[Rhadamanthus]

(Original post by FDR)
There are numerous examples of settlements being built, illegally, in palestinian land. The borders may not have changed, however Israel has simply shoved settlements in palestine. The case of Hebron is still illegal even if it is in Area C, because the Oslo accords state that in these areas, Israel has full civil and security control, <b>except over palestinian civilians</b> - what it is doing is illegal as it is evicting these palestinians from their land.

The settlements are being expanded within the Area C land under Israeli control. The Israeli military is in Hebron to protect the Israeli settlers there, not to exercise authority over the Palestinians who are under PA control.

[sugar-n-spice]

Palestinians are poor because of poor institutions, if they were improved they would become more prosperous. He correctly identified a problem, the cause and an obvious solution. Well done Romney I say, maybe he's planning on donating some money to build a school or something.

It's like "Obamacare", Obama does care, very nice of GOP to say so.

[internetguru]

As much as I want to criticize Romney for his comments I know Obama stands for mostly the same thing. Vote for Obama anyway though that Romney is a tax avoider. All he really wants to do is repeal Obamacare aka Romneycare and lower taxes on the rich. Yes Obama isn't great either I would prefer Ron Paul but he is still better than Romney.

[Rationalist1]

From the looks of things, the chances of Mitt Romney being elected President of the USA are looking SLIM! Not going to lie, Mitt Romney had strong support in the beginning of the year when he pointed out various flaws in Obama's premiership. But we can clearly see his momentum has run its course. Due to his personality matching that of a 'dick'

[Rationalist1]

(Original post by Muscovite)
Premiership means prime minister's term - you mean presidency
haha he is just a bit of a tool to be honest I agree

Yeah I meant presidency lol, it don't matter really as in the 21st Century the term Prime Minister and President can't be distinguished that easily anymore. Prime examples where the Prime Minister or the equivalent holds as much power as a president includes Britain and the Federal Republic of Germany

But yeah he is a big tool! He is just a typical Republican candidate all arrogance and showmanship.

[Rainingshame]

(Original post by SpiggyTopes)
Why does being rich make him a bad a bad presidential candidate? I know he is a bad presidential candidate, but why does his wealth matter?

In Romney's case the main issue is how he got his wealth rather than his wealth itself. Or at least it should be.

[Germany]

Mitt Romney is a very intelligent and highly educated man who knows Europe well and is playing with media reactions.

He is not totally wrong, though kind of over-American for European taste. This is exactly is his branding.

[thisisnew]

Believe it or not, Israel actually does a lot to help the Palestinian economy. It's just a shame that Hamas runs Gaza, the PA is riddled with corruption, Palestinians are over reliant on international aid and so on. It's a shame because there's a lot of potential in places such as Gaza.

[Germany]

(Original post by thisisnew)
Believe it or not, Israel actually does a lot to help the Palestinian economy. It's just a shame that Hamas runs Gaza, the PA is riddled with corruption, Palestinians are over reliant on international aid and so on. It's a shame because there's a lot of potential in places such as Gaza.

Everybody who was in Palestina can confirm that. The aid-industry is very over-HUGE, so huge that they might "unlearn" how to help themselves. This is what happens often, not blaming anybody, just saying about the economic ecosystem.

[cl_steele]

(Original post by Cephalus)
No, he's just saying what he thinks. Why is everybody so keen to pick on Romney?

Because he's a brain dead monkey.

[Freedom Writer]

Believe it or not, Israel actually does a lot to help the Palestinian economy.

I'm sorry, continued armed conflicts such as the Israeli attack on Gaza in 2008, and the many air strikes since, do not constitute 'help'. "… So I’ve made clear from day one that I’m prepared to meet President Abbas any place, any time to negotiate peace. And I make that clear again today." This is hypocritical, Abbas went to the UN, and rather than seeing future potential, Netanyahu and Israel opposed him.

It's just a shame that Hamas runs Gaza, the PA is riddled with corruption,

What’s wrong with Hamas? They resist oppression, what would you do in a similar situation knowing that your home was stolen from under your feet, and that the world’s strongest nations work against you?

Palestinians are over reliant on international aid and so on.

A bit Ironic considering that Israel receives billions in aid from the US. Why does one of the richest nations on Earth still need huge amounts of international, and military, aid?

It's a shame because there's a lot of potential in places such as Gaza.

You might be right, but there are too many short term problems to resolve before any future 'potential' can be considered.

[Rhadamanthus]

(Original post by Freedom Writer)
What’s wrong with Hamas? They resist oppression, what would you do in a similar situation knowing that your home was stolen from under your feet, and that the world’s strongest nations work against you?

Oh ha ha. Hamas have done more to oppress the Palestinians than Israel ever have.

[thisisnew]

(Original post by Freedom Writer)
I'm sorry, continued armed conflicts such as the Israeli attack on Gaza in 2008, and the many air strikes since, do not constitute 'help'. "… So I’ve made clear from day one that I’m prepared to meet President Abbas any place, any time to negotiate peace. And I make that clear again today." This is hypocritical, Abbas went to the UN, and rather than seeing future potential, Netanyahu and Israel opposed him.

Yes, Israel launched an operation in Gaza which harmed the Palestinian economy (an operation they were justified in carrying out) although I dare say that the actions of the Palestinians that provoked Cast Lead have had more of a disastrous effect on their economy than anything Israel has and can do, think carefully about that notion. Anyhow, I'm glad we've established this fact, now please explain to the folk reading how this somehow means Israel [aside from said conflict] does not take measures to help the Palestinian economy (as listed in the linked PDF).

That's because the UN statehood bid was nothing more than an idiotic and symbolic gesture with no substance or potential. Peace will be had between the Palestinians and the Israelis - not with Abbas moaning to the UN.

What’s wrong with Hamas? They resist oppression, what would you do in a similar situation knowing that your home was stolen from under your feet, and that the world’s strongest nations work against you?

No comment.

A bit Ironic considering that Israel receives billions in aid from the US. Why does one of the richest nations on Earth still need huge amounts of international, and military, aid?

The 'aid' Israel receives from the US is a case of two nations sharing a 'special' relationship and it's in the US's best geopolitical interests to maintain that relationship and a strong Israeli economy and military achieves exactly that.

This is obviously not the kind of 'humanitarian' aid that the Palestinian territories receive. Now with that clarified, here you go:

[callum9999]

(Original post by Observatory)
Oh come on, he said Palestine was poor because it has terrible institutions. That is true. It's true of the rest of the Arab world, oil money aside.

And yes, if you leave England, you will find there are a lot of places where what you call corruption is part of the culture. It's not necessarily that they're bad people or something - they usually don't even regard it as wrong, and often it actually is the best/only way to operate when faced with a government that is little more than a tyrannical armed mob, like the Palestinian Authority. But it is for sure a cause of failure to develop, because in a corrupt society no one can be sure that an investment they make today will still belong to them this time next year.

The Romney-bashing has become a knee-jerk reaction in the media regardless what the man actually says. The Palestinian Authority calls him a racist? Ok. This is a group of people who intentionally blow up schoolchildren to advance their political goals. What next - Osama Bin Laden as an authoritative source on the success of the Obama presidency?

When have the Palestinian Authority ever blown up schoolchildren??? Though I would suggest that they weren't merely annoyed at what he specifically said on that tiny soundbite, but also because of his unwavering support (whether just or not) of their mortal enemy who seemingly do their best to make their lives difficult!

[Freedom Writer]

(Original post by Rhadamanthus)
Oh ha ha. Hamas have done more to oppress the Palestinians than Israel ever have.

Maybe you’re forgetting that Israel deliberately destroyed hospitals and schools in Gaza, and the Israeli blockade on Gaza is harming children the most. Ironically if the apartheid Israeli state wasn’t created the Palestinians would be a happier people, and Hamas would not exist. Israel is nothing less than an unholy symbol of injustice and oppression.

[callum9999]

(Original post by thisisnew)
That's because the UN statehood bid was nothing more than an idiotic and symbolic gesture with no substance or potential. Peace will be had between the Palestinians and the Israelis - not with Abbas moaning to the UN.

The 'aid' Israel receives from the US is a case of two nations sharing a 'special' relationship and it's in the US's best geopolitical interests to maintain that relationship and a strong Israeli economy and military achieves exactly that.

This is obviously not the kind of 'humanitarian' aid that the Palestinian territories receive. Now with that clarified, here you go:

While it was stupid because we all know Israel doesn't respect the UN anyway (not wanting to get into an argument over whether they should or shouldn't - it's rather obvious that they don't), they have every right to bid for statehood. There is no reason why they shouldn't be a state, and it won't affect any chance of peace - it doesn't really look like either side even wants it particularly badly (again, don't want to start an argument over that as Israel is under no obligation to "be the bigger man" etc. so is doing nothing technically wrong).

I don't think the label put on the aid remotely matters - either way, it is the transfer of goods/money from one country to another.

[tufc]

(Original post by SpiggyTopes)
I'm flabbergasted. This is a man who says....

"I'm not concerned about the very poor."

"I like being able to fire people who provide services to me."

"He [Obama] says we need more firemen, more policemen, more teachers. Did he not get the message of Wisconsin? The American people did. It's time for us to cut back on government and help the American people."

"I believe in an America where millions of Americans believe in an America that's the America millions of Americans believe in. That's the America I love."

How about you provide the full quote for the first quote?
Oh yeah, you're not going to, because you're just another Obama-lover, with a bigoted dislike of Romney.
The full quote is this: "I'm not concerned about the very poor; we have a safety net there - if it needs repair, I'll fix it."

[Rhadamanthus]

(Original post by Freedom Writer)
Maybe you’re forgetting that Israel deliberately destroyed hospitals and schools in Gaza, and the Israeli blockade on Gaza is harming children the most. Ironically if the apartheid Israeli state wasn’t created the Palestinians would be a happier people, and Hamas would not exist. Israel is nothing less than an unholy symbol of injustice and oppression.

They didn't deliberately destroy schools. The instances of schools being attacked resulted form the fact that Hamas used these places and the people within them as shields to hide their weapons and fighters. If Israel didn't exist, who knows, it's hard to say what would happen. But the creation of the Israeli state was one of the morally good acts of the twentieth century and has brought freedom to millions. I'll ignore your demagogic buzzwords.

[SpiggyTopes]

(Original post by tufc)
How about you provide the full quote for the first quote?
Oh yeah, you're not going to, because you're just another Obama-lover, with a bigoted dislike of Romney.
The full quote is this: "I'm not concerned about the very poor; we have a safety net there - if it needs repair, I'll fix it."

He is stupid to say those things because they can be taken out of context easily, like that. That was my point.

By the way, I am no big fan of Obama- don't jump to conclusions! He is just the lesser of two evils.

[Freedom Writer]

Yes, Israel launched an operation in Gaza which harmed the Palestinian economy (an operation they were justified in carrying out)

So how does Israel killing innocent Palestinians help the Palestinian economy exactly? How was Israel justified? Did the Palestinians invade, oppress and annex portions of the Israeli state to an extent that Israelis were forced to be refugees?

although I dare say that the actions of the Palestinians that provoked Cast Lead have had more of a disastrous effect on their economy than anything Israel has and can do, think carefully about that notion.

Israel transforming Gaza into a prison camp is fairly extreme. Maybe Israel’s continued oppression of Palestine provokes the Palestinians to lash out. Moreover, Israel’s continued oppression towards the Palestinian people, and its failure to resolve its conflict with Palestine, will be detrimental to its own economy in the long term.

Anyhow, I'm glad we've established this fact, now please explain to the folk reading how this somehow means Israel [aside from said conflict] does not take measures to help the Palestinian economy (as listed in the linked PDF).

That's because the UN statehood bid was nothing more than an idiotic and symbolic gesture with no substance or potential. Peace will be had between the Palestinians and the Israelis - not with Abbas moaning to the UN.

This is illogical, by not helping to create a Palestinian state Israel is harming the true economic potential of the Palestinian people. Please enlighten me on how peace can be achieved? Israel and Hamas won’t talk, Israel won’t listen to its fellow human beings around the world, and Israel won’t listen to Abbas; how exactly is peace going to be achieved. (I'm no fan of the UN) However, the UN could have acted as a mediator, as mediators are effective in helping to resolve disputes.

No comment.

Please, you must be able to understand why Palestinians are angry after suffering such loss?

The 'aid' Israel receives from the US is a case of two nations sharing a 'special' relationship and it's in the US's best geopolitical interests to maintain that relationship and a strong Israeli economy and military achieves exactly that.

Arguably, the US and Britain share a stronger and more special relationship, but the US doesn't give billions in aid to Britain. It would be the worst geopolitics to support a nation that is not officially recognised by 32 countries. It would make more sense for the US government to spend taxpayers money on its own people because supporting Israel has zero benefit for the US. Also, the US has funded Israel long enough, so why can’t Israel maintain its own economy and military.
http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=22

This is obviously not the kind of 'humanitarian' aid that the Palestinian territories receive. Now with that clarified, here you go:

There's a reason why Palestinians need humanitarian aid. Others will help if Israel will not.


http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/201...aeli-military/