[Lady Maleficent]

delete

[Nephilim]

No.

[monk_keys]

You are about to sit the 'Are you a racist?' exam

[Podcaster]

(Original post by monk_keys)
You are about to sit the 'Are you a racist?' exam

'Question one: How often did you cross the road on the way to the exam facility?'

[Land of Nod]

Of course. And not only that, but people with incompatible beliefs should also be made to leave the country, in order to have a nation only of decent folks.

I also have a suggestion about the first page of the "Are you racist?" exam: Click for suggestion

[Clare~Bear]

Yes. Why should we let someone into our country who's going to use the NHS and other services they may never pay for if they can't get a job, especially if they think most/ a large part of the population is scum and should burn in hell.

If I was them, I'd prefer to stay in a country that supports such backwards rules and punishes people for breaking them.

[carpe diem 123]

Yes. People that come to a country and seek to impose their own ignorant and damaging views should never be allowed to enter, or place their children in schools here.

[dem503]

(Original post by Lady Maleficent)
I am not necessarily referring to religion, but people who openly admit to or have history of racism, homophobia, etc.So if it is established that an element of someone's belief is incompatible with overall social standards - should that affect the immigration process?

From a completely neutral and relative stand point- obviously not. To limit one set of beliefs is akin to just promoting one set of beliefs. No matter how relevant that particular set of beliefs is to the population, we know where only promoting one way of thinking leads to.

However, there is actually a case for not letting people in because they have particular beliefs. It is for the same reason that theft and murder is not permitted- although you are free to do whatever you want (if you enjoy a spot of murdering!) you cannot do anything that infringes the rights/freedoms of other people.

Now if someone tried to enter a country and announced 'My beliefs say that I have to sacrifice a human once a week, I am coming to your country so I have the freedom to do this'. You might say this is not realistic, but this person would not be able to enter the country because of his beliefs (he could be a great person who has given £1bn to charity but his beliefs rather rule him out of society), something that many people here are saying should not be allowed.

For this reason Holland is starting to stop immigration into its green pastures based on religion. Its not that they disagree with the religion, its not that they are trying to get rid of religion in their lands, but rather they recognise its problems; religions fight with one another. There is a simmering tension in Holland (to be fair, not in Amsterdam) because of religion- mostly due to an influx of Muslims into a country that is still for the most part conservative Christian. It has not spilled out into widespread violence; yet. That is what the government is trying to avoid. There have however been some unsavoury incidents. (They are also working hard to educate its population in terms of love and tolerance, and for some reason a majority of the young population are turning away from Christianity....)

So to sum up, rejecting someone from coming into the country based on their beliefs might sound like a bad thing at first, but if their beliefs will go against the established society and cause upset it can be justifiable.

[py0alb]

How about we just see if they can stay within the law and then deport them if not?

[daisydaffodil]

No - but we should have a system like Australia whereby people enter the country on the basis of what they can bring and what we can gain.

I do understand that there are vast amounts of people entering countries due to problems in their own countries but realistically we can't be expected to house every refugee or similar person - moving people away from the zone of problems will not benefit anyone, working in the zone to restore peace, making it a more suitable place to live *will* benefit people.

[py0alb]

(Original post by daisydaffodil)
No - but we should have a system like Australia whereby people enter the country on the basis of what they can bring and what we can gain.

I do understand that there are vast amounts of people entering countries due to problems in their own countries but realistically we can't be expected to house every refugee or similar person - moving people away from the zone of problems will not benefit anyone, working in the zone to restore peace, making it a more suitable place to live *will* benefit people.

We already do... A points based system was introduced in 2008

[daisydaffodil]

(Original post by py0alb)
We already do... A points based system was introduced in 2008

Oh.. Ah well I probably need to read up on it a bit then!

[Pastaferian]

(Original post by Lady Maleficent)
I am not necessarily referring to religion, but people who openly admit to or have history of racism, homophobia, etc.So if it is established that an element of someone's belief is incompatible with overall social standards - should that affect the immigration process?

Immigrants are more likely to suffer from racism than to inflict on the rest of us.

[Clare~Bear]

(Original post by py0alb)
How about we just see if they can stay within the law and then deport them if not?

yes but then if they marry an english person or have a pet cat, we can't then deport them!

[The Polymath]

(Original post by Lady Maleficent)
I am not necessarily referring to religion, but people who openly admit to or have history of racism, homophobia, etc.So if it is established that an element of someone's belief is incompatible with overall social standards - should that affect the immigration process?

Hmm. So let's say I'm a bigot, racist and homophobe. I'll just LIE you can't tell what people's beliefs are. Sure, some people currently are quite open about their views, but tell people that they must have certain views to live in a country and they'll lie. Note how many jews pretended not to be jewish during the holocaust. Your idea reminds me of that, to be honest.

[Parzival]

(Original post by dem503)
From a completely neutral and relative stand point- obviously not. To limit one set of beliefs is akin to just promoting one set of beliefs. No matter how relevant that particular set of beliefs is to the population, we know where only promoting one way of thinking leads to.

However, there is actually a case for not letting people in because they have particular beliefs. It is for the same reason that theft and murder is not permitted- although you are free to do whatever you want (if you enjoy a spot of murdering!) you cannot do anything that infringes the rights/freedoms of other people.

Now if someone tried to enter a country and announced 'My beliefs say that I have to sacrifice a human once a week, I am coming to your country so I have the freedom to do this'. You might say this is not realistic, but this person would not be able to enter the country because of his beliefs (he could be a great person who has given £1bn to charity but his beliefs rather rule him out of society), something that many people here are saying should not be allowed.

For this reason Holland is starting to stop immigration into its green pastures based on religion. Its not that they disagree with the religion, its not that they are trying to get rid of religion in their lands, but rather they recognise its problems; religions fight with one another. There is a simmering tension in Holland (to be fair, not in Amsterdam) because of religion- mostly due to an influx of Muslims into a country that is still for the most part conservative Christian. It has not spilled out into widespread violence; yet. That is what the government is trying to avoid. There have however been some unsavoury incidents. (They are also working hard to educate its population in terms of love and tolerance, and for some reason a majority of the young population are turning away from Christianity....)

So to sum up, rejecting someone from coming into the country based on their beliefs might sound like a bad thing at first, but if their beliefs will go against the established society and cause upset it can be justifiable.

People can lie about their religion, can't they?

[Clare~Bear]

(Original post by Junaid96)
Hmm. So let's say I'm a bigot, racist and homophobe. I'll just LIE you can't tell what people's beliefs are. Sure, some people currently are quite open about their views, but tell people that they must have certain views to live in a country and they'll lie. Note how many jews pretended not to be jewish during the holocaust. Your idea reminds me of that, to be honest.

(Original post by Parzival)
People can lie about their religion, can't they?

True, but if you were that bothered by gay people etc, then aren't you likely to be more of a hardcore religious person who isn't going to lie incase they don't then get their 20 virgins/ go to heaven or whatever, because they denied god?

[Parzival]

(Original post by Clare~Bear)
True, but if you were that bothered by gay people etc, then aren't you likely to be more of a hardcore religious person who isn't going to lie incase they don't then get their 20 virgins in heaven or whatever, because they denied god?

You don't have to be a Muslim or even a hardcore Muslim to be a homophobe or a racist (Eastern Europeans are not particularly religious and yet, homophobia is not non-existent in many EE countries). So if the goal is to prevent homophobic or racist immigrants from entering the country, you'd fail spectacularly. Now if your goal is to prevent hardcore Muslims from entering the country, you may achieve something though I have no knowledge of Islam and I don't therefore know how easy is it to later repent for your "sins" (denouncing God to avoid grinding poverty and misery in your home country) and receive salvation, etc (this is certainly true in Christianity)

[Clare~Bear]

(Original post by Parzival)
You don't have to be a Muslim or even a hardcore Muslim to be a homophobe or a racist (Eastern Europeans are not particularly religious and yet, homophobia is not non-existent in many EE countries). So if the goal is to prevent homophobic or racist immigrants from entering the country, you'd fail spectacularly. Now if your goal is to prevent hardcore Muslims from entering the country, you may achieve something though I have no knowledge of Islam and I don't therefore know how easy is it to later repent for your "sins" (denouncing God to avoid grinding poverty and misery in your home country) and receive salvation, etc (this is certainly true in Christianity)

I never mentioned Islam, but it could apply to any religion.

[The Polymath]

(Original post by Clare~Bear)
True, but if you were that bothered by gay people etc, then aren't you likely to be more of a hardcore religious person who isn't going to lie incase they don't then get their 20 virgins/ go to heaven or whatever, because they denied god?

Nah my guess is that you can lie in order to infiltrate a country and spread the word of God