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Original post by quentinhamilton
I think it's more of the attitudes towards education and learning; it is more likely for a privately educated individual to take learning more seriously than one at a comprehensive- for the obvious reasons.

I see you. But in your opinion, do you think it would be easier for somebody who wanted to achieve top grades and had the motivation to do so to attend a private school, or a state-school?
Original post by Asurat
I see you. But in your opinion, do you think it would be easier for somebody who wanted to achieve top grades and had the motivation to do so to attend a private school, or a state-school?

I'd say private. Though I have no experience at a comprehensive, paying school fees itself is a vast motivation; knowing your parents are paying for you to attend school is far more encouraging in my opinion. Besides, influence in school has an effect on your idea of learning-
I've not read all the above points but this is how i see it.
I go to a state comprehensive and have mostly achieved higher than my friends at state grammar and private schools.
The facilities at my secondary school and now sixth form are mostly awful but the effort the teachers put in and the (general) positive attitude towards learning are what make it a good school. So in terms of quality of teaching, it's not so black and white that grammar and private are better than comprehensive (in fact I've heard the teaching at my local grammar is awful.)
One big difference that has come to my attention recently is the 'it's not what you know, it's who you know' aspect of private school. The links students have at those schools and the money to create opportunists and broaden horizons is what can make the biggest difference.
Many of the 'private school dominated' opportunities I have been given so far would not have been possible without scholarship finding and links I built myself. This shows that state and private students can only match up if the state student is willing to go the 'extra mile' and is also lucky enough to be able to close the gap.




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And after reading this first article I can agree completely with the POSSIBLE higher social awareness aspect of attending a state school.
Going to summer school and being the only state comprehensive student I was shocked by the way some students spoke about sectors of society they clearly had never come across properly and the ridiculous questions they had for me about studying and a state school


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Original post by Asurat
Nah I think if you want to achieve top grades it's easier at a private school. Last year when I did GCSEs I had total hell because of reshuffling at my failing school so the courses for several subjects went unfinished, and I was wishing that my dad sent me to board in Africa. As well as my school having to cheat on coursework because of insufficient teaching. Plus the emphasis was on kids who were on the C/D borderline for the league tables and everybody who could achieve a B or above was ignored, as well as booting 20 kids in my year from triple science so that results would look better.

I think it is a case of you get what you pay for, and if you pay for nothing the standards can fall further with less consequences.

But that takes nothing away from people who work hard at private schools as it still takes a lot of drive to achieve well, plus I hardly provided any evidence since it was just anecdotal.


The problem is that there is obviously more money in the private sector and as it is selective the teachers don't have to worry about teaching the stupid kids. So obviously the private sector attracts the "best" teachers - if you define the "best" as teachers who are good at teaching people who are already clever. It's a depressing cesspit of moral corruption and you can't entirely blame it on entirely the teachers (who want the best income for their own children) or the parents (who want the best for their children even if it means cooperating in a system that is institutionally corrupt). The government should stop it. One thing that could be done is that selection could be outright banned. Streaming children within schools is sensible but selection is corruption if you ask me.

Also of course when it comes to Oxbridge the Private schools school their children specifically for Oxbridge. For example when I was at private school Oxford and Cambridge in an attempt to widen intake started becoming interested in looking for children who were more "rounded" with a "broader range of interests" so the school of course automatically introduced a range of compulsory extra-curricular activities... which is of course an oxymoron but in a system dreamed up by morons who cares. Oxbridge long ago was unable to decide who to select on exam results as most applicants all had A*s for everything so they invented insane interviews and difficult tests which are of course completely understood by the private sector who feed them most of their pupils so it's all nudge nudge wink wink but year on year the number of pupils going to Oxbridge from state schools decreases. At the same time inverted snobbery in the state sector prevents anyone even seriously suggesting it to their students. It's all incredibly depressing...
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by somegirlcalledea
However I also know that our local state schools are mostly filled with peoplw who dont want to learn as a result, e.g (for the fear of offending anyone Im sorry) I know someone who got 4Bs, 4Cs and 1A and was their highest achiever for that year. Whereas at my school you wouldnt even make the sixth form requirements and youre basically considered failing if you dont get A/A*.

In short I think it depends on whats available in your area which depends on the quality of the schools. Also I think going to a single sex school can be really useful- studies have shown boys learn differently to girls, in a single sex class there are less 'distractions' and people dont try to show off and theres generally quite an intense environment. Just my opinion though, sorry if it offended anyone :colondollar:

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See there's so much wrong with statements like this. I was never an A/A* student but I've had a well paid job drilling for oil and stuff for 19 years. I was actually told I was too stupid to do science at A level because the school didn't want to risk damaging its exam results - and I didn't get bad GCSEs. I didn't even get bad A levels going to 6th form college on my own. They weren't great but they were good enough to get me into a University. The system works for its own benefit not for anyone else's. Qualifications are just a set of keys that open some doors but really to succeed in life you only need to get a few doors open and keep pushing. No one's asked me what GCSE or A level results I got for years. They don't even ask what level of degree I got. In the workplace in the private sector you sell your skills ... but schools perpetuate this myth that if you don't get 11 A*s you're on the employment scrapheap. It just isn't so. Instead of education being about preparing everybody for the work force it's about ... how many of the few can pass the most difficult exams? Great ... but what about the rest of society?

Also there's no conclusive proof single sex schools are better - it's pseudo science. I went to a single sex school and it meant I had little knowlege of and was unable to properly relate to women for several years after I left. I think single sex education promotes misogynist ideas. It's another case of elevating education above everything else - including common sense. One day someone will look back and see segragated education for what it is ... segregation. When I left school one of the fill-in jobs I had was working in a golf club. I'm not kidding you in those days they literally had a white line in the bar that women were not allowed to cross. The women were only allowed to go round twice a week at stupid times while paying the same price as men. You looked round the place from the food to the decor and basically it was the simulation of someone's public school. You have to ask yourself why sex is such a deadly enemy to education.
Original post by MrAEMiller
See there's so much wrong with statements like this. I was never an A/A* student but I've had a well paid job drilling for oil and stuff for 19 years. I was actually told I was too stupid to do science at A level because the school didn't want to risk damaging its exam results - and I didn't get bad GCSEs. I didn't even get bad A levels going to 6th form college on my own. They weren't great but they were good enough to get me into a University. The system works for its own benefit not for anyone else's. Qualifications are just a set of keys that open some doors but really to succeed in life you only need to get a few doors open and keep pushing. No one's asked me what GCSE or A level results I got for years. They don't even ask what level of degree I got. In the workplace in the private sector you sell your skills ... but schools perpetuate this myth that if you don't get 11 A*s you're on the employment scrapheap. It just isn't so. Instead of education being about preparing everybody for the work force it's about ... how many of the few can pass the most difficult exams? Great ... but what about the rest of society?

I wholly agree, I help teach maths at my local high school and some kids struggle because they don't have the aptitude, regardless of teaching standards. The idea that everybody has enough academic talent with great to get A/A* is really near-sighted, and people are good at other things instead. Somebody who plays rugby with me (in a lower age group) busts a gut every lesson to try and learn and it doesn't work out half the time, but he makes me look like a total brick when he plays rugby and he's half my age.
(edited 9 years ago)
Private schools aren't that much better than state schools the only pros I can think about is possibly the smaller class sizes - which hasn't been that advantageous when my school tried it- the better school trips and maybe the possibility to network with the very rich.
I live in Scotland where I can say the state school system is fantastic and has been said by others to be of a high stanard. I have complete trust in what I'm learning and am a huge fan of the new qualification system and curriculum for execllence.
Honestly I don't know why anyone would chose not to go to a state school. The teaching standards are the same in state and private schools and if said otherwise it's either a one off or to tell the truth your class must be pretty badly behaved or talkative. I would know, over 5 members of my family including my mum are all teachers. For example our ex-depute head only a few years ago got the new job as head at Mary Erskine's in Edinburgh. We're also all sitting the same exams and learning the same information so our courses are really not different!
Many have this stereotype that state schools are rough. I personally live in an area where a large population of my school and town live in council funded accommodation and/ or parents and guardians are on benefits and never once has my education been affected. It's an urban myth private school parents make up when there kids want to go to state school where they socialise with normal children or in some cases the other gender. Let's face it as a girl all the boy's school boys I've met can't talk to girls! :wink: In truth it's not case many are very friendly and are good company and to be honest private schools have rich rough people as well! In some cases many are simply misunderstood and are extremely smart and kind. More so, in reality this are the people who will still been around when you leave school or go into adult live so being exposed to this type of behaviour is advantageous. In my opinion state schools allow diversity to thrive.
However it could just be in Scotland as my cousin went to private school down south and they used our state school resources and books, so maybe English state schools are worse? But Scotlands always on top, isn't it? Jk :wink:
Overall doesn't it show more about the drive and ambition of a person if all they needed to succeed was hard work and dedication? Not just he went to Eton so let's give him a job. *coughs* David Cameron and George Osborne *coughs*
Tbh, most of the time, parents send their kids to private school for the pastoral side of life as much as league tables. Small classes and teachers that actually know and care about you generally helps to create a more well rounded pupil. And private schools are often able to offer more extra curricular activities and qualifications than state schools.

I'm at a private all girls school and although my life is somewhat sheltered at the moment, I'm aware of that and I still know how to talk to guys and how the real world works. I would totally send my kids to the school I'm at now because it allows you to grow up without fears of conforming to stereotypes and lets you 'be who you want to be' (in the least cheesy way possible) :smile:
Original post by Livbish
Tbh, most of the time, parents send their kids to private school for the pastoral side of life as much as league tables. Small classes and teachers that actually know and care about you generally helps to create a more well rounded pupil. And private schools are often able to offer more extra curricular activities and qualifications than state schools.

I'm at a private all girls school and although my life is somewhat sheltered at the moment, I'm aware of that and I still know how to talk to guys and how the real world works. I would totally send my kids to the school I'm at now because it allows you to grow up without fears of conforming to stereotypes and lets you 'be who you want to be' (in the least cheesy way possible) :smile:


I have to laugh at the number of children on here who write like they are adults or at least 45 at 15. I sometimes cynically wonder if they're all children.

"more ... qualifications than state schools"

One of the most divisive things ever invented in the state sector was Double Award Science where biology, chemistry and physics instead of being separate subjects were rolled into "one course resulting in two GCSEs" etc and the various insane variants of this meaning that state school pupils are or were unable to specialise in biology, chemistry or physics at an early age and get a deep understanding of them if they wanted to study them at a higher level. Of course what should have happened is the state should have provided enough physics, chemistry and biology teachers to go round but the economic doing-it-on-the-cheap solution is to fudge the subjects together and claim that it's good for people who aren't that interested in science. No one would fudge French and German together and claim that's good for people who aren't that interested in speaking foreign.

However, the reality remains that for a long time in the 1980s state schools were priced out of being able to afford decent science teachers by the private sector creaming off the best with offers of more money and the state sector not putting the cash in.

I wouldn't kill yourself with guilt about going to a private school though. No one choses their parents who actually make the choice. And if you do feel guilty you can also run the "paying twice" arguement on yourself. The reality is that no one can outlaw private education. If you outlawed private schools the rich would just put their money into extra private tuition creating a black market that would be impossible to police. Why they get charity tax breaks though is completely beyond me. Education is just an industry and should be treated like any other industry.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by MrAEMiller
I have to laugh at the number of children on here who write like they are adults or at least 45 at 15. I sometimes cynically wonder if they're all children.

"more ... qualifications than state schools"

One of the most divisive things ever invented in the state sector was Double Award Science where biology, chemistry and physics instead of being separate subjects were rolled into "one course resulting in two GCSEs" etc and the various insane variants of this meaning that state school pupils are or were unable to specialise in biology, chemistry or physics at an early age and get a deep understanding of them if they wanted to study them at a higher level. Of course what should have happened is the state should have provided enough physics, chemistry and biology teachers to go round but the economic doing-it-on-the-cheap solution is to fudge the subjects together and claim that it's good for people who aren't that interested in science. No one would fudge French and German together and claim that's good for people who aren't that interested in speaking foreign.

However, the reality remains that for a long time in the 1980s state schools were priced out of being able to afford decent science teachers by the private sector creaming off the best with offers of more money and the state sector not putting the cash in.

I wouldn't kill yourself with guilt about going to a private school though. No one choses their parents who actually make the choice. And if you do feel guilty you can also run the "paying twice" arguement on yourself. The reality is that no one can outlaw private education. If you outlawed private schools the rich would just put their money into extra private tuition creating a black market that would be impossible to police. Why they get charity tax breaks though is completely beyond me. Education is just an industry and should be treated like any other industry.


With the more qualifications than state schools, I am actually talking about all the extra curricular stuff that private schools can offer, like I've done LAMDA, EPQ, ESB, Leiths etc. But yeah, you're right that it's all about the state sector not putting the cash in, and I guess thats why people choose to go private.
The pupils still have to put the work in, regardless of where they were educated. It. Just so happens, in many instances, that the individual needs of the pupils are more catered for within the private system.
Private school students should not be disadvantaged.

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