[bambamty]

Hey guys! recently started the gym (on saturday) and was wondering if i need to buy some supplements? Or is a good high protein diet enough? If so, what supplements shall i buy? Brands etc?

[Arcanine]

A solid diet is fine.

[bambamty]

So you wouldn't recommend protein powder or anything??


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[Scoobiedoobiedo]

(Original post by bambamty)
So you wouldn't recommend protein powder or anything??


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Depends on your diet.

[bambamty]

(Original post by Scoobiedoobiedo)
Depends on your diet.

That seems to be the unanimous response! I'll keep going for a few weeks, until the payday after next conveniently, and if I'm seeing results I'll consider purchasing supplements!


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[cid]

If you are a vegetarian a whey protein supplement would be useful a vegan ...*shudders* soy

But if you have an omnivorous diet you will be fine considering you say you are just starting out, even after some time supplements might not even be needed.

There are loads of different opinions on whether or not supplements are needed, when they are needed how often what type etc etc.

Give it a few months, decide what your goals are, once you have spent some time with routine and diet you will be in a better position to judge for yourself whether or not you think you need any supplements.

Otherwise you might waste your money.

[bambamty]

Thanks for the help guys! I think I'll stick to a solid diet for a few months, then try supplements, see if I notice a difference!


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[sconter]

(Original post by bambamty)
That seems to be the unanimous response! I'll keep going for a few weeks, until the payday after next conveniently, and if I'm seeing results I'll consider purchasing supplements!


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in a few weeks your lifts will go up suddenly and then stop and your glycogen stores will increase making muscle look bigger.

not something to base your success off.

protein powder is a food, not a magic suppliment, it wont increase your lifts or make you bigger. it is there if your diet is lacking.

[sconter]

(Original post by Banishingboredom)
There was a Panorama episode that showed that supplements do **** all. All the excess protein is excreted anyway. Just make sure you're eating plenty of chicken breast and if you really need a boost egg whites are pure protein.

actually it clearly stated that creatine and caffeine have been proven to increase performance. only morons think protein powder with 'increase' performance in the same way, it isnt a waste if your diet is lacking in protein.

[MRH94]

See how much protein you're getting from your diet and then see i you need the extra protein from shakes

[Mark85]

(Original post by bambamty)
So you wouldn't recommend protein powder or anything??

(Whey) Protein powder is essentially just very concentrated milk. In particular - it is just a food. If you start thinking about things like this, it becomes much easier to answer questions like this because you are effectively saying

"Do you recommend milk/cheese/eggs?"

They are just an individual food. Most people are shooting for a certain amount of calories (including certain amounts of carbs, protein and fats) and aim to do so in such a way that they also get as much of the vitamins and minerals they need by taking in as varied a diet as possible.

In that context, protein powders are convinience foods - convenient since they are portable and (normally) pretty easy to get down you.

[Jonnyy]

Some supplements i'd recommend are: Protein, Creatine, Multivitamins, Fish oils (o3/o6) and vitamin D3.

[Mark85]

(Original post by Jonnyy)
Some supplements i'd recommend are: Protein, Creatine, Multivitamins, Fish oils (o3/o6) and vitamin D3.

...and here are some sources preferable to artificial supplementation:

Protein - Meat/Poultry/Fish/Dairy/Beans/Pulses
Creatine - Beef
Multivitamins - Fruit and vegetables
Fish oils (o3/o6) - Oily Fish
Vitamin D3 - Sunshine

[Jonnyy]

(Original post by Mark85)
...and here are some sources preferable to artificial supplementation:

Protein - Meat/Poultry/Fish/Dairy/Beans/Pulses
Creatine - Beef
Multivitamins - Fruit and vegetables
Fish oils (o3/o6) - Oily Fish
Vitamin D3 - Sunshine

Supplements - The idea is that the supplement your diet (funnily enough), they are not to be used as the base of your diet, even though I didn't suggest this.

Protein - Considering a standard chicken breast has around 20g of protein in, the equivalent of 10 chicken breasts isn't really ideal to meet my protein needs, seeing as I can get the equivalent of two chicken breasts in one protein shake.

Creatine - LOL, are you aware the creatine content in meat is stupidly low? 0.5g per 100g of beef for instance..... Taking 5g in the morning with a drink is much more preferable than eating 1kg of beef no?

In regards to the vitamins/fish, yes you can get these from eating normally but as they are so cheap why not take them as a safeguard?

[Mark85]

(Original post by Jonnyy)
Supplements - The idea is that the supplement your diet (funnily enough), they are not to be used as the base of your diet, even though I didn't suggest this.

...and the idea of dietary supplements is to supplement deficiencies in your diet. Before ****ing around with that - why not just get a good balanced diet in the first place? Unless you are suffering from serious deficiencies then most vitamin/mineral tablets are pointless.

(Original post by Jonnyy)
Protein - Considering a standard chicken breast has around 20g of protein in, the equivalent of 10 chicken breasts isn't really ideal to meet my protein needs, seeing as I can get the equivalent of two chicken breasts in one protein shake.

That is one small chicken breast. Try adding in eggs and bacon for breakfast two tins of tuna and some mince. Protein shakes can be a convinience but I would still rather get as much protein from regular dietary sources as possible.

(Original post by Jonnyy)
Creatine - LOL, are you aware the creatine content in meat is stupidly low? 0.5g per 100g of beef for instance..... Taking 5g in the morning with a drink is much more preferable than eating 1kg of beef no?

I'm not convinced about the need to take in higher levels of creatine than that the body synthesises from a normal high protein diet.

(Original post by Jonnyy)
In regards to the vitamins/fish, yes you can get these from eating normally but as they are so cheap why not take them as a safeguard?

Because it seems so pointless. I'm not experiencing any symptoms of deficiency and would seem to get what I need from normal diet. What if the pills actually make things worse? Maybe they are harder on your liver and kidneys.

[Jonnyy]

(Original post by Mark85)
...and the idea of dietary supplements is to supplement deficiencies in your diet. Before ****ing around with that - why not just get a good balanced diet in the first place? Unless you are suffering from serious deficiencies then most vitamin/mineral tablets are pointless.

[/QUOTE]

LOL, do you think anybody is seriously deficient in protein?? Especially those who are aware of its importance for muscle building. A good balanced diet, why is 'a good diet' and drinking protein mutually exclusive?! Surely protein supplementation can be incorporated into a 'good diet', jesus.

You make it sound like it is noticable to recognise how depleted you are of vitamins! The fact is, people take multis and Vit D3 to ensure adequate vitamin intake.

(Original post by Mark85)
That is one small chicken breast. Try adding in eggs and bacon for breakfast two tins of tuna and some mince. Protein shakes can be a convinience but I would still rather get as much protein from regular dietary sources as possible.

Actually I took the protein from a standard tesco chicken breast (100g) which isnt the smallest portion.... Furthermore, when bulking why stuff yourself with 'good diet foods' when I can have some of that and my protein shake, again the two are not mutually exclusive.

(Original post by Mark85)
I'm not convinced about the need to take in higher levels of creatine than that the body synthesises from a normal high protein diet.

Please research the benefits of creatine supplementation lol, its probably the supplement I would recommend the most due to its cheap price and benefits.

(Original post by Mark85)
Because it seems so pointless. I'm not experiencing any symptoms of deficiency and would seem to get what I need from normal diet. What if the pills actually make things worse? Maybe they are harder on your liver and kidneys.

Oh lawd.

[Anavyssos]

What began as a legitimate question seems to have descended into an argument. As someone with experience in this area, I feel I can and should offer some good advice. I have done endless research and taken some of the main supplements myself. I shall try to get quickly to the point.

So, should you buy supplements? As you’re just starting out, no. They’re expensive and the benefit to you would not outweigh the negatives of the price. Concentrate on changing your diet and finding an exercise routine that suits your body and your time frame. Drink plenty of water and get plenty of sleep. Arnie is famous for getting at least 8 hours a night.

What should your diet be? High protein (no more than 200g is necessary), low GI carbs and low saturated fat. Eat within one hour after exercise, and eat regular small meals. Take the time to figure out how you’re going to do it and plan – don’t do it ad hoc because you will fail. Protein powders are, as people have said, a meal replacement drink which can be good when you don’t have the time or inclination to cook. Bulk buy and check the per serving price. Try not to pay more than 30p per 20g of protein. 3 eggs have 21g of protein and from supermarkets will cost as little as 24p for 3, when bought in bulk. A multi-vitamin is also good idea, mainly because they’re incredibly cheap and can aid you when your diet might not be quite up to scratch. Make sure it’s got zinc in it. As you progress, add some flaxseed to give you omega 3, 6 and 9 in a natural form, which will also include good fats and protein. It is MUCH more cost effective to buy flaxseed rather than isolated capsules. Look at the grams to see why.

So when might it be worth buying supplements? The two that work are creatine and caffeine. If you want to, have a cup of coffee before working out to increase concentration. If you’re feeling like you don’t really want to work out, caffeine can be a good persuader. It can also slightly aid fat burning.

Creatine. Once you start working out you’ll soon come across it, and wonder if you should take it. I’m not going to go into the science of it, but whether it ‘works’ or is ‘effective’ is not up for debate. It makes you stronger, and that is useful for people who lift weights. Use it as a ‘boost’ to push past a plateau. You’ll find as you lift more and more you’ll hit a point you can’t break past, and that’s when creatine will get you through it. Once you have done, come off it, or you won’t be able to get that boost effect again.

The rest of the supplements, such as HMB, ZMA, BCAAs, CLA and Nitric Oxide to name a few, are very expensive and will have little to no effect. Read the positive reviews people give to see they have started taking them the very day they change their diet, increase their exercise and start taking creatine.
I hope this helps. Do your research, then go out and buy some chicken and eggs.

[bambamty]

(Original post by Anavyssos)
What began as a legitimate question seems to have descended into an argument. As someone with experience in this area, I feel I can and should offer some good advice. I have done endless research and taken some of the main supplements myself. I shall try to get quickly to the point.

So, should you buy supplements? As you’re just starting out, no. They’re expensive and the benefit to you would not outweigh the negatives of the price. Concentrate on changing your diet and finding an exercise routine that suits your body and your time frame. Drink plenty of water and get plenty of sleep. Arnie is famous for getting at least 8 hours a night.

What should your diet be? High protein (no more than 200g is necessary), low GI carbs and low saturated fat. Eat within one hour after exercise, and eat regular small meals. Take the time to figure out how you’re going to do it and plan – don’t do it ad hoc because you will fail. Protein powders are, as people have said, a meal replacement drink which can be good when you don’t have the time or inclination to cook. Bulk buy and check the per serving price. Try not to pay more than 30p per 20g of protein. 3 eggs have 21g of protein and from supermarkets will cost as little as 24p for 3, when bought in bulk. A multi-vitamin is also good idea, mainly because they’re incredibly cheap and can aid you when your diet might not be quite up to scratch. Make sure it’s got zinc in it. As you progress, add some flaxseed to give you omega 3, 6 and 9 in a natural form, which will also include good fats and protein. It is MUCH more cost effective to buy flaxseed rather than isolated capsules. Look at the grams to see why.

So when might it be worth buying supplements? The two that work are creatine and caffeine. If you want to, have a cup of coffee before working out to increase concentration. If you’re feeling like you don’t really want to work out, caffeine can be a good persuader. It can also slightly aid fat burning.

Creatine. Once you start working out you’ll soon come across it, and wonder if you should take it. I’m not going to go into the science of it, but whether it ‘works’ or is ‘effective’ is not up for debate. It makes you stronger, and that is useful for people who lift weights. Use it as a ‘boost’ to push past a plateau. You’ll find as you lift more and more you’ll hit a point you can’t break past, and that’s when creatine will get you through it. Once you have done, come off it, or you won’t be able to get that boost effect again.

The rest of the supplements, such as HMB, ZMA, BCAAs, CLA and Nitric Oxide to name a few, are very expensive and will have little to no effect. Read the positive reviews people give to see they have started taking them the very day they change their diet, increase their exercise and start taking creatine.
I hope this helps. Do your research, then go out and buy some chicken and eggs.

I've even resorted to un-watching my own question! And cheers for the help! Im currently writing out a food diary, so I can work out where I can get more protein into my diet!


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[Anavyssos]

Excellent idea, be sure to write down the calorie, protein, carb, fat and sat fat content of each food, and keep track of your fruit and veg intake. 3-5 is good, but just a banana and apple spaced throughout the day is fine if you can't manage it - I always struggle to get 5! Although multi-vitamins are good, you can't beat food for the real deal. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but keep a detailed exercise diary too, writing the date, type of workout, sets, reps and weights of each exercise, and then a small 'notes' section. I find this to be the most important, because I'll soon forget how the routine went. I use it to note down whether I should use heavier or lighter weights for a particular exercise, whether I liked the routine and what I would change. The next time I come to exercise I rely on it to remind me whether to repeat what I did before, or to change things around a little. Plus you can track your progress over time, and within a month you'll look back and wonder how you were so weak!

[Mark85]

(Original post by Jonnyy)
LOL, do you think anybody is seriously deficient in protein?? Especially those who are aware of its importance for muscle building. A good balanced diet, why is 'a good diet' and drinking protein mutually exclusive?! Surely protein supplementation can be incorporated into a 'good diet', jesus.

Most people aren't seriously deficient in protein. It isn't hard to get a decent amount from a fairly normal diet. Yes, protein supplementation can be a useful convenience but my priority would always be to get what I can from normal diet and worry about supplementing it later.

(Original post by Jonnyy)
You make it sound like it is noticable to recognise how depleted you are of vitamins! The fact is, people take multis and Vit D3 to ensure adequate vitamin intake.

Of course it can be noticable to recognise vitamin and mineral deficiencies. For instance, I am pretty sure that I have never suffered from Rickets. If anything, should I be popping supplementary vitamins all the time, I would be more at risk of hypervitaminosis than deficiency.

(Original post by Jonnyy)
Actually I took the protein from a standard tesco chicken breast (100g) which isnt the smallest portion.... Furthermore, when bulking why stuff yourself with 'good diet foods' when I can have some of that and my protein shake, again the two are not mutually exclusive.

Small sandwiches aside, most people eat more than 100g of chicken/meat for a meal portion. 100g is less than a quarter pound! I and many others would be eating more along the lines of 200-250g portions. I also maintain that 100g chicken breasts are very small and would say that the average is closer to 150g.

In fact, if you don't believe me look here. Three standard Tesco chicken breasts at an average weight of 144g. I would be eating two of they bastards...

(Original post by Jonnyy)
Please research the benefits of creatine supplementation lol, its probably the supplement I would recommend the most due to its cheap price and benefits.

I know about creatine. I would say that from everything I have read, the effects are pretty mild at best. I concede that it is generally pretty cheap but still - it is one of the minor details I would play around with once I had made sure all of the more important basic **** was in order.