following the second time that she stopped breathing, she was transferred to another hospital but, by this time, had suffered permanent brain damage, partial paralysis and partial blindness due to oxygen deprivation.' this is what one of the children suffered she was 2 months old...
    Surely people like this SHOULD get the death penalty OR at least get an ACTUAL LIFE SENTENCE
    the amount of years she took away from all these children, the lives she ruined, when she got her sentence life shouldn't have been 40 years but less if she behaves, it should be LIFE, she should die in prison. By the age of 54 this woman could be out in our streets leading her life... How is this fair?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Erskine
    By 2028 we can expect this man back out on our streets..
    He raped and strangled between 7 and 11 elderly people, how would you feel if one of these people were your grandparents
    But in 16 years time it is possible that he could be released.. A few years ago his convictions were even dropped from murder to manslaughter, how on god's earth are all these murders manslaughter, please someone explain, so this man didn't mean to kill all these people? He just broke into their homes, raped them put his knee on their chest, his hand over their mouth and his other hand round their neck because he slipped? And I guess he just fell in this position and stayed there for a few minutes until they could no longer breath? YES THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED!!

    These are some of many cases where all the convicted serial killers could be out in our streets in the next 20 years, by then they may be 50 odd or older in some cases, but I know for sure I wouldn't trust them and let them into my house..

    Our country is too soft on criminals.. Harsher punishments for them is what we need.. Why the hell do they need a gym and a tv in prison? They should be getting punished not having fun!! What do this country think prison is? A bloody holiday.. No wonder why people are coming out and committing crimes again, usually ones that are worse than the one they went in for, I would for a good meal 3 times a day, work, a tv, a gym and god knows what else..

    Maybe not the death penalty for everyone but for people like Beverley Allitt, if my child died in the hands of her, I would quite gladly want to watch her life being taken away too..





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    (Original post by MelissaBabe)
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    They are not released early on good behaviour alone, it is also decided on if they have been reformed. If they have truely been reformed then I don't see a problem with them getting out within 15 years as they have served their time and will no longer be a threat to society
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    (Original post by dj1015)

    These people are sick individuals. If an animal is sick and we cant afford the vet bills, its get put down. Time to apply the same logic to these terrible people.
    Poor logic:

    a) If an animal is sick it is put down not because we cannot afford the bills, but because the animal is in pain and to try and operate would only make things worse. These criminals may very well be cruel but they are not physically sick.

    b) Since when have humans applied similar 'logic' (I use that term very loosely) to other humans? I don't know about you but I haven't eaten a man-steak recently, event though I ate some lovely pork last night. What I am saying is that we treat animals differently to how we treat humans. In this scenario it is important that we do so because we don't apply a code of laws to the rest of the animal kingdom (I don't see any foxes in prison for theft).

    Your argument is flawed, as is your logic. Some rethinking required.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    I was against it until very recently for many of the same reasons most people oppose it. But it is time for a serious rethink in the UK. The justice system as well all know is soft on crime, and 30 years for murder is not enough.

    These people are sick individuals. If an animal is sick and we cant afford the vet bills, its get put down. Time to apply the same logic to these terrible people.

    http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven...-john-grainger

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...g-student.html

    I am not in favour of it because I think it will deter people from committing terrible crimes, because it wont. I am not in favour of it because it I believe in the eye for and eye theory. I am looking at this from the economics of the situation.

    If capital punishment can be brought back. It could be introduced in a manner that is quick, and cost efficient to the British tax payer. No need for mutlipul costly appeals as one is enough, and only a short stay on death row. Thus saving money on the cost of a whole life sentence. Humane methods could also be used such as Nitrogen asphyxiation.
    At first it seems that your proposal would save money. But then considering the appeals process which is laborious, costly and painful slow, and the cost that would be spent on whatever means and facilities of how they would be put to death, and all the extra arse-covering legislature that would no doubt have to be created, I wonder if it would save that much money.

    Also I do not think it is right to take another's life for crime. As public tax cutting is your goal, I would much prefer saving it by scrapping most benefits because at present most tax payers are shelling out for dossers, blaggers and greedy pisstakers.
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    The victims families go to the sentencing and find it a relief that the person that took their son/daughter etc. life away is getting life imprisonment with a MINIMUM of 30 or so years but then finding out later that soon they could be out on the streets again living their life serving only half and sometimes less of the sentence they saw them receive, now I don't know about everyone else but that would p*** me off


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    (Original post by MelissaBabe)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Erskine
    By 2028 we can expect this man back out on our streets..
    He raped and strangled between 7 and 11 elderly people, how would you feel if one of these people were your grandparents
    But in 16 years time it is possible that he could be released.. A few years ago his convictions were even dropped from murder to manslaughter, how on god's earth are all these murders manslaughter, please someone explain, so this man didn't mean to kill all these people?
    Put the pieces of the jigsaw together... start with 'Broadmoor high security psychiatric hospital' and end with 'diminished capacity' The guy is clearly very mentally ill. I don't know a lot about law, but I know that means they have argued that he did not have the mental capacity to be 'criminally liable' for murder.

    I worked in psychiatric hospitals for many years, and whilst you will sometimes meet people that you find to be 'evil', just as you do in the community, we do have a responsibility where appropriate to try to heal or rehabilitate people that have been very sick.

    These kind of events are just a tragedy for so many people, and sometimes that includes the perpetrator. As an aside, it would seem very unlikely that this man will ever be released from hospital. I suspect he will be dead before anyway. It's also worth noting that the Beverly woman that you mentioned is also in one of the big four (Rampton - also known as 'The Big House'). It would seem very, very, very unlikely that she would every be released from hospital.
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    (Original post by MelissaBabe)
    The victims families go to the sentencing and find it a relief that the person that took their son/daughter etc. life away is getting life imprisonment with a MINIMUM of 30 or so years but then finding out later that soon they could be out on the streets again living their life serving only half and sometimes less of the sentence they saw them receive, now I don't know about everyone else but that would p*** me off


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
    Wouldn't p*** me off because if they were let out early I know they must have been rehabilitated and are as much threat to the public as every other person is.
Updated: September 16, 2012
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