[Xotol]

(Original post by Cephalus)
I honestly link decline in morals to decline in religion

Decline in morals? Are you sure you can justify that statement? Sure, there might be a lack of morals, but if we compare the society today to hundreds or thousands of years back, isn't there an improvement? There technically should be as some of the things society deems immoral today would have been moral a couple of thousands years back (e.g. marrying children).

(Original post by Cephalus)
Obviously I don't support these particular things

That's not the point. People may support 'immoral' actions or beliefs because they believe their religion espouses the same (i.e. homophobia, sexism etc). While some people may perhaps be more moral because of religion (e.g. giving charity), it can go both ways. No one is specifically aiming this towards you and the point doesn't have to be towards you to be valid.

[Cephalus]

(Original post by Xotol)
Decline in morals? Are you sure you can justify that statement? Sure, there might be a lack of morals, but if we compare the society today to hundreds or thousands of years back, isn't there an improvement? There technically should be as some of the things society deems immoral today would have been moral a couple of thousands years back (e.g. marrying children).



That's not the point. People may support 'immoral' actions or beliefs because they believe their religion espouses the same (i.e. homophobia, sexism etc). While some people may perhaps be more moral because of religion (e.g. giving charity), it can go both ways. No one is specifically aiming this towards you and the point doesn't have to be towards you to be valid.

I disagree. You can't say that there has been an improvement in morals by retrospectively applying the morals of today to the past.

Though I concede that religion can go both ways. You do get alot of hate filled people who are religious.

[Xotol]

(Original post by Cephalus)
I disagree. You can't say that there has been an improvement in morals by retrospectively applying the morals of today to the past.

Though I concede that religion can go both ways. You do get alot of hate filled people who are religious.

I am saying by comparison to today's standard. Some actions carried out hundreds or thousands of years ago would be deemed completely abhorrent today, which is generally why morality tends to change from culture to culture as time progresses. If you are in disagreement about applying the morals of today to the past, I don't see how you can say 'morals have declined' either.

[Scumbaggio]

(Original post by Dmon1Unlimited)
While with me, my morals are obtained straight from life lessons and growing up rather than religion...

If I were asked the same thing I'd say " I can appreciate life without thinking about god. A person can still have emotions without believing in god. A person can still have compassion without god and a lot of morality comes from compassion. To put yourself in other peoples shoes... I don't need a god to tell me bad things happen when doing bad stuff."

While it can potentially help, it's merely a weak justification... You get praised from god and get sent to heaven for doing good things and get sent to hell for bad things... This isn't much different to being sent to prison for bad things. Only difference being one is more exaggerated than another... Religion is merely a reason, giving a genocidal atheist maniac a bible won't make him moral unless he's looking for something to help shape his life...

It's like karma... Religion has influence but so does anything that tells you that good deeds=good and bad deeds=bad...

So no I disagree that a decline in religion = decline in morals... Given the right incentive, there would be no decline


As above

I was basically trying to point out that while for you and me religion probably has not been the force stopping us from going out raping/murdering, for some it might be.

[Dmon1Unlimited]

(Original post by Scumbaggio)
I was basically trying to point out that while for you and me religion probably has not been the force stopping us from going out raping/murdering, for some it might be.

I know... Like i said, as will any other incentive... Hardly a significant pro regarding pros and cons of religion

[tj hughes]

you do realise that morals are just personal beliefs that change over time?

150 years ago, members of the public would have had moral justifications for the slave trade, and in 150 years people will look back and think our morals are outdated. Morals should have no specific gravitas or weighting, they're just personal values that people live by. Politicians are too quick to label something as morally wrong - all it means is that THEY PERSONALLY feel it is wrong.

In many cases, the act that it is labelled as morally wrong is indeed ethically wrong, but these are very different meanings.

Hence, I myself don't really regard morals as important whatsoever. Am I a threat to society? Not at all, I respect others, society and the world a lot, and as it goes, a lot more than people who are so determined on promoting their own personal views (morals) and agendas.

[WhatsHisFace]

(Original post by Scumbaggio)
I'm undecided about this, people have to get their morals from somewhere. I'd like to think that my values come exclusively from my parents and my peers, but in reality I'm sure some of them are from the bible or from the religious themed assemblies at school.

I once had a discussion with a Nigerian Christian where he asked how I knew not to get up in the morning and go on a murderous rampage if I didn't believe in god. You don't need to be religious in any way to realise that murder is immoral and I'm sure most people would agree.

I don't think you should dismiss religion's influence on morals completely, maybe there are certain sections of society that do need religion as a moral compass?

TV and the media have as much, if not more impact on our morals.

But what is so hard to understand about morals? Most of them revolve around the golden rule- To do to others as you would have done to yourself. Which is basic empathy skills, our brains are literally wired so that we feel this emotion. Any pieces of information that we need to contextualize whatever empathetic emotion we have is made using rationality.

[Brevillemonkey]

(Original post by WhatsHisFace)
Religion never created morals, I don't see why it would effect them.


I think the issue is less so that society lacks morals, it's that we can't agree on them. The more time that is needed to debate what is or isn't ethical the less time we spend correctly enforcing, informing, and promoting our morals. Not to mention that since there is moral insecurity, that leaves grey areas in law that immoral people love to abuse. Yes, morals were more concrete when there was more religious people, but then again, civilization has only seen so many years where religion has been removed from government (some nations still haven't). And it's pretty obvious that most if not every religion has some form of incorrect moral(s).

So to tie everything back to the person who I quoted, it isn't lack of religion that is causing us to lose morals, it is religious freedom.

You're right that religion didn't create morality, but you'd be an idiot to say religion has no effect on people's morality. Fear of divine retribution and punishment is a powerful motivator, and while it may not be 'true' morality, it still pretty much looks the same in most cases.

[WhatsHisFace]

(Original post by Brevillemonkey)
You're right that religion didn't create morality, but you'd be an idiot to say religion has no effect on people's morality. Fear of divine retribution and punishment is a powerful motivator, and while it may not be 'true' morality, it still pretty much looks the same in most cases.

I know you didn't read my above post when you typed that, but I believe it does a good job of explaining it. Neurobiology explains morals just as well as religious reasoning.

[Occams Chainsaw]

(Original post by WhatsHisFace)
Religion never created morals, I don't see why it would effect them.

Religion enforced morals through fear of being judged by the man in the clouds... so it doesn't matter who created them, they still had the effect and now religion is diminishing there is no reason to fear our selfish actions/morals! I think that this is why societies manipulated stories in the first place - to scare people into following a moral code of conduct - it worked for thousands of years (for the most part)!

[WhatsHisFace]

(Original post by Occams Chainsaw)
Religion enforced morals through fear of being judged by the man in the clouds... so it doesn't matter who created them, they still had the effect and now religion is diminishing there is no reason to fear our selfish actions/morals! I think that this is why societies manipulated stories in the first place - to scare people into following a moral code of conduct - it worked for thousands of years (for the most part)!

Was it? Or was "This man murdered this other man, so the king hung him" morals enough?

[Spaz Man]

Of course it is. The current banking system is a great example.

[calikesindobabes]

what defines "moral"?

[justanotherposter]

If it takes religion to make someone 'moral' then I'd argue that person isn't moral at all, immoral people will take moral actions when it benefits them, so if an immoral person decides doing some moral actions will let him avoid hell, is he truly moral? Or is he just acting moral to benefit himself, in which case he isn't moral.

[Hobo389]

I'm not so sure that it's individualism that creates a lack of morals. If we were a strongly collectivist or such-like society then there would still be those who would take to advantage themselves over others. It's mentality over situation. As another poster mentioned in the decline of religion.

This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T

[pshewitt1]

(Original post by WhatsHisFace)
Mmmm...I can think of plenty of evil people who identify and practice being a Christian. Pat Robertson is a shining example.


Also, I'm an athiest, and obviously have morals. The only people that I've heard of that put forth the idea that since non- believers don't believe in God that they don't have a moral compass are religious people. Maybe if the non- religious admitted to commiting immoral acts because of their non-belief it would be a good argument, but that just doesn't happen.

I thought that said Robert Patti son and laughed at the statement shining example...please change it for lolz?

[WhatsHisFace]

(Original post by pshewitt1)
I thought that said Robert Patti son and laughed at the statement shining example...please change it for lolz?

If I didn't google his name it wouldn't been that lol.

[Occams Chainsaw]

(Original post by WhatsHisFace)
Was it? Or was "This man murdered this other man, so the king hung him" morals enough?

I didn't say the bible, I said religion. religions preach good morals inc. charity, loving your neighbor as yourself. The bible was not a part of my argument.

[Brevillemonkey]

(Original post by WhatsHisFace)
I know you didn't read my above post when you typed that, but I believe it does a good job of explaining it. Neurobiology explains morals just as well as religious reasoning.

I don't think religion explains morality at all, I think peoples religion has an effect on their morality. Those are two different things.

[dgeorge]

(Original post by MTR_10)
It's clear that we have people in society who lack morals. For example, people who abuse the welfare system to maximise their own individual gain and financial executives who fix rates and systems in order to serve their own interests. Not to mention others, who see nothing wrong with bullying, lying and cheating on a daily basis, and refuse to take responsibility for their own behaviour.

Do you believe in individualism and a sociopathic 'every man for himself' society which emphasises individual rights without moral responsibilities? Or do you think individual responsiblity is as important as rights (freedom) and that we have a duty to behave with morals in order to keep society fair, harmonious and functional?

So what do you think? Is the current level of morality having a negative impact on the UK?

By definition, all rights ALREADY have responsibilities attached. By ignoring these responsibilities you are abusing your freedoms